Having children.

[Leonardo]

Hello everyone.

I'm 22, have a wonderful girlfriend and no children.

When my girlfriend was 18, she said she wanted to have 4 children, that she would love to be a mom, etc.

When she was 20, she said that 2 was ok.

When she was 22, she said that 1 was everything she wanted.

Now that she is 24, we're already discussing about not having a baby, even more now that she was converted convinced to the LBYM and "time is gold" principles.

I already know about the financial consequences of having a child, and I'm sure that with one I'll be delaying my ER for some years. I do not have a doubt about that.

My worries are about the emotional side of things. I heard about a lot of couples that break up after a child, that their time are completely absorbed by the child, that they lose part of the freedom to travel, etc. However, I'm also constantly hearing by some parents that their children were the best thing that ever happened to them.

I mean, I love babies and etc, but just can't imagine having to be taking care of him all the time, and when he/she gets older to become a freaking teenager and then get it's own life as a young adult. I'm not sure if I want that.

So, this come to an awkward question: are they worth it? I'm really unsecure about this and I don't want to put a kid in the world and regret it for the rest of my life.

I'm already feeling that the answer will depend about me more than anything...

 

[J-Lu]

Hi Leonardo,

You and your girlfriend are still very young. You have the time to wait a few years and see what life brings your way. You may decide a few years down the road that you want children, or the decision not to have children might become more clear. It sounds like at this point you are both having doubts, and therefore you should wait. Children will set you back financially, no doubt about it. But you need to decide what is most important to you. Personally, they have been one of the greatest joys of my life. If that sets me back a few years for FIRE, then so be it.

 

[Brat]

There is no investment that guarintees a great return.. including having children.  But, if you invest in your child (time and education) there is nothing that is more likely to return a life of joy.  Who else will care about your welfare when you are frail??  There are no grandchildren without a child, and no relationship richer.

 

[Maximillion]

I had a girl friend like that, at 30 I felt the need for family, she didn't.

We both married someone else, I had two kids, she had none.

30 years later, she's a lonely Widow, I have my family and all the warts that went into raising them.

My Buddy is 52, he has just had his first child.(he quit being an International businessman, prefers to stay home with his son, his wife works, the are Financially very O.K.)

The time may come when your feelings change, logic goes out the window, you may still be with the same lady 10 years from now or some one else, but in the meantime, quit worrying and concentrate on life.

 

[donheff]

I'm 22,
When my girlfriend was 18, she wanted 4 children
When she was 20, she said that 2 was ok.
When she was 22, she said that 1 was everything she wanted.

When she is 36 she will be dragging you to the fertility clinic.

My worries are about the emotional side of things.

I mean, I love babies and etc, but just can't imagine having to be taking care of him all the time

So, this come to an awkward question: are they worth it? I'm really unsecure about this and I don't want to put a kid in the world and regret it for the rest of my life.

That is a great state of mind to be in at 22. Similar worries about marraige make sense at your age. Work on FI for now and come back to this question in five or ten years when your head will be in a whole different place. BUT, don't get married without resolving the issue.

 

[Sarah in SC]

I agree 22 is young to know for sure, but I do know that most of my friends who ever mentioned wanting any kids, wound up having at least one down the road. Only the ones that said no way, never, have held out against the call of nature (myself included). You might have her read a book that I learned about from Gia's post on this issue, called Beyond Motherhood, that helps clarify a lot of the issues women have.
If you really want kids, the financial aspects are immaterial. If you really don't want kids, the financial aspects help "prove you right". Sort of like the old analogy about using statistics like a drunk man uses lightposts, for support rather than illumination.
Sarah

 

[Lusitan]

Ola Leonardo,

I'm 31 and my wife is 29 and we're expecting our first child soon. So that's where my perspective is coming from ...

I think the ultimate answer to your question of whether children are "worth it" is yes.

Raising children and teaching the next generation is worth the effort. That doesn't mean everyone will want to have kids - some will opt not to, others are unable to have children. But for those who put in the effort, it is worth it - to say otherwise would be to say that the time and effort is "not worth it", and few people who have children would say that.

But that said, both you and your girlfriend are very young. Having kids is something you should do only when you're ready, and if either of you have doubts, now is not the time to have a child. You need time to explore your careers (and perhaps get sick and tired and jaded about the "wonderful world of work"). You've got at least a 3 or 4 years before you need to think about kids.

You should get married before you have kids. And I think that there's a benefit to having a few years of marriage together before kids come along, to give you guys time to settle down, so that would be another reason to wait a few years before having kids at this point.

To what degree having kids will set back your plans for FIRE I can't say. I'll be finding that out soon enough myself. But by looking at how our parents raised us, and not how our peers are raising their kids, my wife (who is Portuguese, by the way) and I are pretty confident we can continue with our LBYM lifestyle and have kids. We just need to avoid getting sucked into the false "needs" of our materialistic culture.

Sometimes when I'm at family gatherings, I look around and see the smile on the faces of the elders and realize that, if I'm lucky enough to live that long, that will be me one day. My parents, uncles, aunts, and all of the older generation that I know know will have died. I'll be old, and at that point my family will be my children and grandchildren. And I'll sit back enjoying the feasts and smoking my pipe and playing the accordian. That's the way I want to go out!

Boa sorte!

 

[Canadian FIRE]

I'm 22, have a wonderful girlfriend and no children.

Now that she is 24, we're already discussing about not having a baby, even more now that she was converted convinced to the LBYM and "time is gold" principles.

Ok, here is my take on kids. They do take up time and money, but the payback in joy is HUGE. I love playing with my 15 month old boy. I spend money on him, but I don't rent as many movies and he really only eats a little bit. So overall he is only costing me about $150/month. So kids can be fairly cheap, it depends on how much you want to spend. Just like everything else.

By the way, I suggest having them when your young. Like NOW. Why? You will have them out of the house sooner. You are 22 + 22(years of care and helping in school) =44 years old and the first child should be out of your house. That will leave you TONS of time to enjoy retirement.

Just my thoughts,
CF

 

[Nords]

By the way,  I suggest having them when your young.  Like NOW.  Why?  You will have them out of the house sooner.  You are 22 + 22(years of care and helping in school) =44 years old and the first child should be out of your house.  That will leave you TONS of time to enjoy retirement.

Speaking from the perspective of starting parenthood at age 32, at that age you should attempt to raise a kid or a job-- but not both at the same time.

There's nothing wrong with holding off parenthood a few years to build your nest egg and your financial stability. I think marriage & childbearing ages have steadily risen over the last 50 years, and I can't imagine having to find a mortgage and buy diapers with the same paycheck.

 

[trharris]

I'm 22, have a wonderful girlfriend and no children.

When my girlfriend was 18, she said she wanted to have 4 children, that she would love to be a mom, etc.

When she was 20, she said that 2 was ok.

When she was 22, she said that 1 was everything she wanted.

Now that she is 24, we're already discussing about not having a baby, even more now that she was converted convinced to the LBYM and "time is gold" principles.

So what has YOUR position been over the past 6 years? Have you and gf been together since she was 18? Have you been saying no, you don't want any and she keeps coming down in the number that she wants? I guess what I'm asking is - is she changing HER mind because you have not changed your mind? Or are there other factors that come into play in her decision?

As an "older" mom to two sweet little guys, I would say that yes, they are definitely worth it. But, they will prolong our time until ER. They do change your life, for some that can be a good thing, for some it can be difficult to handle. IF I had it to do over again, I would definitely have started trying to get pregnant much sooner than my 30s.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

As for kids and money, I'd like to think that if you delay having them until you have your career in order, bought a decent-sized house, own a couple of cars, and have a solid nest egg, you're probably in the best shape to have them. Unfortunately, most people have a "want it all...NOW" attitude and end up incurring every expense under the sun all at the same time. No wonder many young families are strapped for cash.

 

[Brat]

I side with Jay, but there is no perfect time. Work long enough to be seasoned in your profession, max out your IRA/401k (and don't touch it until you are 60), be married 2-3 years minimum. Remember the time value of money? Those dollars invested early in retirement accounts, even when your earnings are low, will be worth more than any catch-up contribution when you are in your mid-30s. Save money for a starter home in a neighborhood with a great grade school. Resolve to pay all your bills at the end of the month, your only debt your mortgage.

Then start a family.

 

[laurence]

DW and I met when I was 22, she was 21. I was 30 when our daughter was born. We are very glad we waited and had some time for just the two of us. We absolutley love her and love this part of our life now.

I'm all about LBYM, but that should be applied to fast cars and diamond rings, not children. Silas Marner was the ultimate LBYM, and until the plot twist, he was the biggest loser ever IMHO.

When you ask yourself "What are you saving it for?", if your answer sounds like a speech by Che Guevera ("free myself from the chains of the capitalist dogs!"), you might have a problem. That's something your running away from. What's your destination? I wouldn't suggest thinking that you'll figure it out once you get there.

So yes, will my daughter delay ER? You betcha. Do I think I'm happier for it? You betcha.

 

[Cut-Throat]

If you don't want kids, that's fine. - Don't let anyone guilt trip you about it. IF you want one someday you'll know it - it's never too late. If you never want one, that's OK too.

Biological or adopted -does not matter. People adopt their pets and love them as much as their children.

 

[Lazarus]

Are the doubts about having children or staying together? Most women want children.

 

[SLC Tortfeasor]

These are big issues for me and my GF too. 

Here are some links to sites that I've found interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childfree

http://www.childfree.net/

You may notice that there is a strong tone of defensiveness to those who espouse the "child free" lifestyle.  It's almost as if they've been harassed by friends and family about having no kids, and they've just lost all perspective and started ranting.  But it's also true that our culture is extremely pro-kid.  And you'll be hard-pressed to find a parent to admit that they regret having kids.  So these resources may be worthwhile.

 

[Cut-Throat]

It's almost as if they've been harassed by friends and family about having no kids, and they've just lost all perspective and started ranting.

Almost? - For Sure! - I've had a child, and I used to get - ONLY ONE? - What's wrong with you??

NOYFB!

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

These are big issues for me and my GF too. 

Here are some links to sites that I've found interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Childfree

http://www.childfree.net/

You may notice that there is a strong tone of defensiveness to those who espouse the "child free" lifestyle.  It's almost as if they've been harassed by friends and family about having no kids, and they've just lost all perspective and started ranting.  But it's also true that our culture is extremely pro-kid.  And you'll be hard-pressed to find a parent to admit that they regret having kids.  So these resources may be worthwhile.

Love the glossary of terms for the Wikipedia entry...many are so true.

 

[Maximillion]

Children are the only reason your ancestors existed.

 

[setab]

Children are the only reason your ancestors existed.

I like that. I'm not sure why, exactly, but I do.

setab

 

[youbet]

NOYFB!

Ahhhh.........  Total agreement!  Whether it's childless fans spewing warnings about the kiddies pushing out ER, being a hassle to raise or consuming resources that could have been used for a new BMW.......or large family fans espousing how great it is to have several..............  It's NOYFB!  Everyone do what's right for you.  Everyone else, NOYFB.

Nicely said C-T.

 

[Leonardo]

Guys, thanks for all the links and books suggestions. It helped me a lot.

I´ve been with my girlfriend since I was 16. Just to clarify, there has never been any problem about staying together.

Whenever we talked about children, I´ve always been very cautious because I know this is a sensitive topic, specially to women.

Thankfully she made her own mind about reducing the amount of children. I didn´t interfere in that and certainly wasn´t happy in having 4 children.

The great question here, as I said, is not a financial one. I know about the financial consequences of having a child and the mandatory delay of ER, but I also agree that the "joy" factor as someose said can more than compensate the amount of money in our nest egg.

As most of you said, I agree that 22 is still a very young age to have a child, specially when me and my girlfriend still have some stairs to climb in our career.

I am also already feeling the pressure of having a child from my parents and from society in general. But as I told them, when the baby comes to life it will be my responsibility, not theirs.

I guess that, for now, both me and my girlfriend aren´t ready to have a baby. We will focus in raising our paycheck, getting married, having a decent house and enjoy for some time just ourselves. Then I believe that time will teach us both some lessons about what we really want for us.

 

[tryan]

are they worth it?

Because you asked ... I say wait until they're the one thing you want more than anything else. Because you'll be giving alot of "it" up to have them .... but it's worth it.

 

[brewer12345]

I guess that, for now, both me and my girlfriend aren´t ready to have a baby. We will focus in raising our paycheck, getting married, having a decent house and enjoy for some time just ourselves. Then I believe that time will teach us both some lessons about what we really want for us.

Sounds like a wise decision.

 

[macdaddy]

Once when I was in love with a beautiful young girl from California, I had a strange dream.  I fell asleep in the middle of the afternoon and it swept into my head.  It was a few years later (in the dream) and this girl and I were married.  I was standing in the delivery room of a hospital, and she was giving birth to our child.  Somehow my brand-new daughter ended up in my hands, and as I held her, and looked at her, I realized she looked just like my girlfriend.  Same blond hair, same mischevious little mouth, same beautiful blue eyes.  And beyond just the physical qualities, I somehow sensed that this little girl had her optimistic spirit, her natural kindness, and her warm heart as well.  I realized that all the qualities I loved so much in my girlfriend, and presumably all the qualities she loved so much in me, we had taken and put into a new little person that the two of us had created.  As I realized this, I was almost overwhelmed by a very powerful feeling of love for my new daughter.

I never was one to have very vibrant dreams, but when I woke up, this dream remained crystal clear to me.  Before it, I was not sure if I wanted any children, and had wrestled with the question in my mind.  Afterwards, I knew that I did, and felt absolute resolution of the question, which was a very peaceful feeling.  Maybe a sign like this in your own life can help guide you towards a decision.