Career advice for one of my kids

I was struck by his wondering what engineers do, as this is a logical question and can be a real detriment to motivation. Why study French when you don't know any French people? Get a French girlfriend then all of a sudden things are different.

I'd suggest a little time off and take on some internships where he can work with engineers in different fields. Then he can be motivated toward a field he is interested in.

My uncle was an automotive engineer and it was a motivation for me to pursue the same field as I could see both what he did for a living and the fruits of his labor personally and professionally.
 
Get a degree and then become a Naval Aviator like I did. Do crazy bat **** stupid stuff and live to tell about it. Travel the world with a bunch of other aggressive Alpha types and live a life for 5 or 6 years that you will never forget.


Then go on to a ho hum life like everyone else.
 
The luckiest thing for me, was ending up at a school with a required co-op program. I was suffering in my first couple of years of engineering school. Was someone going to ask me to solve a calculus program when I finally got a job? But my first co-op was with a large chemical company in a production area. Took about 3 weeks to realize I already knew as much or more than most of the people I was working with. Gave me a new plan. Just get the damn sheep skin! It all worked out. And I never had to solve a linear equation.....

My wife had an engineering degree also. Hated the work. She went back to school and got an accounting degree and her CPA. She finished up with a much easier job than I had, and she made the same money. And we used to make fun of the accounting majors.
 
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We all were suffering in Engineering school. How to make it easier?

I asked my advisor about this "interdisciplinary engineering" program.

He said it's good because you have a lot more electives on classes.

So I thought, hmmm, sounds good, easier - :)

But he added that nobody with that degree had gotten a job.

Hmmm, OK, I'll just gut out EE. I mean, I want the job with the dough eh?

Yeah, glad I got that BSEE, it served me well throughout my career - :)
 
I'm glad you are listening to your sons concerns about his classes and the toughness of them, but like him I never made it to a 4-year college as when I graduated high school, I was already enlisted to enter the Navy and when I did serve my time honorably, I still never knew what I wanted to be when I grew up. So, when I got out of the Navy I got hired at a chemical company as an operator being in charge of mixing some very explosive chemicals together and decided that wasn't for me and learned how to get into an apprenticeship program thru the company to beable to fix the issues with the equipment that was breaking down for more the hands-on application. I worked with many engineers thru my years and many times have bailed them out as my 4 years spent going thru technical school along with on-the-job training plus learning the physics, the math and sciences made me a good living so I always tell young kids try the hands on as you definitely will use your brain with your hands. Now later on in my life I'm finishing up my career in the Management Area teaching the younger ones my knowledge not everyone needs a degree to make lots of money
 
Masquernom said:
The luckiest thing for me, was ending up at a school with a required co-op program. .....
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+1000

My school had Co-op for all engineering students. The first time was a bore. I copied the red mark-ups from reviewers onto the 10 more copies they needed (hey, this was 1974).

Before I graduated I had done a complete survey for a new sewer system for the town of Barrington R.I., completed a fair portion of the design, and reviewed all the bids for the work.

That was when I realized the school work was NOT what what I would be doing. It was a means to an end.
 
RobbieB said:
We all were suffering in Engineering school. How to make it easier?

I asked my advisor about this "interdisciplinary engineering" program.

He said it's good because you have a lot more electives on classes.

So I thought, hmmm, sounds good, easier - :)

But he added that nobody with that degree had gotten a job.

Hmmm, OK, I'll just gut out EE. I mean, I want the job with the dough eh?

Yeah, glad I got that BSEE, it served me well throughout my career - :)
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When I was about a junior in my mechanical engineering program, my college introduced an industrial engineering degree program. Several of us took a look at the curriculum and it sure looked a lot easier than what we had ahead of us. I went to my advisor and asked him what he thought about the new degree. He told me it was for students that couldn't make it through the ME program. I toughed it out from there. No slight intended for the IE's out there.
 
At my alma mater all engineering disciplines take about the same core classes. That would suggest he look outside of engineering, but . . . it sure looks like he’s been aiming to be an engineer his entire life! I wonder if something else is going on. We had 5 kids, so I know a little bit about keeping parents in the dark on some things. When my kids went to college (one still does) I had joint access to their savings and checking accounts. Besides being super convenient to keeping them funded, I could more easily “follow the money” and see or suspect what was going on. Are you sure there’s nothing else going on? If not, I’d recommend a business or accounting career path. After that, we have a fair amount of sales and marketing types with degrees all over the map, like history, economics, English, etc.
 
CardsFan said:
+1000

My school had Co-op for all engineering students. The first time was a bore. I copied the red mark-ups from reviewers onto the 10 more copies they needed (hey, this was 1974).

Before I graduated I had done a complete survey for a new sewer system for the town of Barrington R.I., completed a fair portion of the design, and reviewed all the bids for the work.

That was when I realized the school work was NOT what what I would be doing. It was a means to an end.
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On my second co-op, I was in a big corporate project group. We had a project to rehab an existing, old production building. Our manager walked down the aisle between the cubicles and tossed folders with portions of the projects mechanical scope to several of the ME's in our group. He tossed one in my cubicle. It was updating all the utilities for the building, plant air, nitrogen, steam, condensate, etc.. I sat there the rest of the day and thought about it. I went into his office the next morning. I told him I was just the co-op, and had only been there a couple of weeks. Maybe he didn't realize it? He looked at me very seriously and said "I'd rather have you do that work than most of the engineers I have out there". That was all I needed to hear. I started researching steam traps, and pipe sizing. All the things they didn't teach us in college. In hind sight, he was probably right. Most of the other engineers in that group were only interested in moving into sales or management. I'm not sure I'd want any of them designing much either.
Around the 1970's, engineering salaries took a big jump. It was very striking to me how things changed. We had a few women in our freshman class. They had only added women's restrooms to the classroom buildings a few years before I started. Used to only be women's facilities in the admin building for the secretaries. You could pick out the seniors because their clothes were more worn out. Guys just wore their high school clothes till they wore out. By the time I graduated in the early 1980's, the freshman class had a lot of women, I saw everyone was in stylish clothes. Engineering had kind of changed from a program you entered because you liked the technical challenge, to a degree you got just to make the big bucks.
When I started my full time job, I found things changing between my co-ops and direct hiring. During my co-op's I'd worked mainly with the old guys. We talked about how to fix things and make things work better. My new co-workers talked about how to move into management fastest. Engineering seemed to have changed from technical support, to management track.
 
I also concur with earlier poster(s) about Industrial Engineering. It is broader based, and more multi-disciplined. Focuses more on project management , business processes, etc - but requires working knowledge of various engineering disciplines

It can go by different names at different colleges.

When I got my degree, it required coursework in electrical engineering, materiel science engineering, mechanical engineering, etc - to have the broad based working knowledge to be able to manage those areas.

Many of IEs go into project management or process management. Process management major employers include medical field, logistics and manufacturing.
 
He could start out with working toward an associates degree in Mechanical Engineering Technology which is us much more applied than theoretical, and could always work toward the BS in Mechanical Engineering later.
 
Another engineer here... BS, MS, PhD, PE. Went to a school with mandatory co-op.

We used to refer to engineering as pre-Business because of the number of people who switched majors.

I concur with many of the comments made here. I was fortunate to have a co-op job with a small company doing high tech work - only a little over 100 people when I started so you knew EVERYONE and everyone knew YOU. I was ahead in school (completed the normally 5 year degree at age 21). During my first couple of years of school, I was not too excited about the core courses and wondered if this was the right thing for me. When I was 18 and on my second co-op, I happened to be the person in charge of a new 3D visualization system, real time rotation (Evans and Sutherland Picture System 2, IIRC, for those who might know about it). In the 1970s, this was very state of the art, and we had one of a few of these set up in the eastern half of the US. Not much standard software to run it, everything was done custom. Our CEO, a PhD and former prof, had a friend at another University who needed some help visualizing some vibration test data he had, so I was tapped to do this. Turns out it was for the space shuttle which was being developed. Those few days with this prof from another school, me driving the computer and being his lackey, him understanding what he was seeing, and being very patient and explaining it to me, opened my eyes to what I could do in a way that I can't describe. When it finally launched, it was very personal to me.

My $.02, if he's not into it now, and doesn't find a way to get excited about it like I did, his time may be better spent looking at alternatives. It's not for everyone. :)
 
I have zero specific knowledge, but my take is: OP's son must have some general interest in engineering, or he wouldn't have started in that major. Use the break between this semester and the next to explore positions that involve engineering but do not require being an engineer. He may find something that feeds his overall joy of engineering, but doesn't require the tough engineering classes.
Our military could be another consideration. Finally, I'm sure the college can provide some guidance.
 
latexman said:
Are you sure there’s nothing else going on?
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Not 100% sure.

I think he's been trying to make it work because he does like parts of the ME degree, and I think he wants to be successful and respected and saw ME as a good path to that. I think he's genuinely been trying to make it work.

I think he has been stressed out a lot about the ME thing not working for him, and what I or others might think, and his school being expensive, and not being sure what other paths might be out there, and not being sure how to find those other paths or if they would work out to get him where he wants to go.

I think he's pretty content with his current school and girlfriend and roommate.

I also think he's not in the situation where he can just "power through it". There are too many classes he's not interested in taking - like half of his remaining curriculum instead of just one or two classes. And he's only halfway through rather than just a semester or a year left.
 
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SecondCor521 said:
Not 100% sure.

I think he's been trying to make it work because he does like parts of the ME degree, and I think he wants to be successful and respected and saw ME as a good path to that. I think he's genuinely been trying to make it work.

I think he has been stressed out a lot about the ME thing not working for him, and what I or others might think, and his school being expensive, and not being sure what other paths might be out there, and not being sure how to find those other paths or if they would work out to get him where he wants to go.

I think he's pretty content with his current school and girlfriend and roommate.

I also think he's not in the situation where he can just "power through it". There are too many classes he's not interested in taking - like half of his remaining curriculum instead of just one or two classes. And he's only halfway through rather than just a semester or a year left.
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This all fairly common for a young college kid. But reading replies here saying swap this or do an internship or it worked out for me are not what he needs to hear.



Some of his classes are very likely to be some general classes so not much ground has been lost. It's hard to switch off the "this isn't working for me" mindset and go to the "let me look at some other path" mindset. Bright kids are worried about making another "mistake", they are not used to having their plans not work out. In your shoes I'd keep saying" this is not a failure, it's a change in direction".



If he likes the school, the girlfriend and the roommate let him riff for next Fall semester. Try a class of this and a class of that. Better for him to get his confidence back and then go forward. I know it's expensive but you have his back and that's the important thing.


Maybe just hearing the words I have your back son, you'll get it figured out can help him think more clearly.
 
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If class "drop day" has passed, or he cannot drop for some other reason, then he's stuck*, and he needs to "suck it up buttercup" and do the best he can. He's in damage control mode, so hire tutors, obtain old tests (I hope he has a friend(s) at a fraternity), leech onto the professor and TAs, limit GF time, burn the midnight oil, etc. He's only got about 4 more weeks to go before end of semester! Pedal to the metal!

* There is a "get out of jail card". It's a medical leave. Do not pull this trigger unless it's a real emergency! One of my 5 kids had to go this route. He had a couple medical issues flare up.

Then, over the summer he needs to figure out his next step - ME, other-Engineer, non-Engineer. I would not advise summer school. He needs time off from school and to think, but if he has a summer job he can go back to, I would recommend that. Talking to peers is mostly good.

Of course, all this is contingent on what he actually does the next 4 weeks and on finals.

Be careful about riffing off a semester in Engineering, some classes are only offered in specific semesters, so it could easily become riffing off an entire year.
 
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SecondCor521 said:
Hi all.

My son is a college sophomore at a school he seems to like, and was working towards a degree in mechanical engineering. He's been struggling.

Today in a phone call we seem to have arrived at the conclusion that mechanical engineering is probably not the right degree for him.

He isn't doing well in some of the core classes, isn't looking forward to some of the remaining core classes. He generally isn't happy and also seems very stressed out to me. He also says he doesn't have a very good idea of what mechanical engineers actually *do*, which makes it even more difficult for him to pursue it.

The stress in the phone call seemed to me to subside a fair amount once we started talking about alternative options and taking steps to investigate other choices.

I'm seeking input for (a) what other fields to consider, and (b) how to go about career counseling.

As far as (a) goes, here's what I know about him that might be relevant:

He's very smart and pretty well rounded (IB graduate, merit scholarship)
Naturally good at and inclined towards entrepreneur-type stuff - he's had several successful small businesses in high school
Has some leadership and teaching skills and ability
Loved his junior high tech class (took it and then was a teaching assistant)
Loves engineering competitions (like mousetrap cars, building bridges out of popsicle sticks) - he and his team won the freshman engineering contest at his school
Loved his CAD class and SolidWorks
Loves failure analysis stuff like the engineering disaster shows
Likes mechanical stuff like cars and watches and assembling computers
Happens to be tall, good-looking, charming, and personable
Wants to be "successful", which I think to him means having a respected career, an interesting job he likes, and being able to buy the stuff he wants (nice car, nice clothes, nice things in general).
ADHD but hates the meds so far
Does not like the "details" of the central part of mechanical engineering classes like thermo and physics
Did not think that going to Rolex watch school would be a good career type move - sees that more as a hobby

I see him not as a pure engineering engineer, but as a person who can be engineering adjacent (engineering sales / customer stuff / business?). I've tried to impart to him in the phone call that he can be very successful in that type of career.

Sometimes he also seems like someone who might be suitable for a technical trade of some kind (watch repair, for example), but I think that career track probably doesn't satisfy his "respected career" criteria. (For the purposes of this thread, please set aside whether the trades are, are not or should be respected. I think they should be but reluctantly accept that generally they are not, but that's largely beside the point.)

As far as (b) goes, I've suggested:

1. Reading through his school's course catalog and seeing if any other degree program seems appealing.
2. Talking with any of his engineering faculty that he likes and trusts. He liked this suggestion and is executing on it today.
3. Taking classes in different areas that appeal (expensive and slow, but might work). He likes this idea.
4. Talking with the career counseling folks at his university. He might do this.
5. Getting jobs and working in areas he thinks he might like (like a CAD technician) and then working towards adjacent areas until he (a) hits a brick wall and needs some credentials, (b) is told he needs credentials, or (c) everyone who does what he wants has a certain kind of credential. Then getting that credential if he wants.
6. Talking with his uncle who has a degree in product design (which is, I understand it, mechanical engineering adjacent).
7. I didn't today, but I think I've mentioned job shadowing and informational interviews.
8. I pointed out the BLS Occupational Outlook Handbook as a resource.

Thanks for any suggestions or advice on either (a) specific careers / jobs / whatever that might be suitable, or (b) good methods to identify and evaluate career choices.
Click to expand...



I became a EE myself. I can tell you from my experience, it is normal to suffer. There is no way to get around that. It is an extremely challenging major to study. Around 50% do not make it, and I am not ashamed to say it almost broke me. Took every bit of tenacity I had.
I can still remember trying to explain to my father when he was alive, that the high grade on a test was 30%. Had never heard of “weed out” classes, but in engineering, it’s a thing!
To become an engineer, you really need a burning passion to do it. Otherwise you will just not make it.

On the other hand, there are rewards. You will ultimately make deep into 6 figures. Depending on the industry there will alway be demand. And you get to work on very cool things. I have seen and done things in my career that I never could have imagined in school. And just one more thing to keep in mind. Engineering is not something you do, it is something you become. It is a very methodical way of seeing the world, and helps out greatly with things like finances…. Just another equation to solve…
 
Sorry if I missed it, but does the kid know anybody currently working in the field? I highly recommend mentor's, job shadowing, internships, etc. to get real world exposure. Be a shame to let academics alone drive the decision. Hopefully the college/university can help with this.

This is one of my few regrets retiring early. I was in a Fortune 200 mfg/sales company. Had all the contacts to help with this type of mentoring and exposure for high school and college students. By the time my kids are ready, these contacts will be aged 10 years and maybe expired.
 
armor99 said:
On the other hand, there are rewards. You will ultimately make deep into 6 figures.
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That sounds a bit optimistic. Sure, some engineers will own engineering firms or make it into upper management at MegaCorps, but most won't. You generally won't make it into "deep 6 figures" (say $500k or more) as an individual contributor working for someone else as an engineer.

I'm not saying successful engineers in most fields won't make an excellent salary. Just sayin' that "deep into 6 figures" is probably only achieved by engineer-entrepreneurs or engineers in upper management.
 
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youbet said:
That sounds a bit optimistic. Sure, some engineers will own engineering firms or make it into upper management at MegaCorps, but most won't. You generally won't make it into "deep 6 figures" (say $500k or more) as an individual contributor working for someone else as an engineer.

I'm not saying successful engineers in most fields won't make an excellent salary. Just sayin' that "deep into 6 figures" is probably only achieved by engineer-entrepreneurs or engineers in upper management.
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Exactly right. As an engineer you will not go hungry and can have a nice middle to upper middle class life. Live in a decent house in a nice neighborhood, drive reasonable good cars, have some money for vacations or other fun stuff. But you will never get rich as an engineer working for a company. To get the big money you need to either start a side job and work that into a company you start; or get into upper mgmt at a big company.
 
Another BSEE here .. my spouse as well. I’m in upper mgmt and very very deep into 6figures, spouse is around 400k.

As everyone says engineering school is hard. I was not a traditional engineer by any means, and did not do so great in high school, did not even start college for a few years. Spouse was valedictorian of a nice private high school and knew they’d be an engineer since middle school.

That being said, we also have never done calculus or linear equations at work.
It’s a great career for only 4 years of college, but you have to accept it’s the hardest thing you’ll ever do .. and then give it 200% and be ok with a 30% on a test. Then the actual job, it’s easy comparatively.

I cannot give a lot of great advice, my son dropped out of engineering school, now working to be a plumber and makes about 65k/year, but can find his way in a few years to low to mid 100k’s … he’ll be able to support himself.

You son sounds like surely he can get through it, if he wants to. But there is no getting through it if he cannot, for himself, determine his “why” and what is he willing to give up in the short term. We humans always struggle with delayed gratification. Sounds like a super smart kid, and once he decides what he is going to go after, he’ll do great. Engineering is hard to do if you don’t believe in your gut that you want the degree.

My why - I’d made a go of it on my own and did not have enough $ for food, I had to get a job that would support me that I didn’t hate.
 
Yeah, I've never used calculus, differential equations, Laplace transforms or Fourier analysis either. Just in school.

Good old algebra worked fine on the job.

But as they say, studying calculus makes you really good at algebra - :)
 
RobbieB said:
Yeah, I've never used calculus, differential equations, Laplace transforms or Fourier analysis either. Just in school.

Good old algebra worked fine on the job.

But as they say, studying calculus makes you really good at algebra - :)
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I used to joke the hardest math I had to do was adding up my expense account for work travel. The reality is that understanding high level math is what is needed. Not actually doing it for work as an engineer.
 
Not an engineer here, but I did go to an engineer school and took the engineering version of most of the early classes I needed for my degree. I liked the challenge but struggled a LOT with those classes. I suspect if it’s anything like my school, those first two years are filled with the ‘weed out’ classes and it gets easier the last two.

It’s completely reasonable to switch majors if his heart isn’t in it, but what I’m hearing has more to do with the coursework and not the career. I would encourage him to find an internship or part time job to actually see the day to day. It may be that there’s another type of engineering that would be more appropriate, but my guess is the coursework on all will be similarly challenging.
 
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