When did you see the light?

[Leonidas]

Wonder if there is some kind of taekwondo / chess geek connection. Oldest son founded the chess club at his school and there are weeks where it seems like he spends more time doing taekwondo than he does at home.

The light kept shining in my face for years. Similar experience when I was a kid as Justin - except it was a 67 Ford in a roadside park. Made me obsessed with LBYM and FI. Made some money in my early 20's and didn't have a clue what to do with it - except try and spend it. Partner at work, who must have been born thinking about FIRE, spent a lot of time educating me until I broke down and started investing.

Became FI early, thanks to the market of the 90's, and my attitude about work did change. Unlike MasterBlaster's experience, there were days when the boss could still be a jerk and some of my coworkers could occasionaly be counted among the dimmer bulbs. The difference for me was that I knew if it got to be too much for me to handle that I could just walk out the door. I got the corner office (on a much lower floor in the building) and that's when it really sucked. I looked at the money, saw a unhappy future at work, and then remembered that I had a real life somewhere that was fun. I couldn't deny the light anymore.

I think I might go look for a coffee shop where they're playing chess.

Thanks to Rich for starting this thread. It has been a great read.

 

[ERD50]

There was a light for me - about age 30 - in the mid 1980's.

Our department was hiring at the time, and my (large) company held a job fair. I was asked to screen people for later in-depth interviews. That afternoon, dozens of guys in their 50's came up to my table. They had all been recently laid off from a very large 'old school' type company. They had counted on lifetime employment there- but times changed. Their skills were outdated.

I will never forget the look on their faces as I (25 years their junior) told them that their skills didn't match our needs, we would not be contacting them. It was sad.

It was a long afternoon of repeat performances. I swore I would never allow myself to be in their position (if I could help it). I was already pretty good at LBYM, but I started learning more about investing, and put some added effort into keeping my skills up-to-date.

Even if you don't plan on early retirement, it might happen to you. It is good to be prepared.

The odd thing is, I did stay with my company for almost 30 years, which did help with health/dental insurance, which did help me to FIRE.

-ERD50

 

[Mwsinron]

Hard work and some luck honestly. DW and I are natural savers. Next thing we knew we had a good portion saved and realized ER was within our grasp within a decade.

 

[Scrooge]

Even if you don't plan on early retirement, it might happen to you. It is good to be prepared.

I think that's one of the more important lessons here. You may like your career now and plan to continue indefinitely, but how can you be sure that you will still like it 10-20+ years from now? Or that the field won't change beyond all recognition? Or that you will be able to keep up with the rapidly changing field in the decades to come and still enjoy what you do even as your body slows down?

So be prepared and remember that old ad - "cash is the ultimate shock absorber" 

 

[renferme]

I saw the light right from the beginning... but, with 2 kids and putting them first, I could only save the minimum in my 401k in order to get the maximum match from the company. When the kids graduated from college, the 2 bathrooms needed to be fixed (total gut and rebuild). After that the wife became the ex-wife and took everything but my accumulated pension value.
So, at about age 48, I started virtually from scratch - saved and invested like crazy and retired at age 57.5 - that was 2.5 years ago. My new wife of 4 years now,
continues to work and of course, that's a big help. And me? ...
I work part-time 6 months of the year and play golf as much as possible.

Scrooge,
Some years ago, maybe about 6 or 7, predicitions for systems analysts, systems programmers, programmer analysts, and most IT careers were sky high.
Things quickly changed: almost all IT shops ceased developing their own programs and systems and were replaced by off the shelf software coming from places like SAP et.al. There went the predictions... out the window.
Many old time mainframers lost their jobs and were replaced by young kids coming right out of college... kids whose salaries were less than half we oldtimers. Anyway,, you can never count on anything, things change too fast today.

 

[TromboneAl]

I'm going to see if I can introduce the light to my nephew and niece (13 and 15) when visiting this month. I'm going to keep it simple, and say this:

I'm going to tell you a secret about life that most people don't know:

1. Lottery winners, after an initial period of a few months, return to their pre-winning level of happiness. That shows you that buying stuff won't make you happier.

2. If you buy less stuff, and LBYM, you can easily save enough money that you don't have to work, and you can do whatever you want while you're still young enough to do it.

 

[Scrooge]

Scrooge,
Some years ago, maybe about 6 or 7, predicitions for systems analysts, systems programmers, programmer analysts, and most IT careers were sky high.
Things quickly changed:  almost all IT shops ceased developing their own programs and systems and were replaced by off the shelf software coming from places like SAP et.al.    There went the predictions... out the window.
Many old time mainframers lost their jobs and were replaced by young kids coming right out of college...  kids whose salaries were less than half we oldtimers.

Now that the dotcom crash and subsequent massacre are behind us, there is a lot of demand for IT professionals and not just young ones. A friend of mine, who is in his 40s and very much au courant with the cutting edge of the Intrenet-Java-AJAX world, is doing great. If he decided to quit his current job, he would have 10 offers within days.

However, that's the cutting edge of the field. I know IT professionals in their 40s who are familiar with one (old) thing and one thing only. They live in fear of losing their jobs and being unable to find a new one. At best, they may be able to find a place within some slow moving government agency or SUX MegaCorp that hasn't upgraded in 15 years.

I am in between these two extremes myself. I know some really ancient stuff that is fading away as we speak type as well as some not-so-ancient stuff. With luck, I will transition to the not-so-ancient stuff that I could enjoy doing and stay there for a few more years while feathering the next and planning what to do when I finally pull the plug. We'll see  

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I got a couple of twenty-something working class family members to see the light, at least a little bit. Told them what the money they spent on the sandwich they were eating would be worth in 20 years, and in 40 when they retired, if they invested it. Then told them about pretax plans and how they can help them save AND cut their taxes.

I think the realization that they were eating a $50 sandwich made them wake up a little bit. Guess it wasnt that good of a sandwich.

A few months later both were contributing to a pretax plan. Just a little. But its a start.

 

[Nords]

I'm going to see if I can introduce the light to my nephew and niece (13 and 15) when visiting this month.  I'm going to keep it simple, and say this:

So how's that approach working with your daughter?

 

[LOL!]

I was in 8th grade.  I had two paper routes and wanted to go to Mexico.  My parents said, you have a job, save your money and pay for the trip.     So I saved and paid for my two week trip to Mexico.  Ever since I have been saving money.

After 10th grade, I got a job in a pizza place.  I mailed my paychecks away to another state because the savings accounts there had a higher interest rate much like folks use Emigrant or ING or HSBC nowdays.  My boss always joked that I was the only person in the place who didn't cash their paycheck right away.

After college (had to pay for that myself thanks to my parents), I set up a systematic plan to have enough investments by age 40 such that ROI on those investments could replace my salary.  I exceeded that goal by a wide margin thanks to a working spouse whose salary we could live off of.

I guess I could shorten the story: I have always been a natural saver who lives well below my means.  Now that I am older, I don't mind spending money at all.

 

[Nords]

I was in 8th grade.  I had two paper routes and wanted to go to Mexico.  My parents said, you have a job, save your money and pay for the trip.     So I saved and paid for my two week trip to Mexico.  Ever since I have been saving money.
After college (had to pay for that myself thanks to my parents), I set up a systematic plan to have enough investments by age 40 such that ROI on those investments could replace my salary.  I exceeded that goal by a wide margin thanks to a working spouse whose salary we could live off of.

It sounds like the less your parents did for you, the more you learned...

 

[RockMiner]

My light grew slowly over the years...raised in a frugal middle class family. Money wasn't for spending, eegad! Took me years to learn how to waste spend it. Used to get a cold sweat buying my favorite collectables but did it anyway. Eventually made a decent salary and always maxed the 401k, always paid off debt and paid down house notes ASAP. Not a good investor but a determined saver. Now nearly 50, burnt out on my occupation but financially solid enough to semi-ER. DW will work another 5 years or so to allow investments to firm up while I try to find an interesting p/t job and reactivate old interests.

 

[greg]

I had a job as a dishwasher/busboy at new restaurant. We had a young waitress staff. Late one evening after the place closed, a couple of the waitresses were arguing about their . . . um . . . boob size. The argument revolved around whether or not they could put a can of deodorant under their bosums and have it 'not drop.' We busboys contributed $5 each and asked the nicer one to prove it. She did. We lost our money. I saw the light about saving/having/making money . . . um . . . for retirement.

 

[Nords]

We busboys contributed $5 each and asked the nicer one to prove it.  She did.   We lost our money.  I saw the light about saving/having/making money  . . . um . . . for retirement.

Apparently she saw the light before you guys did...

 

[MasterBlaster]

This scientific test strikes me as a great value for a mere $5.

You did verify the results in person I take it.

That's good that you recognized the value of a dollar at such an early age.

 

[deserat]

This is very timely - I saw the 'light' on using my own savings for retirement and studying investing/etc and then extending to FIRE when I was 27, had just finished my master's in biomedical engineering and was talking with an 'older' engineer in the office.  He asked me if I'd signed up for the 403b - I looked at him like he was speaking Swahili - he then tried to explain to me what it was - I hemmed and hawed.....he then pretty much grabbed me by the ear and dragged me to Personnel and set me up with my 403b.  I just got the opportunity to personally thank him for that-called him up and told him his 'intervention' helped me get where I am and where I'm going to be.

After that, reading books (the Terhorsts, Millionaire Next Door, the Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need, Your Money or Your LIfe, the Tightwad Gazettes, etc, etc,....) and finding people like you all on this board - it propels you forward - but you gotta 'see the light' first, I guess.

Deserat

 

[MasterBlaster]

This is very timely - I saw the 'light' on using my own savings for retirement and studying investing/etc and then extending to FIRE when I was 27, had just finished my master's in biomedical engineering and was talking with an 'older' engineer in the office. He asked me if I'd signed up for the 403b - I looked at him like he was speaking Swahili - he then tried to explain to me what it was - I hemmed and hawed.....he then pretty much grabbed me by the ear and dragged me to Personnel and set me up with my 403b. I just got the opportunity to personally thank him for that-called him up and told him his 'intervention' helped me get where I am and where I'm going to be.

After that, reading books (the Terhorsts, Millionaire Next Door, the Only Investment Guide You'll Ever Need, Your Money or Your LIfe, the Tightwad Gazettes, etc, etc,....) and finding people like you all on this board - it propels you forward - but you gotta 'see the light' first, I guess.

Deserat

Desert Rat:

I tried to tell one of the new hires fresh out of school something like that. I asked if they'd like me to tell em' what I should have known when I first started working - That the money they save when they are young is the money that really snowballs.

The reaction I got was - Yeah but who cares about the money when you are old. I just want the money now... It's not worth it. Blah Blah Blah

I gave up. They have their own values. Let em work till they drop.

 

[Scrooge]

The reaction I got was - Yeah but who cares about the money when you are old. I just want the money now... It's not worth it. Blah Blah Blah

I gave up. They have their own values. Let em work till they drop.

I wonder if most of us, LBYM types, find it relatively easy to LBYM while most spenders would find it hard even if they agreed that it's a good idea in theory? Or is it largely an education question? Would most people practice LBYM if only they could clearly see its benefits down the road? Or would they still refuse to save because immediate gratification is just too hard for them to give up, even a little bit?

 

[Mwsinron]

I wonder if most of us, LBYM types, find it relatively easy to LBYM while most spenders would find it hard even if they agreed that it's a good idea in theory? Or is it largely an education question? Would most people practice LBYM if only they could clearly see its benefits down the road? Or would they still refuse to save because immediate gratification is just too hard for them to give up, even a little bit?

I have wondered that too. Maybe its just how people value things. Frankly I value my free time more than needing that designer T shirt. Possibly people who like expensive things and live to the max of their income enjoy that. Maybe they dont care if they need to w*rk till 70. I totally cannot relate to people who think if they can afford the monthly payment while already having substantial debt that they should purchase that item anyways.

 

[Andy]

Grew up in a very frugal household.  I knew how much they made and even as a child was impressed with how far they made it go. For instance we lived in a nicer house than people I knew made more money than my Mom and Dad. My Dad was a good repairperson and would get a lot of use out of something instead of just discarding it.

I also remember clearly in 2nd grade being told the definition of Spartan and thinking "That's me".  I also thought it wasn't most of the class.

When I was in junior high one of my uncles gave me $10.  I saved $5 and impulsively bought a dress with the other $5(early 60's).  After just a couple of weeks, that dress went on sale and I realized that I could have had more-either savings or dresses-if I had waited and shopped better.  That was most certainly an aha moment

My family growing up never invested in anything  but a savings account.  Other stuff was too risky.   My now ex husband's family however invested in bonds and mutual funds etc.  so I gradually learned more about that and became more comfortable investing that way.

Ever since my first job-delivering papers with my brother (his route, because girls weren't allowed to have routes at that time : I have lived below my means and saved something.   It has paid off.  

 

[Danny]

I had a job as a dishwasher/busboy at new restaurant. We had a young waitress staff. Late one evening after the place closed, a couple of the waitresses were arguing about their . . . um . . . boob size. The argument revolved around whether or not they could put a can of deodorant under their bosums and have it 'not drop.' We busboys contributed $5 each and asked the nicer one to prove it. She did. We lost our money. I saw the light about saving/having/making money . . . um . . . for retirement.

You did well my son...
Obi

 

[spideyrdpd]

Hi
   I try to talk younger workers and younger family into doing more savings and more planning. Mostly they just say yeah and whatever  But I have gotten a few to start investing in the 401k and looking a little more closely at things. Of course I started investing and saving at 13. When I graduated college I had just spent yrs with kids with "richdads" that loved to spend. I guess I just followed suit.
Rob
PS I like the busboy story . Wonder if that would work with some of the nurses here... hmmm

 

[spideyrdpd]

Hi
   I try to talk younger workers and younger family into doing more savings and more planning. Mostly they just say yeah and whatever  But I have gotten a few to start investing in the 401k and looking a little more closely at things. Of course I started investing and saving at 13. When I graduated college I had just spent yrs with kids with "richdads" that loved to spend. I guess I just followed suit.
Rob
PS I like the busboy story . Wonder if that would work with some of the nurses here... hmmm

Another modification- if you read the funny papers the financial pushers they all say that you cant early retire. They even make it sound hard or impossible cause of the increased life expectancy. SO the general media makes it sound like mission impossible.

 

[lazygood4nothinbum]

I wonder if most of us, LBYM types, find it relatively easy to LBYM while most spenders would find it hard even if they agreed that it's a good idea in theory? Or is it largely an education question? Would most people practice LBYM if only they could clearly see its benefits down the road? Or would they still refuse to save because immediate gratification is just too hard for them to give up, even a little bit?

I have wondered that too. Maybe its just how people value things.

as i've mentioned in another post, even if fate determines what we experience, free will allows us to determine how we experience that experience.

would i have greater net worth had i parents who didn't keep the tanks on the boats & in the cars filled with fuel? would i have learned more if my life was financially burdened?

my ol'man (step-dad from when i was a young teen) came from a family with a ton of cash, including one of the largest regional (major metro) companies in its field. he walked away from it and from his family to start his own very successful small business.

my biological dad came from an entertainment family also with a ton of cash. his mom was a flapper who married into a then-famous family. must have been some scandal or just general disfunction because my grandfather would later have nothing to do with her or even him. i only met my paternal grandpa twice in my life.

two people with big family money, one who ran from family, the other was thrown away. one who taught himself how to make money, the other who spent life scraping by.

sure, a background can give you a foot up. but unless you take that step, even the best foundation is nothing but shakey ground. you can inherit a million bucks and be broke next year or you can join an early retirement support group and learn how to make the money last.

you can be born in a slum and continue through life thinking the world is against you or you can be raised in the back seat of a car and wind up driving your own arnage though life.

you can have an aha moment and work towards that new found goal. you can live the life you've known without such a goal yet suddenly realize, hey, i don't have to do this anymore, do i? how cool is that?

now can you teach anyone about early retirement? can you show them the light? is it proper to proselytize er? there's been plenty of good advice too inconvenient to heed and likely some bad information i've conveniently accepted as true. i don't think anyone ever taught me anything. i think sometimes i closed my eyes and sometimes i opened them to the light that was always there. and now i'm just hoping that i can learn enough to keep myself throughout retirement in the black.

 

[Cal]

I'm curious...those of you that are willing to share...

How do your offspring handle the "FIRE" gospel? Twenty years ago, my (then new) step-father tried telling me all of this. He was a real penny pincher, but would buy good value items. He saved a good chunk of his money and educated himself about investments.

Unfortunately, I have a hard head and no matter how many times someone tells me something, I just gotta figure it out for myself. Must be a slow learner...it took me almost 15 years to "get it".

Obviously, many of you have "gotten it" and saved, LBYM and educated yourself about investments. But do your kids "get it"? Have they learned from your example? Are they caught up in the consumer-keep-up with the Joneses crap? Do they "listen" to you when you talk about saving and investing?