Vacation homes for the FIRE'd

[M Paquette]

The island getaway sounds neat... for about 30 seconds. I'd need a boat, and I recall the definition my boat-owning friends use: "A boat is a hole in the water that you fill in with money." Not for me, thanks.

I'm considering renting condos in areas of interest for short periods, a week or so. There are a number of these in my target area. Once I find something I like, I'll try a lease for a year unless something is screaming "Buy!", as a year's lease looks to be 2-3x the property taxes, or roughly half a realtor's commission (starving 6%ers out there...), to make sure I like the place, and get reasonable use out of it.

The target area is perhaps 3 hours at most away by car. The particular places I have an eye on have a very high walk score, and the region has plenty of nice activities. (It's actually better than the megasuburban wasteland I currently live in, with nothing in walking distance but other homes.)

 

[bizlady]

Here's a question for all second home owners: How many weeks a year are you in the second home?

Every weekend for us year around, except major holidays. 2-3 weeks for vacation. We are not retired yet, but empty nested, and expect to spend about half the time here once retired. 2nd home is 2.5 hours north from our base.

When home and retired, will help aging parents and visit our daughter and family. Oh I suppose the mundane maintenance on the base home and stuff like that too!

 

[haha]

The target area is perhaps 3 hours at most away by car. The particular places I have an eye on have a very high walk score, and the region has plenty of nice activities. (It's actually better than the megasuburban wasteland I currently live in, with nothing in walking distance but other homes.)

Why not just move there. I am kind of surprised by all the interest in 2nd homes, given that we have so many threads about LBYM and living simply.

There are things less simple and LBYM (unless one's means are huge) than a 2nd home, but not too many.

My neighborhood has a 98 walkscore. I really don't want to go very far away. I still own a country home in nice area, but I pay to keep it up and never look forward to going there.

I tend to think of all the crap that I should do while I am there, so I just put it out of mind and don't go.

If you live in the right place for you, you won't need so much distraction. Sometimes people say to me, "are you going anywhere this summer?" My answer is invariably "no, where would I prefer to be?"

If I could find a cheap way to spend a month each year in NYC, and a couple months at the beach in LA/Orange County in September and October, I would bite. But I suppose that is a tall order.

Ha

 

[freebird5825]

I am reading this thread with great interest. TY to all for your candid comments.
We are loosely formulating the 9.5 year plan to escape East Nowhere, and have the notion that we will rent. What we will not do is try to have someone maintain this house in the winter while we snowbird to a vacation or half year 2nd home. Too many true stories of burst pipes when the realtor was supposed to be checking the house regularly.
Plan A: We have already decided to relocate completely out of the state. It's just a question of what we can afford and where.
Plan B: If we can't afford a full move, we will sell this house to head southwest for the Finger Lakes of NY, which has a milder climate, longer summer and is truly beautiful.
Country living has become a cherished lifestyle for both of us. It's just way too remote and snowbound here.

 

[NW-Bound]

Thankfully, my island is blessed with ferry service... swimming in these frigid northwest waters is hazardous to ones health.

On the ferry from Nanaimo to Vancouver, we saw some of those islands. Later, found out that some offered B&B lodging and even luxurious hotels for visitors. I mentally made a note to add them to places to visit, along with other San Juan islands. Yeah, right. It only takes time, and of course money. I have yet to make an effort to stop by Lummi Island, the lowest hanging fruit, in a day trip when traveling between Seattle and Vancouver.

One more reason for me to get an RV...

bought a Florida gated condo last year as second home.

The distance for you to travel may be about the same we would have to travel if we bought a place in the Saanich Penninsula. My problem is that whenever I go, I always tell myself that it would be a neat place for a 2nd home. The difference between me and those billionaires who have 2 dozen houses throughout the world is that I do not have their billions. It's illogical, but a common weakness, I'd say.

I still own a country home in nice area, but I pay to keep it up and never look forward to going there.

I tend to think of all the crap that I should do while I am there, so I just put it out of mind and don't go.

If you live in the right place for you, you won't need so much distraction. Sometimes people say to me, "are you going anywhere this summer?" My answer is invariably "no, where would I prefer to be?"
Ha

If you neglect your 2nd place, how long will it remain standing? Yes, maintaining a 2nd home may become a chore.

Regarding how much use a second home sees on the average, I will have to say that it is not high. We use ours a lot more than other part-timers in our area. Owning our place for 4 years now, and going for a hike through the subdivision nearly every morning when we were up there, we saw some houses that were always vacant. Always. What was the point of the owners to keep the house?

If it weren't for my part-time work (which often requires face time), and my wife's need to watch her aging father, we would have split our time 50/50 between our 2 houses, which are 3 hrs apart but differ in elevation by several thousand feet. In other words, we can be snowbirds within our own state.

About "walkability", I suspect most of AZ would score very low. At my place in the metropolitan Phoenix, I am happy to have several grocery stores, Lowe's, Home Depot, and a library branch within a 3-4 mi radius. Walkability is a foreign concept to Southwestern state residents, I am afraid.

We are loosely formulating the 9.5 year plan to escape East Nowhere...

I admire people who can make such long-term plans. Most of the events in my life, be it career move or business decision, have gone wayward compared to my original plans. Yet, I tried to remain flexible and I survive so far. I now only make short-term plans and am open to more spontaneous happenings. I think it's more fun.

 

[freebird5825]

We are loosely formulating the 9.5 year plan to escape East Nowhere...

I admire people who can make such long-term plans. Most of the events in my life, be it career move or business decision, have gone wayward compared to my original plans. Yet, I tried to remain flexible and I survive so far. I now only make short-term plans and am open to more spontaneous happenings. I think it's more fun.

Well TY.
This escape plan falls more under the Acts of Desperation clause more than anything else.
I've been living [-]stuck[/-] here for 29 years now in the snow belt. Add 9.5 more and you get Enough!
We have to have a very long range plan (to save up) because although we will never be rich, we will be comfortable.
Recall he is 49.5 and I am 51, both in our "second lives". Just like 2 young kids starting out...in my case I have a better head start.
We'll get there.

 

[NW-Bound]

Apparently, there are solid reasons for the precise "9.5" number. Does it have to do with pensions, early SS, etc...? Why 9.5 and not 1.5?

 

[freebird5825]

Apparently, there are solid reasons for the precise "9.5" number. Does it have to do with pensions, early SS, etc...? Why 9.5 and not 1.5?

dh2b just passed his 10 yr mark as a fed in April 09. He will w*rk for a full 20 years until age 58 to get a halfway decent FERS retirement. He also did 20 years military, as enlisted.
He still pays out divorce/child support related monies, so his ability to save a lot is greatly hindered right now. Such is life.

Unless of course we win the NY Lottery......then we can buy that vacation home. Lakefront property in the Finger Lakes.

 

[W2R]

Why not just move there. I am kind of surprised by all the interest in 2nd homes, given that we have so many threads about LBYM and living simply.

There are things less simple and LBYM (unless one's means are huge) than a 2nd home, but not too many.

I couldn't agree more. For a while, I wondered if the interest in 2nd homes was due to insurmountable indecision. Somehow, I think not. I suppose there is an appeal that I just do not quite understand.

My neighborhood has a 98 walkscore. I really don't want to go very far away. I still own a country home in nice area, but I pay to keep it up and never look forward to going there.

I tend to think of all the crap that I should do while I am there, so I just put it out of mind and don't go.

Have you thought of selling it, some day? It doesn't sound like it is adding value to your life.

If you live in the right place for you, you won't need so much distraction. Sometimes people say to me, "are you going anywhere this summer?" My answer is invariably "no, where would I prefer to be?"

You sound so happy with your present location. There's a lot to be said for that. The cost of living there is high, but at least you are getting value for your money there. The walkability of the area sounds wonderful.

If I could find a cheap way to spend a month each year in NYC, and a couple months at the beach in LA/Orange County in September and October, I would bite. But I suppose that is a tall order.

I suppose it is.

 

[FIREd]

DW and I are thinking about buying a small condo in Europe. My family lives there and we visit several times a year. Right now we crash in my mom's guest room every time we go visit but it is a bit cramped. We would like more room, more freedom and feel more "at home". We would like to keep some of our stuff there permanently, such as our heavy winter clothes and European appliances, which we do not need here in the south (it would allow us to travel even lighter). My parents could look after the condo when we are not there and I already have some furniture (stored in my dad's garage) that I could use to furnish the place.

What's stopping us right now are the upkeep costs (condo fees, taxes, utilities, insurance, etc...). We could easily afford them, but mom's guest room is hard to beat cost wise. So, for now, we'd rather build our portfolio. But we might reconsider in a few years...

 

[NW-Bound]

...For a while, I wondered if the interest in 2nd homes was due to insurmountable indecision. Somehow, I think not. I suppose there is an appeal that I just do not quite understand.

In talking to the part-timers in the area of my 2nd home, I find that there are a couple of neighbors who enjoy their place as much as we do ours. The others look at their place as an investment. A believer in stocks and not real estate, I have told DW and myself that we should not expect to make big bucks out of it, if and whenever we sell. Considering taxes, insurance, maintenance costs, and other selling costs, if we break even, we should be happy that we get some free use out of it.

For now though, we love it. Lots of "walkability", actually more like hiking. I of course prefer to be on my motorcycle, cruising through forest service trails, the wind in my face and rustling over the pine tops

 

[lightspeed]

Not Fire'd yet, but we have had our 2nd home for a year--- a cabin in the woods, at Lake Tahoe. We enjoy every season up there for different reasons-- skiing in winter, water in summer, no crowds in fall and spring. I think we bought very close to the bottom of the market. I'm starting to see construction and resales pick up just in the last part of summer and this fall, but if you are interested in Tahoe, I don't think prices have started to rise yet. Owning a second home really has turned out way better than my expectations, and all the concerns about having it never materialized for us. Maintenance much less than anticpated. Very small place (800 s.f., 2BR, 1 Ba)= no maintenance (well, hardly any). We get up there 2-3 weekends/month. It takes 20 minutes to clean before we leave. I almost enjoy seeing an $17 electricity bill or $35 gas bill (our bills for this last month) compared to the bills for our McMansion primary home. HOA is $40/year which gives us private beach Lake Tahoe access less than a mile away. In the winter, one valve to turn off the water on Sunday when we leave, then turn it back on when we get there the next weekend. A couple of roomy sheds on the property to keep bikes, skis, watercraft, other toys, etc... means no hassles loading up the car-- really we just take a change of clothes and that's it. We get food there at a general store within cruiser bike distance. Truly a lock and leave place. Attempts to simplify my family's life at work/primary home have failed, so we see the cabin as the simplicity we crave and enjoy for at least part of our life, at least until I become FIRE'd. I'm sure we could rent a similar place, or even go to a luxury resort 2 weekends a month for way less than our mortgage (we have no primary home mortgage, and hope to have this one paid off in 3 years), but I am convinced for us it would not be the same.

 

[Ronstar]

Here's a question for all second home owners: How many weeks a year are you in the second home?

We do about 9 trips at 4-7 days each to our Az condo. A trip every month, except May/June and August. I pop in in July just to experience a little heat. I spend more time there for baseball spring training in Feb/march. After we fully retire, we'll lessen the number of trips and increase the lengths of stay.

 

[kat]

I use my second home in the mountains more than I use my first home in a city 85 miles away. My use is about 67% country, 33% city.

If I sell one, I will sell the city home and rent for a few months a year. But every time I sit down and think through selling the city home, I decide not to. Recently I put it on the 18 month plan, i.e. get it in shape to sell in the spring 2011 if I decide to, the same spring I intend to stop my attorney registration and officially retire (already really retired).

Truth is I like both places, in NE New York and Mid Vermont. The smartest thing I did was buy where I can go on a whim. I feel so free!

 

[RunningBum]

I live in a resort where most of the homes are second homes. On my street, for example, there are 15 homes, and just 2 of us are full-timers. One is a rental, and the rest are vacation homes. Some people rarely use them, while others are up just about every ski weekend and holiday, along with various other times throughout the year. Many of them have a full set of friends here, and leaving would be nearly as traumatic as moving away from their main home. I know some also have plans to come live here full time after they retire.

 

[Moemg]

Just curious , do you second home owners also travel to other places ? I would not mind having a second home near my daughter that I could use for a few months a year but this would take up my travel budget .

 

[lightspeed]

Just curious , do you second home owners also travel to other places ? I would not mind having a second home near my daughter that I could use for a few months a year but this would take up my travel budget .

Ours is close enough to our primary home where I really consider it a "weekend home" rather than a "vacation home" where we might spend, say a week of vacation. So having owned it for one year, we still took a cruise, a trip to Hawaii, and a trip to Disneyworl, and a few weekends to local destinations by car.

 

[Sea Kayaker]

i'm starting to think that a pre-cut cabin package might be the ticket for my DW and I..... just need to brush up my carpentry skills and bribe some friends with beer and food to give us a hand.

A bit of research on the ol' internet suggests and a cabin package for a nice looking 1400 sq. ft cottage can be had for $60000 to $70000. Of course, this doesn't include foundation work, electrical, plumbing, drywall etc.

 

[DAYDREAMER]

We just bought a second home on the beach that is 4 miles away from our current residence. This is a very comfortable 1100 easily maintained beach house that we will retire to in 15 to 20 years. My parents will be living in it and taking care of it and paying for the Taxes during thier retirement. The whole family will get to enjoy this place through the years, because, when we visit our parents, we are also visiting the beach house. MY boat is on the Buoy right now, awaiting another cruise.

Never thought we would have a second home, but this was a once in a lifetime opportunity we couldn't let by. Now we know where we will be during our retirement, and it is pretty close to heaven.

 

[calmloki]

Just let a chance go by to pick up a place in Superior Az for $51,000 + 10% buyers premium and closing costs. It was an auction of some stinky assets from a failed bank. The auctioned off pool included a 4% $188k loan due to reset in a couple years - currently 3 payments in arrears at 33xx Jefferson PHX, a $199k 9.9% loan 2 payments in arrears at 54xx W Ajo Way in Ajo Az, and the foreclosed home in Superior at 1xx N. Saguaro. None of the places looked like anything we wanted to own, the Superior house came the closest. Still, a bunch of assets - roughly like buying $$387k worth of property loans for 15.5% of the amount due on them and getting the vacant house in Superior for free. Nasty looking places though and I didn't want to go through all the hassle of learning about the collection/foreclosure process out of our state... Had I known they were going to go so cheap..... Amazing that anyone loaned that much on them - almost makes a guy think there might have been some fraudulent appraisal going on...

 

[haha]

Ajo is an old Phelps Dodge Mining town, and I believe a Superfund site. I would think these kinds of things might get tricky, with contingent liabilities way out of proportion the the assets involved.

Ha

 

[calmloki]

Ajo is an old Phelps Dodge Mining town, and I believe a Superfund site. I would think these kinds of things might get tricky, with contingent liabilities way out of proportion the the assets involved.

Ha

I've been to Ajo - a real pretty plaza and the pit is easily visible on Google earth - Superior is also a mining town that is busily dying after the mining shut down - but darn good Mexican food and in a bowl of rock that reminded me of Sedona. Be that as it may, the lure of the cheap (it runs strong in him, yes it do) was tempered by the effort, risk, and a certain non-smiling and definitely not interested face. (but it was cheeeeeeep!)

 

[M Paquette]

Why not just move there. I am kind of surprised by all the interest in 2nd homes, given that we have so many threads about LBYM and living simply.

There are things less simple and LBYM (unless one's means are huge) than a 2nd home, but not too many.

My neighborhood has a 98 walkscore. I really don't want to go very far away. I still own a country home in nice area, but I pay to keep it up and never look forward to going there.

Heh, heh. DW has an emotional attachment to this huge tract home we are currently in, in spite of two of three kids being launched, to opposite corners of the country. (One 600 miles away, another on the opposite coast.) The third one is in college now.

My Sekrit Planz (shhhh!) are to get a second home in a very walkable neighborhood, with an environment we both like, and gradually turn it into a primary home. The places I'm looking at have very high walk scores, are close to medical facilities, recreation, and entertainment.

 

[haha]

Heh, heh. DW has an emotional attachment to this huge tract home we are currently in, in spite of two of three kids being launched, to opposite corners of the country. (One 600 miles away, another on the opposite coast.) The third one is in college now.

My Sekrit Planz (shhhh!) are to get a second home in a very walkable neighborhood, with an environment we both like, and gradually turn it into a primary home. The places I'm looking at have very high walk scores, are close to medical facilities, recreation, and entertainment.

Those are my criteria too. If I were not committed to Seattle where my family is, I might consider NYC or LA beach communities. A really large city right on swimmable beaches is very hard to beat. And depending on where you live, LA is mostly walkable, though you may want to get in your car to grab entertainment 15 or 20 miles away. When I lived in Venice Beach other than driving to work I mostly walked.

I think your plan should work as your wife will likely be seduced by the much greater opportunities for pleasure in the type of neighborhood that you are heading toward.

IMO medical is important too. There is a big difference between any bunch of doctors, and a really great medical center. Also a big difference in having your doctors and hospitals 10 or 15 minutes away vs a long car trip and maybe overnight stays or exhausting trips home late at night.

I formerly lived where many of the permanent residents were retired, and when they got old or unlucky their lives tended to turn into long emotionally or physically painful trips to the city.

Ha

 

[NW-Bound]

I am kind of surprised by all the interest in 2nd homes, given that we have so many threads about LBYM and living simply.

Isn't that a contradiction? I don't know about others, but I will share my circumstances here.

After disassociating myself from the startups where I labored long and hard hours with little income to show for it, I started doing consulting just by myself and made good money again, starting in 2003. My wife had not walked off her Megacorp where she had 25 yrs of seniority. The market rise was wonderful in the 2003-2007 period, and I got into all the right stocks after realizing I should not expect my beloved tech stocks to ever reclaim their glory in 2000.

During the previous lean years, we were even more stingy than our nature, and now money kept rolling in. Other people would have "upgraded" their main residence, but we were fine with our 25-yr old house. Why would I want something bigger than 2800 sq.ft.? Remember that houses in Phoenix were and are a steal compared to California, and mine didn't cost me an arm and a leg.

My father died during this time after several years of bad health, and I was in emotional distress. Damn it, I will not be able to take it with me, and I've got some "pent-up" demands here. And my means were expanding.

So, I rebalanced my assets into intangible personal wealth (read travel), and another house to escape from the heat, also as a dream house for our eventual retirement. We were still LBYM when we bought it, but may be living right at our means now, I think.

If you live in the right place for you, you won't need so much distraction.

How very true! In my case, as explained in a thread that I started, we both have extended family in town. As my screen name says it, I prefer to be in the Puget Sound, but we will stay here for a few more years. Eventually, when our parents are gone, and nieces and nephews and our own kids disperse throughout the country to pursue their jobs, I very likely will pack up and consolidate to one house where I will be happy staying year round. I will be sure to have room to park an RV too. A barn for it even.

We do about 9 trips at 4-7 days each to our Az condo. A trip every month, except May/June and August. I pop in in July just to experience a little heat. I spend more time there for baseball spring training in Feb/march. After we fully retire, we'll lessen the number of trips and increase the lengths of stay.

Seems like you like to play snowbirds, perhaps due to roots in your state.

Ajo is an old Phelps Dodge Mining town, and I believe a Superfund site. I would think these kinds of things might get tricky, with contingent liabilities way out of proportion the the assets involved.

I drive by Ajo every time we go to Puerto Penasco (Rocky Point), Mexico. Never wander off the highway that cuts right through town, so I do not know much about the place. It does not look like an interesting small town to me.