Friends after FIRE

[Markola]

My brother (2 yrs older) retired 5 yrs ago at 60. He was visiting a few years ago and asked me "when the **** are you going to retire??"

I told him well, I'm really in no hurry...

* I've been self-employed and semi-retired (working no more than 30-40%) for many years.
* Some people want to retire because they hate their job or hate their boss. I don't have either one, and I enjoy the work I do.
* Some people want to retire so they can start traveling, etc. I would love that, but sadly I've been single for 10 yrs, and I really don't enjoy traveling by myself. I would definitely make different choices if I had a partner to play with.
* So if I didn't have any work, I would probably just park my butt in front of the computer more than I already do!
* I'll be comfortable financially when I do retire, but it's sure nice to have the extra income in the meantime. Especially since part of the "comfortable" calculation is Social Security (I fully vest in 2.5 yrs) and a modest inheritance from my mother (probably within a year or less). And I'm trying to minimize burning through my funds so I can pass most of it to my sons, who will need it worse than I will.

So I totally understand y'all who want to FIRE as soon as possible. For me, though, it makes sense to keep "working" (30-40%) for a while longer. With all the free time & etc I already have, I feel almost retired anyway.

You make a solid case for why you should keep working. Good for you. It’s a tough case to make to an early retirement forum though!

 

[WWDog]

I didn't know about this forum before I retired. I just did it on my own. When I retired from the service I set out to determine when I could really retire. I made a spread sheet and tracked all my assets and everything I owed. When I didn't owe anything I tracked my expenses verses what was coming in. When I had a bit more coming in than going out I looked at what would be coming in verses going out in retirement. When incoming in retirement was a bit more than going out, I retired.


I have told that to many former coworkers who have adapted that strategy when they asked how I did it. One friend in particular (since the 6th grade) was astounded when he found out he couldn't quit work like he thought he could. He changed his whole approach and employment to rectify the situation. He is now retired and safe in his finances and is an even closer friend for life.


A cousin of mine couldn't believe I was retired at age at 51 and remarked that I would be back working in a few years. I'm still here living a good retirement.


I had a coworker shortly before I retired ask me to run through his computer program to assess when I could retire. I didn't give him the real numbers (less than they really were). After running his program, he said I was beyond ready to retire. I think he was trying to set me up for some costly guidance.


I have found that I was truly more than prepared. I make more in retirement now than I did when I was working. I also do it in low risk investments (nothing in the market). The kids will be very happy when they get their inheritance.

 

[Kimo]

This was so easy for both my wife and I, all we say is we are working today on whatever we feel like working on....or we won't work, ask me tomorrow.......


enjoy!!!!!

 

[Free]

Thank you for asking the question. I had maybe a dozen close longtime friends around my age when I retired at 60 about 5 years ago. Only one couple is retired, the others are still working. While they are all still friends, some are a bit more distant.

One of the things that most of us had in common was that we didn't enjoy our work and longed for the life in retirement. I still socialize on occasion with most of them, but inevitably the conversation at some point gets to "what do you spend time doing in retirement?" My response the first year was "anything I want". I've toned it down a bit now and say "I keep busy".

It was a wake up for me and hard to understand that a few friends didn't feel that we had as much in common after I retired. I worked hard and did the LBYM most of my adult life. I started with very humble beginnings and paid my own way. 80 hour work weeks at times during my career were not uncommon. I FIRED a few years before I retired, but couldn't handle the stress of the job anymore.

I had a younger neighbor move in who used to work for me at the University when she was a student. Had not seen her in years. She's now got 4 kids. Her first comment to me when she found out I'd retired was "Congratulations, you certainly earned it". I took it as a complement and have always appreciated her honest comment.

I don't post much to this forum, but this topic has confounded me for a while. I never anticipated the distancing by some close friends.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Thank you for asking the question. I had maybe a dozen close longtime friends around my age when I retired at 60 about 5 years ago. Only one couple is retired, the others are still working. While they are all still friends, some are a bit more distant.



One of the things that most of us had in common was that we didn't enjoy our work and longed for the life in retirement. I still socialize on occasion with most of them, but inevitably the conversation at some point gets to "what do you spend time doing in retirement?" My response the first year was "anything I want". I've toned it down a bit now and say "I keep busy".



It was a wake up for me and hard to understand that a few friends didn't feel that we had as much in common after I retired. I worked hard and did the LBYM most of my adult life. I started with very humble beginnings and paid my own way. 80 hour work weeks at times during my career were not uncommon. I FIRED a few years before I retired, but couldn't handle the stress of the job anymore.



I had a younger neighbor move in who used to work for me at the University when she was a student. Had not seen her in years. She's now got 4 kids. Her first comment to me when she found out I'd retired was "Congratulations, you certainly earned it". I took it as a complement and have always appreciated her honest comment.



I don't post much to this forum, but this topic has confounded me for a while. I never anticipated the distancing by some close friends.

I think what you may have had in common with your working friends was that you hated work. You no longer share that common experience. Thus, the distancing is to be expected.

 

[tenant13]

Gary, With respect to your point 3, about not wanting to travel alone: have you tried it? I have had some of the greatest experiences of my life traveling alone. You meet more people, I think. I actually prefer to travel alone, now.

I couldn’t agree more. It’s the most amazing discovery I made in my life. Frankly, if it wasn’t for the solo travel I would have been working and not really thinking about RE despite the boatload of money I made on the market. I quit as soon I realized I can just pack a carry on, buy a one way ticket somewhere, go and enjoy every day like it’s a the best day of my life.

 

[Perryinva]

I was lucky. I worked where most everyone I knew had pensions and most enjoyed the work. Plenty of people retired younger than me. I always felt “Congrats! Well done”, though typically they either had a wealthy background so long term savings wasn’t an issue (one single guy friend inherited $20M from his parents, and he was already worth $15M with a $75k/yr pension and max SS and zero debt. And he still worked until 62 because he liked the work. Most of us for years told him he was crazy to work even before his last parent passed and he moved in to their home at 50 to take care of them the last years. ) or their spouse was still working making very good income. We all had work sponsored HC pre Medicare. So no friends ever were resentful.

Ironically, I was the go to guy for financial questions in our group, especially SS, taxes & retirement income and I SUCK at it compared to this group!!! But compared to the other engineers I worked with, I was the freaking Shell Answer Man! That is how clueless SO many people are, so most of the comments here I can totally relate to. I have never LBYM, I just never LAYM and always paid myself first. I didn’t get serious about retirement until I was in my 40’s. It just never occurred to me. Early retirement didn’t occur to me until I was mid 50’s when it became apparent that after retirement net income could easily exceed net working revenue once the portfolio had grown to a certain size coupled with pensions and SS. I never had a $40k/mo income or lifestyle and certainly was never going to inherit a ton, so when I reached my easy comfort level of about $10k/mo and every raise and bonus from then on simply went to savings, it took very few years to see the writing on the wall that post retirement net income would easily exceed after savings income with no FICA/MED by a few thousand a month. Why work? While enjoyable enough, I had done it for 39 years, and you can’t buy time. It wasn’t THAT much fun!!!

The last few years while working our supervisor got obsessed with personal finance and life choices, and ended each weekly meeting with a short segment from books he had read. After a year or so, where only a few of us really participated in the discussion meaningfully, he asked me if I was interested in maybe doing a few presentations of what I had learned. I was more a practical math guy but really did enjoy the stuff. He retired at 65, but from a very poor family background so from his point if view he retired early and very wealthy.

Like I said, it really was eye opening how many people not only were ignorant of the concepts, but also had no interest in learning either!!! Plenty of friends were w*rking to 68-70 “just make sure” and had never done the math. I mean, HOW IN THE WORLD does anyone DO that

Only my younger brother is a little put off that we are both retired, as they will work likely forever after making about every bad financial decision there is. Two of my younger sisters are retired but both husbands still work so IMHO, that’s not the same thing at all.

 

[seraphim]

I never really discussed it with anyone. If someone asks, I just say I’m retired. If they make any other comment, I just say, We we’re fortunate. Doesn’t sound like we were bragging, but gives them no information and they ca rationalize it themselves. Wonder how many people think I won the lottery? Lol

 

[seraphim]

And in all fairness, retiring while friends are working changed the dynamics of the relationship. There’s no longer a common thread in that area of life. We have more time to travel and are away from friends and family. So if they ask you what you did today, and you reply ‘enjoyed the mountain scenery’, yes it’s awkward, even among the best of friends.

 

[flyingaway]

And in all fairness, retiring while friends are working changed the dynamics of the relationship. There’s no longer a common thread in that area of life. We have more time to travel and are away from friends and family. So if they ask you what you did today, and you reply ‘enjoyed the mountain scenery’, yes it’s awkward, even among the best of friends.

I told my wife that if we retire, we have to move to a different place. In our current place, most of our friends are 5 to 7 years older than we are, and they do not plan to retire any time soon.

 

[flyingaway]

My brother (2 yrs older) retired 5 yrs ago at 60. He was visiting a few years ago and asked me "when the **** are you going to retire??"

I told him well, I'm really in no hurry...

* I've been self-employed and semi-retired (working no more than 30-40%) for many years.
* Some people want to retire because they hate their job or hate their boss. I don't have either one, and I enjoy the work I do.
* Some people want to retire so they can start traveling, etc. I would love that, but sadly I've been single for 10 yrs, and I really don't enjoy traveling by myself. I would definitely make different choices if I had a partner to play with.
* So if I didn't have any work, I would probably just park my butt in front of the computer more than I already do!
* I'll be comfortable financially when I do retire, but it's sure nice to have the extra income in the meantime. Especially since part of the "comfortable" calculation is Social Security (I fully vest in 2.5 yrs) and a modest inheritance from my mother (probably within a year or less). And I'm trying to minimize burning through my funds so I can pass most of it to my sons, who will need it worse than I will.

So I totally understand y'all who want to FIRE as soon as possible. For me, though, it makes sense to keep "working" (30-40%) for a while longer. With all the free time & etc I already have, I feel almost retired anyway.

Maybe you should travel and find a partner during the travel. You can meet more people outside than in your own home. It would be much more difficult to find a partner when you get old. That makes a more compelling case for retiring early if you can financially.

 

[MichaelB]

I told my wife that [-]if[/-] when we retire, we have to move to a different place. In our current place, most of our friends are 5 to 7 years older than we are, and they do not plan to retire any time soon.

Fixed it for you.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

These days, we have friends now that still work because they have to, some because they want to, many that are retired, some pretty rich and some not so much. For me it seems like it is not really a who is working and who is not issue, it is more avoiding the people who have the "it is not enough that I succeed all others must fail" (or at least have less than me) kind of attitude. Fortunately these people tend to find each other and hang out together, so are generally easy to spot and avoid. The ones who are still working and are resentful of those who are not working are the ones we've learned to avoid. Also the ones who are retired but seem upset that we retired much earlier than they did are also good ones to avoid. One common thread with these types is they are usually braggarts. I also suspect many are what TMND would label as income but not balance sheet affluent.

 

[kgtest]

Well if it's anything like while accumulating I have basically 3 friend groups in terms of the "retirement" scope...

Friend1: I hope you are saving a little for later (after they see us make a big purchase)
Friend2: Nobody cares to hear about investing or money
Friend3: Says nothing, crickets.


Who cares where they end up financially, but I hope we all remain friends.

 

[Vaca]

One of the lessons I have learned in life is that there are people who may be friends, even close friends - as long as they perceive they are in a better "state" than you, or that you are as miserable as they are. As soon as they see you as having an advantage or being happy, the friendship can wane.

I am not surprised by the OP's experience. It has happened to us, well before FIRE. The majority of our friends have evolved to those who are happy for our successes and are a support for our troubles, just as we try to do for them. The saying "those who mind do not matter, those who matter do not mind" rings true.

The only thing we do... is nothing. We do not talk about our FIRE situation, as it can be interpreted as bragging. We just live and enjoy our lives. There may be hope for the long run...a few of these friends who faded away at first returned to closeness after time went on, admitting that they were focusing too much on their jealousy instead of taking care of their own situation.

So true. I meet a new "friend" when I was near rock bottom. I never understood how she was a decent friend during the worst phase of my life but changed when my life started improving. I tried to work it out with her but I had to end the relationship because she was intolerable. I was always told true friends stick with you during the bad time but when things finally started turning around for me, she turned more frenemy than friend. When I told my other friends, they said she was a petty and jealous person and they were glad I'm not friends with her anymore. They didn't never said anything to me even though they didn't like her.

 

[TimeMeasure]

The thin end of any bell curve can be a lonely place.

Very aptly put. Applies to a lot in life.

Becoming FI and RE didn’t so much change the nature of friendships, as throw into stark relief what one knows on some level anyway: That many of the “friendships” of everyday life in the working world are situational, and a friendship that alters, when it alteration finds, is perhaps not real friendship. True friends are rare. We all know this, but a change in circumstances highlights it.

Leading up to FI/RE, and afterwards, I’ve been investing effort into reconnecting with a very small number of old, true friends. There is a kind of unguardedness, openness, which is possible with the old friends of youth, and which is more difficult to attain with people met later in life.

With true friends, one’s FI/RE status is so irrelevant that it never becomes the primary focus, except inasmuch as it is part of the emotional landscape. Jealousy doesn’t enter in. It is precious to be able to talk, really talk, with someone who really know you, and you in turn know deeply. Heard an evocative Chinese song recently to this effect, basically “the voice of one who truly knows you is very rare.” Focusing on that exchange of true voices is one of the valuable parts of living.

 

[Amethyst]

What a beautifully written post.

Very aptly put. Applies to a lot in life.

Becoming FI and RE didn’t so much change the nature of friendships, as throw into stark relief what one knows on some level anyway: That many of the “friendships” of everyday life in the working world are situational, and a friendship that alters, when it alteration finds, is perhaps not real friendship. True friends are rare. We all know this, but a change in circumstances highlights it.

Leading up to FI/RE, and afterwards, I’ve been investing effort into reconnecting with a very small number of old, true friends. There is a kind of unguardedness, openness, which is possible with the old friends of youth, and which is more difficult to attain with people met later in life.

With true friends, one’s FI/RE status is so irrelevant that it never becomes the primary focus, except inasmuch as it is part of the emotional landscape. Jealousy doesn’t enter in. It is precious to be able to talk, really talk, with someone who really know you, and you in turn know deeply. Heard an evocative Chinese song recently to this effect, basically “the voice of one who truly knows you is very rare.” Focusing on that exchange of true voices is one of the valuable parts of living.

 

[davidfin]

RE in 2012

My transition to retirement was pretty easy. As an avid golfer and member of a golf club, my circle of friends was pretty well established. Most were already or close to retirement themselves. Retirement and investment discussions are common topics on the tee box. Plus we had a huge common interest - golf. My other circle of friends consist of former colleagues. Many I’d worked with for years, vacationed with or coupled international businesses trips with a few days of exploring the country we were in. This group takes a bit more work to keep together but the rewards are tremendous. We moved from monthly happy hours at a favorite restaurant to weekly Zoom calls. I think a key to successful retirement is maintaining social connections with a spectrum of folks with common interests.