Too much togetherness

[BigMoneyJim]

I've heard from time to time of couples that have seperate sleeping quarters and even separate housing. I used to think the idea was odd, but now I'm seeing more cases where I wonder if it might be a good idea after all. Don't we all need our own space?

At 36 and never having been married I expect to run into sharing problems if I ever do get married. It's a hypothetical exercise for me, but I sometimes wonder about splitting a duplex, having an attic office/abode over a garage, having a big barn/manhome in the back yard or something similar where I have my own space, my own music, my own junk, my own socks on the floor. Especially after I retire.

 

[chris2008]

Full support to the advice of getting good counselling asap.

And then: what do you mean by "I'm not about to split hard-earned assets"?
Did you earn all these allone? Did your wife not contribute to earning them and keeping them together? If she was the homekeeper, wasn't this by common agreement? She probably earned a fair share of it by hard work.

Consider that often a wife decides to get a divorce just around retirement age. Kids are out, assets are collected and can be counted, future income is predictable.
She will not be alone as her friends are retiring at that age, too, and have time to spend with her.
So improve your relationship or get out.

What you say is (in my ears) "I would rather be unhappy for the rest of my life and make my wife unhappy, too, than to split assets and make the best of what remains from money and life." It is so sad.

 

[ladelfina]

Rather than look at what it might cost you to exit this relationship, Professor, can you ask yourself what you would PAY to meet the love of your life and live together with her for the rest of your life? How much would that be worth?

Caroline, this is a GREAT way to look at it.. Kinda similar to what I say to my Italian relatives who are amazed that I don't have an armored door or urban-shop-style roll-down grates over all the windows of my house. "What would it cost to replace everything in the house if thieves came in?.. Now, is that a figure you would pay to stay OUT of 'jail'?" [Guys, you cannot imagine how depressing it is to barricade yourself in at night and wake up with no natural light anywhere in the house, no matter the weather or time of day... but this, to them, is "normal."]

I know when DH has time to hang around the house, we are not the most comfortable, not because we don't love each other, but because he's really at a loss for what to do. I have to be "the general" (his words) and give him tasks, but that's not really my style, and we have different rhythms in the 3-legged race that is married life. When he's out of semi-retirement, which is whenever he feels like not working outside anymore, we'll have to start "working on that" but for the forseeable future I think for his own happiness he'll need to maintain an outside gig of some kind, even if it is unpaid. He thrives on structure.

 

[haha]

Consider that often a wife decides to get a divorce just around retirement age. Kids are out, assets are collected and can be counted, future income is predictable.
She will not be alone as her friends are retiring at that age, too, and have time to spend with her.
So improve your relationship or get out.

"Sugar and spice and everything nice" indeed!

 

[kcowan]

So my question is: If any of you are in my same boat, how do you cope and get along? Divorce is not an option as we live in a community property state and I'm not about to split hard-earned assets, no matter what.
...

Bit the bullet in 1995: 50% of everything to DW. Then met another divorcee. Got together and share 50-50. Much happier and about as well off financially. (Well now but was down for a few years!)

At the time, I had many conversations with friends who think like Professor. They are still serving life sentences. Not for me...life is about making the tough decisions (or taking the fork in the road).

 

[JonnyM]

I agree that Caroline nailed it. Too many couples we see and talk to out there in the big bad world have just "settled" and we find that so sad. DW and I both gave up pretty much everything to be together 15 years ago. Except and little did we realize in our 30's the one thing we did keep, was going to be our salvation for FIRE, namely we both kept our retirement system accounts intact and untouched. I actually had to pay and Actuary to place a value on mine, and it cost me all my house equity in trade, at that time about 40 thousand dollars, which seemed like a gazillion, but Whoa Boy did I end up making a good deal there. In the end current and forever always DW and I combined similar retirement accounts to double up our final FIRE income as Ex had no interest in working until after the split, and I expect (KIMH) she would have happily lived off "my" retirement. Of course in her world view, that would be only after I worked another 10 YEARS! Oh the horror of it all, avoided by doing what felt right to pursue true happiness.

What I'm saying is in the nutshell, it would have been worth any price to be with my soul-mate, and it's easy to see 15 years later that I chose wisely grasshopper, and as a bonus we both lucked out big time and were able to FIRE together where we probably would not have been able to separately, certainly not at age 50.

 

[Shredder]

Consider that often a wife decides to get a divorce just around retirement age. Kids are out, assets are collected and can be counted, future income is predictable.
She will not be alone as her friends are retiring at that age, too, and have time to spend with her.
So improve your relationship or get out.

This time is also menopause time. You never really know if you are talking/ arguing with your wife or her hormones.......Shredder

 

[Enuff2Eat]

i agree with many responese here. this is a case of money OVER happiness. i am so sorry to hear about your situation but if i were in your situation i would do the following thing

1) seperate room and occasionally sex is good
2) be together when you have companies or at a party so that u can talk to others too
3) ask her if you can "do" things with her once every two week and you will do the same for her. for ex. tennis everyother tuesday for her and bowling everyother thursday for u.
4) last, keep busy and communicate, comunicate...

last last option, get a girlfriend on a side if she let you.

enuff

 

[shiny]

last last option, get a girlfriend on a side if she let you.

I realize that we often get away from our simple living, LBYM roots here on the Early Retirment Forum, but geez. A girlfriend (or boyfriend for that matter) on the side sounds anathema to getting to FIRE to me. (And it will NOT help you to keep your assets in a divorce proceeding either!!)

 

[dumpster56]

I realize that we often get away from our simple living, LBYM roots here on the Early Retirment Forum, but geez. A girlfriend (or boyfriend for that matter) on the side sounds anathema to getting to FIRE to me. (And it will NOT help you to keep your assets in a divorce proceeding either!!)

Ain't dat the truth!

 

[AltaRed]

I've heard from time to time of couples that have seperate sleeping quarters and even separate housing. I used to think the idea was odd, but now I'm seeing more cases where I wonder if it might be a good idea after all. Don't we all need our own space?

Separate housing is not as rare as one might think. DW and I know of a few such situations and it seems to work for them. There is an element that each is 'there' in times of crisis, e.g. family crisis, health crisis, etc. while most of the time, each lives their separate lives. The key downside of that though would be the lack of daily companionship and togetherness that could have been potentially obtained in a relationship with a 'new' individual.

 

[Brat]

Divorce is rarely an economic winner for either party. Better to try to find accomodation.

 

[Sundance Kid]

I don't totally buy into the idea of counseling, as being the salvation. For it to work, both parties have to be totally agreeable, to try to make it work. You really, have to Want --- to make it work! I f, you can't make that committment, you're wasting your time! Counselors, will have suggestions but, --No Magic Wand.

How do you find a good counselor? I have no idea. Just find one, you're comfortable in talking with. It will take time and money. If, You Both, feel the need and Both want it to work, you could probably work it out , on your own.

I wish you the best!

 

[OkieTexan]

It always saddens me to hear about marriage difficulties at a time in life when we expect to be realizing our dreams and celebrating our accomplishments. However, as Caroline said, it can be an eye-opener and lead to a better life ahead. Only you and the DW can decide the right path. I wish you both well.

I went through a divorce in 1989. It was painful; but it was the right thing to do.
Reading through the posts made me think of the famous palimony lawyer

Marvin Mitchelson (1928-2004)

Look him up on Wikipedia. It is a short; but interesting article. One of his favorite lines to use on famous actresses seeking divorce:

Actress: Why is a divorce so expensive?
MM: Because it is worth it!

As in the article about Mitchelson, life is full of ironies. None of us really knows how it will turn out!

Back in 1989, I never expected to be FIRED at this time in my life and never thought I would be happily married again. I was wrong about both!

 

[Linney]

I don't totally buy into the idea of counseling, as being the salvation. For it to work, both parties have to be totally agreeable, to try to make it work. You really, have to Want --- to make it work! I f, you can't make that committment, you're wasting your time!

True, but as long as the Professor has the commitment he can indeed get something out of it. My ex and I went in for divorce marriage counselling. When we started the process, I was saying "It's all his fault" and he was saying "It's all her fault".

When the process was said and done, my ex was still saying "It's all her fault". But I now understood how the actions that I chose to take contributed to the problems of the marriage, and I now said "It was both of our faults". When I remarried later, I went in with eyes a bit more wide open and a resolve not to repeat the communication mistakes I had made in the past. My current marriage of 10 years has greatly benefited from that.

If you go into counselling with the goal to better understand yourself, your spouse, and what your needs are, then the chance for success is greater. Even if the result is not what you anticipated when you started.

Good luck Professor. You're in a tough spot and you have my sympathies.

 

[Sundance Kid]

Good Post, Linney!

 

[CyclingInvestor]

Divorce is not an option as we live in a community property state and I'm not about to split hard-earned assets, no matter what.

Maybe it should be. I divorced 14 years ago, splitting the house (it was our biggest
asset at the time). My ex and I remained good friends. She moved back here about
a decade ago. We get along much better now, since the conflict areas have mostly
disappeared.

 

[Ibid]

.

 

[mathjak107]

i had the opposite view, the counseling made things worse. even things we didnt argue about were brought up and then we started fighting over them. we ended up divorced 6 months later anyway.

i thought this particular counseler was not very good. here we are fighting in her office after she opened up a can of worms and we were there because of my inability to communicate with my ex and not have her turn it into something totally unconstructive and just yelling.


soooooo what does she say? i can see you 2 have alot to discuss when you get home.

duh! hello , we are hear because she cant communicate right? whats there to discuss?

 

[mathjak107]

It always saddens me to hear about marriage difficulties at a time in life when we expect to be realizing our dreams and celebrating our accomplishments. However, as Caroline said, it can be an eye-opener and lead to a better life ahead. Only you and the DW can decide the right path. I wish you both well.

I went through a divorce in 1989. It was painful; but it was the right thing to do.
Reading through the posts made me think of the famous palimony lawyer

Marvin Mitchelson (1928-2004)

Look him up on Wikipedia. It is a short; but interesting article. One of his favorite lines to use on famous actresses seeking divorce:

Actress: Why is a divorce so expensive?
MM: Because it is worth it!

As in the article about Mitchelson, life is full of ironies. None of us really knows how it will turn out!

Back in 1989, I never expected to be FIRED at this time in my life and never thought I would be happily married again. I was wrong about both!

best thing about divorce is she only gets half.. staying together with my ex and her credit cards geesh... in fact they stole one of her credit cards and i didnt even report it. the bills were less

 

[mathjak107]

i agree with many responese here. this is a case of money OVER happiness. i am so sorry to hear about your situation but if i were in your situation i would do the following thing

1) seperate room and occasionally sex is good
2) be together when you have companies or at a party so that u can talk to others too
3) ask her if you can "do" things with her once every two week and you will do the same for her. for ex. tennis everyother tuesday for her and bowling everyother thursday for u.
4) last, keep busy and communicate, comunicate...

last last option, get a girlfriend on a side if she let you.

enuff

theres alot of truth here. my observation and experience is that men tend not to go anywhere when unhappy. men tend to bear the relationship as best they can and then end up more ofton than not with a girl friend on the side. its only when a man gets backed into a corner and has to react will he get divorced

women on the other hand when un-happy will usually be the ones to initiate divorce with no problem. being alotmore emotional then men women sometimes can react with the speed of lightning to filing.

 

[mathjak107]

one more comment : my ex and i were soooo opposite and to be opposite it takes the right mix of personalities.

my ex would go what are you doing saturday?

id respond well since we have nothing planned im going to go mountain biking.

she would be angry now internally and not say anything , she was hoping id say i thought we would go to the art museum.

but since im not the kind of guy who would even think of saying it, she needed to be the type to say dont make plans saturday, we are going to the art musuem.

but she wasnt that type and so things got worse and worse.

my current wife and i are like mirror images of each other. she loves hunting and shooting and mountain biking. sometines i think i married me. we say the same expressions at the same time. its spooky

when we met we owned the same 2 models of vehicles, our kids have the same names and the kids have the same hobbies, favorite movies and even collect the same things, nike sneakers and sports memorabilia.
both my son and his fiance and my wifes son and his fiance have the same anniversary. its soooooooooo scarey


i giess i learned in my last marriage i was kind of selfish in my own way so here i met someone who was just like me, this way i didnt have to change and go anywhere. ha ha ha

 

[Arc]

Remember that marriage is a verb - not a noun. It requires action and activity every single day. Can't just let it sit on a shelf. Not all that easy sometimes.

 

[Rich_by_the_Bay]

...Nike sneakers...

You both collect Nike sneakers?

 

[HFWR]

Or an occasional python boot...