Friends after FIRE

[Montecfo]

No one retires anymore?

It can strain some relationships. As others have said, work relationships fade. No "shop" to talk. But they were work friends, not retirement friends and not true friends like my buddies from high school, college, and otherwise outside of work.

We do not know any folks our age that are retired, even though we are 60 and 62.

And as casual friends found out I had retired, (not something I publicize) there were a few with incredulous reactions. Just have to be ready for these. It can be disappointing, but human nature is what it is.

 

[O2Bfree]

I notice that other women often give me "the look" that seems to say, "Huh! Living off the old man, eh?" or "Inherited a lot of money, did ya?" If possible I'll add that I've always been a naturally frugal person, didn't have kids, and worked, saved, and invested from an early age, so the numbers added up to ER for me. I wish people would ask questions instead of making assumptions, but then some folks consider money a private topic and don't want to pry.

One of my younger friends did inherit a small fortune and was able to RE. I'm happy for her!

 

[flyingaway]

I am not retired, but I am financially independent and lost interest in my work. Most of my friends are older than me and some of them are very much interested in their work (teaching and research). Naturally, we do not have much to talk about when we are together to play cards, and no longer doing things like travel together.

 

[jollystomper]

But family, a different story. They've know us all our married life. Gave us a hard time for so many things over the years. We just did not spend enough to satisfy them (mostly my side of the family). Our cars had 200,000+ miles on them. We sold one of them recently, but it was still running. We ignored name brand clothes, shoes etc. Stayed out of debt. One brother thought it was stupid not to have a mortgage, a matter of opinion. We now have valuable time. Staying healthy is the challenge.

Agree. DW's side of the family thought I was a "cheapskate" for many years for LBYM. MIL would not speak to me for years because I did not accept her "gifts" (which always had strings attached). One BIL refused to let DW park her then 15 year old car in his driveway or in front of his house when visiting ("my neighbors will think I have poor relatives"). At one point a SIL told DW that she should withhold sex to get me to get her "nicer things". MIL and SIL have come around, but BIL now avoids us.

I notice that other women often give me "the look" that seems to say, "Huh! Living off the old man, eh?"

Since I retired and DW continues to work part time, a few of her friends assume that she has to keep working. When the subject is brought up around me, I just say "I am enjoying being a 'kept man'". The looks I get are priceless.

 

[YVRRocketSurgery]

I made the mistake of doing a retirement planning talk at w#rk, and letting folks know I had ER plans. Most often get incredulous reactions, and envious reactions...only true friends will be happy for you, but even they will not comprehend how ER is possible.

Yeah, I don't talk about early retirement at work at all as I feel there are too many potential risks around it. The most I let spill was that during the intro's of my team to a new manager, we had to include 3 interesting things about one's self and while racking my brain on what to say, I indicated that I was interested in Personal Finance.

What are your experiences with friends who did not understand the goals of FIRE or were unable to ?
Did the friendship survive ?

I'm retiring in about a year and a half at age 50.
When I really got serious about retiring early about 10 years ago I was widely mentioning it to friends because I was pretty excited to share the all this FIRE info I was coming across. The general reaction was that it was interesting because it was just an ambitious goal at that point with only a handful also seriously interested in retiring early. Nowadays, I don't really talk about it much except with a handful of friends who I know are doing well financially and we can share ideas. If anyone else asks, I'm just going to say I ended up quitting, to work on some personal projects and focus on a side business. Part of it is also the fact that I don't want to "advertise" that I have a big enough nest egg to retire which comes with its own potential risks and issues IMO.

 

[FIREd]

I quit working in my 30s. I never call myself "retired" however, as it would be too provocative for the vast majority of people. I also keep details about my finances to myself and people don't really know how I support myself, even close relatives. I live a simple lifestyle by choice (very low WR) and people could be excused for thinking of me as an underachiever living off entitlements. But I don't mind. Nothing gives me more pleasure than being a dark horse. It always makes me chuckle when people try to go on a fishing expedition about my finances only to come back frustrated and empty-handed. Some family members will even speculate about my net worth in front of me and they always come up short. While they bait me into talking about my finances, I just smile politely but never give in. So, generally, I'm faced with more curiosity than jealousy.

 

[Amethyst]

The thin end of any bell curve can be a lonely place.

 

[socca]

I wish people would ask questions instead of making assumptions, but then some folks consider money a private topic and don't want to pry.

Anyone asking questions isn't going to get satisfying answers from me - the "need to know" concept definitely applies here.

I had an awkward lunch last year with an old childhood friend whose life is currently a bit messed up. Bad luck and bad decisions both play a part. It's difficult to simultaneously sympathize with the bad luck component and not sympathize with the bad decision component. Lack of money is one of his problems, but of course I didn't pry - it's none of my business.

 

[REWahoo]

Some family members will even speculate about my net worth in front of me and they always come up short. While they bait me into talking about my finances, I just smile politely but never give in. So, generally, I'm faced with more curiosity than jealousy.

You could always tell them you won the Publisher's Clearing House Sweepstakes but had to sign a non-disclosure agreement and can't reveal how much you get per week for the rest of your life.

 

[SpinDoctorTX]

What are your experiences with friends who did not understand the goals of FIRE or were unable to ? Did the friendship survive ?

I have found that many friends were situational- lasting the duration of a job (many long), a marriage, my remarriage, my retirement at 56. Your friend might be stung just because she didn't have any idea- and yes, envy can come into play. You might be able to talk it out still.

only true friends will be happy for you, but even they will not comprehend how ER is possible.

So true.

“I bet you don’t know many people that saved half their income”. Some people don’t get it.

Me, exactly- for the last 20 years I w*rkd! Boy, am I glad that I did!

In your shoes, I'd probably take her to lunch and let her talk more, find out what's bothering her most, and try to move past it and just put finances in the back pocket where they've always been. But if it survives or not depends more on her than you at this point.

an enthusiastic +1

I think ER simply speeds the sorting process, allowing real friends to shine and casual/transactional/accidental friendships to fade. And if you only end up with one or two real friends? Fine. Better to know that than to waste time on ones not ultimately worth it

Exactly.

I do want to find some girlfriends too at some point, but during a pandemic is probably not the best time to pursue new friendships. So, that can wait.

We are looking for new couple friends who are more in line with us politically- also on hiatus due to the pandemic.

Some of our neighbors made it a point to tell us their incomes after we told them we were retired, like they felt inferior about not being retired and were trying to impress us.

I've had people do that to me too- that's their problem. One friend (couple friend) mentioned one time that the cash back they got for spending 80k in a YEAR at Costco was over 10k (or some amount of not enough $ ever for that). I was the one still working and my base salary was less than that and we lived on half of that. The look on their faces was priceless.

I might add "family" to the question. It's worse with family.

Amen on family. My DM seems to think we have a fortune (not that we spend that way) and from time to time makes remarks about how "lucky and fortunate" we are. The last time this came up, I explained to her that I'd worked like a slave and saved like a demon not only for us, but for HER benefit as well. She already has a "wing" in our house and we'll certainly not take any of DM's small SS ck. whenever she moves here full time. D Sis will always need help which we give within reason (lives in the land of crisis) & someday she will need a replacement mobile home on her lot. We couldn't live together, but I'll gladly buy her another one when the time comes. I didn't tell my DM that bit because I'm still hoping DS will get it together, but her SS ck will be minuscule and she definitely has little if any savings.

I wish people would ask questions instead of making assumptions, but then some folks consider money a private topic and don't want to pry.

One of my younger friends did inherit a small fortune and was able to RE. I'm happy for her!

That is great for your friend!

2 friends who asked me how I ERd started a plan to do it themselves. I didn't give them any private details, but I did steer them towards the resources & frugal living/ minimalism blogs I followed.

Agree. DW's side of the family thought I was a "cheapskate" for many years for LBYM. MIL would not speak to me for years because I did not accept her "gifts" (which always had strings attached). One BIL refused to let DW park her then 15 year old car in his driveway or in front of his house when visiting ("my neighbors will think I have poor relatives"). At one point a SIL told DW that she should withhold sex to get me to get her "nicer things". MIL and SIL have come around, but BIL now avoids us.

Wow. That's sad. People can be so weird. Since DH & I each had spendthrifts as exes, we came into our marriage with a financial plan that we were able to act on 4 years earlier than expected. My family knows how careful I am with $ but they were still surprised when I pulled the plug. My j*b was becoming unbearable & I had to scramble to lock in retiree insurance/ pension benes prior to being assigned to a part of the company that was being spun off.

The thin end of any bell curve can be a lonely place.

Nicely said.

 

[Souschef]

Interesting comments, but you do not have to be ER to have comments made. DW and I took a lot of trips in the last years I w**ked. I got some snide comments about it, until one day I told one person off.
I said, look- if you have $2k a month house payments, and I have $1K a month house payments, and we earn about the same, I have $12K a year to travel on.
They still did not grasp the concept!

 

[2017ish]

It's worth realizing that the ER "attitude" is not that common.

I've been retired for 19 years, but I have a good friend who is six years older than I am and still working because he loves what he does (and is very good at it). I know his financial picture and he is considerably better off than I am, but he is also obsessed with leaving as much as possible to his kids (who all have good jobs and are not in need of anything).

I've urged him several times to quit it all and just enjoy himself but he feels he is making a difference in the world and wants to keep it up as long as he can. While I admire that attitude, I don't share it.

Yeah, we only have two other couples that we would consider close friends (and neither of us has other individuals in that category). Both are better financially situated than us as of the date we retired and thereafter, but both guys were unready to quit.

Covid provided a sorting process that we discussed when we got together in June. One is a United Global Services traveler who is pretty high up in one of the international big oil companies. Staying at home with his spouse whilst zooming 10 hours or more a day made him realize that the down time with her was pretty nice. So, as of the end of this year, he'll no longer be working for his hypothetical grandchildren.

The other, however, is an orthopedist who figuratively was experiencing DTs because of his cold turkey withdrawal from surgery. He'll continue working until at least his mid-60s, we suspect--even though no financial need to do so.

Fortunately, no negative feedback whatsoever from either couple on our decision to retire to travel.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I've had people do that to me too- that's their problem. One friend (couple friend) mentioned one time that the cash back they got for spending 80k in a YEAR at Costco was over 10k (or some amount of not enough $ ever for that). I was the one still working and my base salary was less than that and we lived on half of that. The look on their faces was priceless.

We call it the "I'll see your early retirement and raise you a $300K annual household income syndrome". One guy we just met told us enough for us to put together a financial statement on him in the first 10 minutes.

 

[Eucerin]

One of the lessons I have learned in life is that there are people who may be friends, even close friends - as long as they perceive they are in a better "state" than you, or that you are as miserable as they are. As soon as they see you as having an advantage or being happy, the friendship can wane.

You have put it precisely.

While I feel bad that I have to keep distance to this friend but in the same time, I feel that its psycho to deal with such personality.

 

[SpinDoctorTX]

We call it the "I'll see your early retirement and raise you a $300K annual household income syndrome". One guy we just met told us enough for us to put together a financial statement on him in the first 10 minutes.

That's too funny! There's no way I'd trade any amount of $ for the last almost 4 years of retirement.

 

[Octogirl]

Thanks for more comments.
I am so happy with our decision to RE that despite some friendship/family awkwardness, it is SO worth it. I enjoyed my work life alot but when it stopped bringing joy, I also knew it was time to go.
Someone here said it succinctly: when the BS bucket and your money bucket is full, it's time to RE. Sure, we could keep working to help the grandkids etc but honestly, I think we're showing them a good example of saving early in life for later benefits.

Thanks - I enjoy reading all the perspectives.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

That's too funny! There's no way I'd trade any amount of $ for the last almost 4 years of retirement.

+1. Four years is an extra 1,406 days of concerts, museum visits, days at the beach, hiking in the forest, going out dancing with friends, wine tasting and all sorts of fun stuff we would have missed out on.

 

[Markola]

Someone here said it succinctly: when the BS bucket and your money bucket is full, it's time to RE.

This equation is simply bedrock. And it’s what makes FIREing different for every person.

 

[Markola]

The thin end of any bell curve can be a lonely place.

One of MMM’s early posts (FIREd at 30) stuck with me, in which he talked about RE as a useful OPPORTUNITY to build the muscle of not worrying so much about others’ opinions about one’s choices. It sounds healthy and I think he’s right.

 

[ATX78701]

This has been an interesting thread. I’m 6 months away from FIRE. Could do it now but stuck in OMY syndrome. Over the past year I’ve been reevaluating friends from w*rk: mostly all of them are friends bc we have all been at the same company and have similar backgrounds. However, I’ve noticed how often I’m the one reaching out to chat about work or non work stuff. Can’t really blame Covid since we’ve all worked remotely for years. Looking at their lives we are really completely different: I’m single, no kids. Most are married or divorced with kids, mortgages, bills. I anticipate trying to hold on to a couple of the w*rk friends, but expect them to fade within 12 months. Other friends I’ve made along the way (i tried to curate a good limited friend pool) are generally supportive. It will be interesting to see how that changes when they see its not just talk. Regarding family, my older brother FIREd this year, so its been educational to see how he navigates the waters with family, boredom, etc. Ive generally been closely guarded with my financial numbers. When people start to guess based on houses, etc, i always add that appearances are one thing but you never know how much debt someone has.

 

[Global Wizzo]

Friends

It is interesting,
DW and I both retired in the “normal” retirement range. Two friends bought big RVs and travel some.

We tend to try and fly somewhere almost monthly. Yes, wings have been severely clipped with COVID.

Some can’t understand why we would go to Bangkok, Singapore, Dubai, Amman, Beijing, and the list goes on.

The first question is usually Why? Second is how do you afford it. My answer is generally that I have lots of points.

Some folks didn’t save anything and tried to retire with a big debt load. The jealous ones just get ignored. One friend with what must be 10M or more NW is jealous because he just won’t book a flight.

Enjoy everything you do. Real friends won’t care and the rest you don’t need.

 

[GaryInCO]

My brother (2 yrs older) retired 5 yrs ago at 60. He was visiting a few years ago and asked me "when the **** are you going to retire??"

I told him well, I'm really in no hurry...

* I've been self-employed and semi-retired (working no more than 30-40%) for many years.
* Some people want to retire because they hate their job or hate their boss. I don't have either one, and I enjoy the work I do.
* Some people want to retire so they can start traveling, etc. I would love that, but sadly I've been single for 10 yrs, and I really don't enjoy traveling by myself. I would definitely make different choices if I had a partner to play with.
* So if I didn't have any work, I would probably just park my butt in front of the computer more than I already do!
* I'll be comfortable financially when I do retire, but it's sure nice to have the extra income in the meantime. Especially since part of the "comfortable" calculation is Social Security (I fully vest in 2.5 yrs) and a modest inheritance from my mother (probably within a year or less). And I'm trying to minimize burning through my funds so I can pass most of it to my sons, who will need it worse than I will.

So I totally understand y'all who want to FIRE as soon as possible. For me, though, it makes sense to keep "working" (30-40%) for a while longer. With all the free time & etc I already have, I feel almost retired anyway.

 

[LastBoomer]

Gary, With respect to your point 3, about not wanting to travel alone: have you tried it? I have had some of the greatest experiences of my life traveling alone. You meet more people, I think. I actually prefer to travel alone, now.

 

[2cheap2eat]

The covid lockdown has got me thinking about what I’ll do when I FIRE. I figure most people I know will be busy with their occupations. So I’ll need to pick up a few hobbies and travel to experience the world is my initial thoughts.

 

[Katiek]

My brother (2 yrs older) retired 5 yrs ago at 60. He was visiting a few years ago and asked me "when the **** are you going to retire??"

I told him well, I'm really in no hurry...

* Some people want to retire so they can start traveling, etc. I would love that, but sadly I've been single for 10 yrs, and I really don't enjoy traveling by myself. I would definitely make different choices if I had a partner to play with.
.

If you're happy not traveling, that's fine, but if you want to travel with people, you might consider a trip related to a hobby or interest you enjoy. One married friend I know regularly takes photo related trips without his wife who isn't interested in photography. But he meets people with similar interests, many of whom are also traveling alone. Another friend who is single enjoys nature travel and she also meets people with similar interests on trips. Another friend took a seminar/trip on civil war history.



Obviously travel is a bit restricted now, especially group travel. But when things open up again, you might look into whether there are any trips related to your interests. There are trips with cycling themes, food, wine, history, literature, volunteer work, etc.