Interesting article

[Texas Proud]

Billy....

It seems to me that you did not 'retire'... IIRC you have a book and a website... and write articles or something Does this not bring you income? If it does, then all you did was change professions... one that you like a lot more, but work none the less.

If you get 'paid' to do something, that is 'work'.

 

[kcowan]

Billy....

It seems to me that you did not 'retire'... IIRC you have a book and a website... and write articles or something Does this not bring you income? If it does, then all you did was change professions... one that you like a lot more, but work none the less.

If you get 'paid' to do something, that is 'work'.

I get that all the time. People see how much I love investing and writing and photography and ask why I don't do it for money. And I say that then I wouldn't be retired anymore. Just working differently.

Because I know so much about telephony, my neighbor says I should offer it as a service. Everyone seems to think that getting paid makes it legitimate...

 

[Nords]

If you get 'paid' to do something, that is 'work'.

Hey, those CDs don't stamp & mail themselves for free, and the concept of early retirement isn't exactly likely to vault them to the top of the NYT best-seller lists. There are about as many authors enriching themselves from writing/publishing as there are millionaires carrying Screen Actors Guild cards.

I'm happy to help out neighbors with handyman repairs, but I charge most of them $25/hour so that (1) they're not too proud or shy to ask for help and (2) they don't abuse the value of my time/assistance.

I apply the same $25/hour standards to helping acquaintances with officer fitness reports/enlisted evaluations and civilian résumés. In those cases I'm actually worth $75/hour but I don't want to make it a full-time job.

I still give surfing lessons for free. No plans to change that.

BTW spouse and I donated several orders of magnitude more to charity this year than we brought in from the sweat of my brow...

 

[Texas Proud]

Nords...

yes, I agree that charging for your experience to only the ones you want is different.. I had no problem paying for my BILs expertise on construction as the total was way less than me doing it on my own...

My mom volunteered at the local geneology library for many many years... she loved it... but then it got to be to much like work because she could not take off when she wanted because it would be shut down as there were no others who helped... finally told them to get stuffed when they got huffy with her going to a Dr. appt...

And if you only write once in awhile... on your own schedule etc. etc... it is not 'work' either... I was just trying to get a feel for how much was being done...

 

[haha]

... I was just trying to get a feel for how much was being done...

Naughty person!

 

[MJ]

ER is not a pure science. The idea is that you don't need to work to have the lifestyle you choose to have. When people ask me whether I am retired, I tell them no, I just don't work. If I was back in NYC and was asked to do 4 to 6 marketing research forums a month for $100 to $200 a pop, I would do em and would not consider my time spent as work. I would get to meet some nice people and get a "free lunch or dinner" to boot. Besides, my generosity would increase as I would consider this income, frivolous and extra play money.

MJ

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hmm. I've worked in a restaurant. I've written articles for a web site.

The latter seems like a day on the beach in paradise holding a tropical drink compared to the former...

 

[Billy]

Billy, Would you be willing to share what percentage of your current income is derived from passive investments accumulated during working years and what percentage is derived from your current business endeavors?

The short answer is 100% and 0%.

If you are asking if the proceeds from our popular book, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement, has effected our lifestyle choices and spending, the answer is no. Or if we are dependent on the book sales to continue our lifestyle, the answer is still no.

In the early days we sat at the pool daily (our ‘office’), and traveled the world for the15 years prior to writing the book and we continue to do so today.

The publishing of our book has given us the opportunity to meet some outstanding people and colorful characters whom we may not have met if we had not published it.

The opportunities it has offered us has opened our world and we have opened to the world as well. None of this would have taken place had we not gone public with our story and we have a richer life for it.

TexasProud

Billy.... It seems to me that you did not 'retire'... IIRC you have a book and a website... and write articles or something Does this not bring you income? If it does, then all you did was change professions... one that you like a lot more, but work none the less. If you get 'paid' to do something, that is 'work'.

That is a legitimate point to be bringing up, but I think your labeling of getting paid to do something being automatically called ‘work’ is too narrow. At least for us.

We have preferred the description ‘Financially Independent’ over the label of being ‘Retired’. Retired is an older term that seems to conjure up images of sitting in a rocking chair doing nothing or eating bon-bons in front of the TV watching soaps. I didn’t know being Retired came with rules. That is what we wanted to leave behind when we left the standard working world.

In our book we have greatly detailed that doing volunteer work has been an integral part of our financially independent lifestyle. Managing our website, returning the massive amounts of correspondence that we receive from others who want to know if they, too, could retire, writing articles and doing the interviews that we do -- we consider all of that to be our volunteer time. It’s something we can do from anywhere in the world, and it is immensely satisfying.

It gives us great pleasure to be able to utilize our considerable combined talents in new and rewarding ways. It also allows us opportunities to learn new things and to challenge our comfort zones.

Billy does a good deal of computer trouble-shooting here in Thailand and back in the States and doesn’t charge anything for it. But if someone gives him free internet café time or bakes him some banana bread in exchange does it now become work?

Kcowan

I get that all the time. People see how much I love investing and writing and photography and ask why I don't do it for money. And I say that then I wouldn't be retired anymore. Just working differently.

See, I think if you are financially independent you can do whatever the flip you please. Leave the rules and descriptions by others behind. Do what you want to do and as much as you want. You won’t get ‘fired’… You decide how you want to live your life.

Because I know so much about telephony, my neighbor says I should offer it as a service. Everyone seems to think that getting paid makes it legitimate...

Again, that’s their description of something you are doing. If you subscribe to that, it’s a catch 22. In order for it to be ‘legitimate’ you must be getting paid. If you get paid, you are no longer retired.

Nords

I'm happy to help out neighbors with handyman repairs, but I charge most of them $25/hour so that (1) they're not too proud or shy to ask for help and (2) they don't abuse the value of my time/assistance…..I still give surfing lessons for free. No plans to change that.

Perfect!! Everyone gets what they need or want. This is your life, you’re in charge of what you do, for and with whom -- and how much, if anything, to charge.

The FREEDOM of being financially independent: You get to decide.

MJ

ER is not a pure science. The idea is that you don't need to work to have the lifestyle you choose to have. When people ask me whether I am retired, I tell them no, I just don't work.

Great answer also, MJ.

Be well, stay strong!
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement

 

[TickTock]

Akaisha,

Great post! I'd also make the point that anything you're doing now must seem like nothing compared to running a restaurant and being a Dean-Witter VP!

However, I do have an important point:

Billy does a good deal of computer trouble-shooting here in Thailand and back in the States and doesn’t charge anything for it. But if someone gives him free internet café time or bakes him some banana bread in exchange does it now become work?

And IIRC you sometimes tend bar for free lodging. And other services for free stuff.

It is important for someone like myself trying to figure out the safe nest egg. You live on an average of $24,000 per year. But the free stuff you get for that service has value - if you didn't do it, your lifestyle would cost more. Whether or not it's 'work' (however we care to define that term).

 

[TickTock]

I'm happy to help out neighbors with handyman repairs, but I charge most of them $25/hour so that (1) they're not too proud or shy to ask for help and (2) they don't abuse the value of my time/assistance.

Good idea! TickTock Rule of Finance (tm): What is 'free' tends to get abused.

For example, I'm a salaried employee. If we work a contractor over the weekend, we have to pay 1.5x, 2x on Sundays/Holidays, and so forth. The decision causes much agony. But for me, the standard is 'work as much as you want! In fact, work MORE than you want!! (Hey, I'm 'free'!!!)

The extra hours SHOULD 'hurt' (the company financially), IMO, to keep down the abuse.

 

[TickTock]

My mom volunteered at the local geneology library for many many years... she loved it... but then it got to be to much like work because she could not take off when she wanted because it would be shut down as there were no others who helped... finally told them to get stuffed when they got huffy with her going to a Dr. appt...

Yah. What part of 'volunteer' is hard to understand here?

 

[Billy]

Tick Tock

It is important for someone like myself trying to figure out the safe nest egg. You live on an average of $24,000 per year. But the free stuff you get for that service has value - if you didn't do it, your lifestyle would cost more. Whether or not it's 'work' (however we care to define that term).

Hi Tick Tock. You bring up a very good point on which I thought I might add some light from our experiences.

When we were working, we hired people to do our services (gardener, housecleaning, car repair, car wash, drycleaning, etc. etc.). It's because we didn't have any personal time, and to spend it doing things that weren't rewarding or relaxing just added to our stress.

Now that we are financially independent and are not reliant upon a paycheck and the hours one puts in to receive that money, we are able to barter for, exchange our time for, or simply give to others. It creates a solid sense of community with individuals that we didn't have in the same way as before.

I am guessing, but I would think others have similar experiences.

In our community, there are those people who know how to fix washers and dryers but don't know beans about computers. We exchange those services and everyone benefits. Or sometimes there is an elderly or ill person who cannot get to the grocery or prepare a meal. I do both of those things on a regular basis, and I simply check in with them to see if they need anything. If I'm making a pan of lasagna, I wrap up some portions and give them away. Then, when we are on our long travels, these same people will look after our place to be sure our roof doesn't blow off in a storm, or we don't have any water damage. We don't get the daily or Sunday newspapers but a neighbor does, and when there is a cupon for a sale at Michael's crafts, she walks down and gives me the flyer. When I make poached pears with wine and cinnamon, I give her a batch for her trouble.

How does one put a value on these peripheral services/items? I'm not sure, but yes, our lives are richer for it. I could live happily without the banana bread, but it makes life sweeter having the exchange.

I'm sure when you unplug from the working world your many talents will find ways of bringing in plenty of exchanges. I don't know how anyone can budget those into their retirement plans.

Be well,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[Nords]

If you are asking if the proceeds from our popular book, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement, has effected our lifestyle choices and spending, the answer is no. Or if we are dependent on the book sales to continue our lifestyle, the answer is still no.

The "found money" doesn't affect one's lifestyle, but eventually it becomes a "green waste" issue. We're still searching for value in our spending, and if the value isn't there then we're not likely to spend it.

But every once in a long while it's nice to be able to dip into that stash to solve a problem right now. Or to loan through Kiva.org. Or to donate to charity.

Good idea! TickTock Rule of Finance (tm): What is 'free' tends to get abused.
The extra hours SHOULD 'hurt' (the company financially), IMO, to keep down the abuse.

What you're describing is a debilitating syndrome called "management" and one of the few effective antidotes is called "the union".

I'm sure when you unplug from the working world your many talents will find ways of bringing in plenty of exchanges.

Craigslist and other community bulletin boards!

 

[haha]

If you are asking if the proceeds from our popular book, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement, has effected our lifestyle choices and spending, the answer is no. Or if we are dependent on the book sales to continue our lifestyle, the answer is still no.

This statement is hard for me to understand. If you live on a portfolio, rather than a pension, any money that you earn must improve your position, either by allowing you to raise your withdrawal level at the same level of risk, or by allowing you to keep the same level of withdrawals, but at a reduced risk.

If you only sold a few books that might not matter, but you describe it as "our popular book, The Adventurer’s Guide...” So your own words suggest a meaningful income stream. Personally I think a part time non-annoying business or job is a good idea. I am just puzzled by the way you frame it.

Ha

 

[youbet]

The short answer is 100% and 0%.

That's interesting....... I guess I assumed that since your books were popular and you charge for them (of course!), that they generated some cash for you. But you say 100% of your cash expenditures are covered by investment income from money you saved before retiring at 38.

I also enjoyed your comments regarding bartering. I had assumed you sometimes received some items of value such as accomodations or transportation. But you emphasized receiving only small favors such as someone providing a discount coupon or watching your house while you're away.

Very impressive. With only $24K/yr passive investment income, I can't imagaine how we would make it without having the part time business generate at least a few pennies of spendable cash or the bartering result in receiving something in trade that meaningfully reduced expenses.

 

[kcowan]

I am guessing, but I would think others have similar experiences.

In our community, there are those people who know how to fix washers and dryers but don't know beans about computers. We exchange those services and everyone benefits. Or sometimes there is an elderly or ill person who cannot get to the grocery or prepare a meal. I do both of those things on a regular basis, and I simply check in with them to see if they need anything. If I'm making a pan of lasagna, I wrap up some portions and give them away. Then, when we are on our long travels, these same people will look after our place to be sure our roof doesn't blow off in a storm, or we don't have any water damage. We don't get the daily or Sunday newspapers but a neighbor does, and when there is a cupon for a sale at Michael's crafts, she walks down and gives me the flyer. When I make poached pears with wine and cinnamon, I give her a batch for her trouble.

How does one put a value on these peripheral services/items? I'm not sure, but yes, our lives are richer for it. I could live happily without the banana bread, but it makes life sweeter having the exchange.

No need to guess any longer. We lend the neighbor our car and I fix his technical stuff: computer, camera, scanner, phones. They look after the plants and cats when we are away. They also supply banana loaves and cookies, and they deliver the daily paper after they have read it.

 

[kcowan]

That's interesting....... I guess I assumed that since your books were popular and you charge for them (of course!), that they generated some cash for you. But you say 100% of your cash expenditures are covered by investment income from money you saved before retiring at 38.

I also enjoyed your comments regarding bartering. I had assumed you sometimes received some items of value such as accomodations or transportation. But you emphasized receiving only small favors such as someone providing a discount coupon or watching your house while you're away.

Very impressive. With only $24K/yr passive investment income, I can't imagaine how we would make it without having the part time business generate at least a few pennies of spendable cash or the bartering result in receiving something in trade that meaningfully reduced expenses.

There are real benefits to bartering. We do home swaps and the savings are enormous but the main value is in the enhanced travel experience. Cheaper and better. Can't beat that.

Spending time discovering things an ebay, craigslist or The dollar store is rewarded with lower expenses. And I think the decision to write about your experiences is very common. Just look at all the blogs. But summarizing that stream of consciousness into a useful book generates value even though it was not originally done to make a profit. Like Billy and Akeisha, we are fine with the pensions and portfolio but I shop for value as a hobby.

When I see the same issues come up on boards such as this repeatedly, I will summarize my contribution and experience on the subject and post it to my website. Usually that delivers greater value and avoids posting the same stuff over and over. Does that make me an author? You tell me.

 

[Billy]

We retired in 1991. 15 years before writing our popular and successful book, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement, A Common Sense Approach.

We had no idea what the sales of our book would be so we put the proceeds into another account and continue to do so today. What we do with that account in the future is yet to be determined. Donate it to charity, start a library in some remote country or do something else…we have no clue at this time.

The point is this money has no bearing on our spending, lifestyle or travel.

For 15 years before we wrote our book we led this lifestyle, traveling the world, donating our time to volunteer and enjoying terrific adventurers. It’s really that simple.

The 24K figure is what we average in spending. If you need to spend more fine and sometimes we do also, but on average that’s what we’ve run.

We’ve been doing this for 17 years now and continue to hone our skills. Like Kcowan says, it’s shopping for value as a hobby.

We do know other ER’s that make us look like the Rockefeller’s in our spending, some of whom are forum members.

We use our real names not aliases on the forum. Our lives are public via our website, www.RetireEarlyLifestyle.com and so what good would it do if we lied? We are proud of our accomplishments and maintain the attitude that "if we can do it, so can you." (It’s supposed to be inspirational, not confrontational… )

We wrote The Guide to answer many of the questions we were being asked both in person and via our old website and to challenge the reader so they could see different positive options for their future. With 15 years of experience people were interested in our story and how we managed to escape the rat and consumer race so many are trapped into.

We have obviously struck a chord based on the testimonials we receive from readers where they comment on how much we have inspired them to look at their lives from a different point of view.

Many of our readers have come to visit us wanting first-hand knowledge of our experiences. The last few months we’ve met a couple that climbed Mt Kilimanjaro who have some awesome stories, an early retired Canadian couple with a teenage daughter and an avid bicyclist who rides the back roads of Thailand. Later this month other forum members are meeting us as well as people from Australia and Tokyo.

These meetings have reinforced our beliefs that if we can live our dreams so can others.

In January we will begin our 18th year of financial independence, and look forward to the new adventurers it will bring.

Kcowan talks about the benefits of bartering and gave some good examples. Get familiar with Craigslist for starters… and your neighbors too!

You would be surprised as to how it will increase your lifestyle -- and the community it brings to your life is a very strong and meaningful addition… and if you want ideas for lodging benefits while traveling try Couchsurfing.com . All these types of things are listed on our site. http://retireearlylifestyle.com/favorite_er_links.htm

The point is that there are many ways to enhance your retirement besides simply increasing your monthly pension amount.

It’s really that simple and it’s Common Sense.

Be well,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[MJ]

We do know other ER’s that make us look like the Rockefeller’s in our spending, some of whom are forum members.

Anybody I know?

MJ (aka Mr. Thaiwad)

 

[Lancelot]

When I met Billy and Akaisha in Chiangmai, they seemd to spend a lot of time at the pool and seeking out scrumptious buffet deals, the kind where you pay around $3 per person at very upscale four or five star hotels. Talk about blowing money

They were also gracious enough to host several pool side "Happy Hours" and Billy forced old Lance to drink some beer Chang. They never charged me for the beer, so no income there...

But about this sneaking some (paid) work in, I says we haul Billy before the Supreme ER Investigative Work Panel and make him repent for his dasterdly deeds. If found guilty, he should be punished severly, like no Chang for a month. I say we give Akaisha a pass because: 1) she is a nice lady; 2) most likely Billy forced her to assist him in work projects; and 3) she doesn't drink much anyway

I did some interpreting for a guy and he paid me. I wonder if Billy will press charges against me as well

Lance

 

[mountaintosea]

Great post Lancelot!

 

[kcowan]

It’s really that simple and it’s Common Sense.
Be well,
Akaisha

You guys serve as an inspiration to us all. What I like is how you freely share your experiences here and elsewhere.

Akeisha, we have bought a place in PV. We are planning to spend winters from late October (Hallowe'en and The Day of the Dead celebrations) until after Easter celebrations. Then we will travel to Europe/Far East and summer in Vancouver. I hope we can intercept you guys in either Thailand or the US. We will probably be in San Diego in May 2009 on a home swap in May. If we go to Nevada, can we rendezvous somewhere?

 

[Billy]

That was a great post, Lance! Anytime you wanna meet up again... We'd love to see you!

Kcowan

You guys serve as an inspiration to us all. What I like is how you freely share your experiences here and elsewhere.

Thank you, Kcowan. We appreciate your appreciation!

Akeisha, we have bought a place in PV. We are planning to spend winters from late October (Hallowe'en and The Day of the Dead celebrations) until after Easter celebrations. Then we will travel to Europe/Far East and summer in Vancouver. I hope we can intercept you guys in either Thailand or the US. We will probably be in San Diego in May 2009 on a home swap in May. If we go to Nevada, can we rendezvous somewhere?

Sounds great! and thanks! We'd love to meet up with you. We do have some travel plans for Mexico/Central America next summer and we'll be here in Thailand until the spring of '08. Why not email us anytime and see if our locations are compatible?

Did you buy a condo in PV? We haven't been there in too many years.

If you don't mind sharing, how did you manage your home swap? Is it a 'company' that you have used before? I have a few links on our Preferred Links Page Favorite ER Links for home exchanges... just wondering if yours is a better deal, and how easy it was to arrange.

Thanks again.

Be well,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

 

[Rob]

My opinion and concerns

Hi-
I am one of the many people who have written to Aikasha and Billy and received nice responses concerning retirement. Last year I wanted to semi-retire or completely retire from working in Singapore after 19 years as a teacher in International Schools, and Aikasha wrote me a few times to say that I really do have enough to retire. It does take a certain level of courage to make that move.

I'm a Permanent Resident in Singapore for life, and frankly, the cost of housing has become too high at the moment for one that now has to pay rent. I received a call from an ex-colleague to teach in Amman, Jordan, at another very nice international school. It looks like I'm still working, but the feeling I have is that I'm retired. When you have enough to retire (I'm 61) and you choose to work, in my mind, it's retirement.

This next year I may actually do something I never thought I would do, and that is set up a homebase in the States. Having a homebase there does not mean I need to remain there, but it's important now for me to have a place to put everything and the freedom to still teach overseas or do volunteer work overseas. Carrying everything with me is not the way I like to do things anymore.

I'm aiming toward my old stomping grounds from the early 1970's, San Antonio, Texas, the last place I lived for any length of time in the States. I look at townhouses there that are in great shape for under $120,000. I like that feeling of having a home of my own. I've never had that before.

The financial concern I have is that I am still struggling with how to tap into my retirement money. I've met my goal of about a million dollars in savings and investments, but 75% of that is in an after-tax annnuity with TIAA-CREF, and the rest in property stocks and regular stocks also with TIAA-CREF along with a pretty ample bank account. With the after-tax annuity I have 3 choices. Option 1: I can annnuitize the whole thing and get a guaranteed lifetime income of $48,000/year going up to $60,000/year after 25 years. I'd let the rest of my retirement investments remain and grow for another 7 or 8 years, which would greatly help my yearly income after I receive social security. Option 2: Instead of annuitizing, I can take the $750,000 annuity over a period of 9 years and re-invest it. The problem for me is is I would not sleep well if I had to worry about where to put all that money. I really do fear the stock market (it's me, I know). An annnuity income guarantees everything for life, and TIAA-CREF has the highest rating of any investment company, frankly. I wish I could annuitize part of my annuity, but the after-tax annuity is either all or none. Those are the TIAA-CREF rules! Option 3: I could live off the interest from my annuity, which would give me about $36,000/year. However, when you run the numbers, there is not a great deal of profit delaying the annuity payment by a year when the principal stays the same.

I'll probably annuitize sometime next year. I like sleeping at night, and the $200,000 I have in stocks and property investements with TIAA-CREF will sit and I'll add to that over the next few years.

I have read so many articles on Annuities, and there are a fair number of people who hate them, but if you're single, don't have any heirs, and have a family history of long life, that certainly might be worth the cost.

Anyway, I have rambled far from the purpose of this post, and that is I have appreciated Akaisha's and Billy's responses. I am retired, really, and although I drive to a job everyday, I feel good knowing I am retired and choose to do this. Being retired is a state of mind, and if you work, you can still be retired. Just my opinion.

Regards,
Rob

 

[kcowan]

Did you buy a condo in PV? We haven't been there in too many years.

If you don't mind sharing, how did you manage your home swap? Is it a 'company' that you have used before? I have a few links on our Preferred Links Page Favorite ER Links for home exchanges... just wondering if yours is a better deal, and how easy it was to arrange.

Thanks again.

Be well,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement

Yes we bought a 15-year-old condo in old town. We avoided the tourist-focused high rises in favour of one that locals live in.

The home swaps were arranged at a retiree web site from my megacorp days. This was because there was a certain base level of comfort with former workmates. I note that craigslist is becoming a major place for swaps.

Once we get settled in PV we will be looking to swaps in Europe as there are many interested in visiting PV. Our northern home in Vancouver appeals to skiers when we are in PV, and we use it ourselves in the summer.