Need tips for training my spouse.

[nfs]

Great thread title.

If you ever watch daytime TV - Oprah, Dr. Feel - or listen to radio psychologists, you will hear this endless refrain, "But I thought he would change after I married him." Everyone groans when they hear that. The conversation might be about booze or drugs or appearance or cleaning or irresponsible behavior or how kids get treated or ... There is no exemption for money.

 

[shiny]

I've always hated the concept of "allowances" for adults, but maybe it she got a certain about of money every month that she didn't have to be accountable for then she would feel in control of that and not go above it.

The grocery thing is another matter, maybe when you said good cheese she thought you meant really good cheese (now we know that you LOVE that free cheese )

I've always been the more thrifty one in our marriage, but getting DH involved in the spreadsheets, etc. this past year while trying to establish what we actually spend (and therefore what we'll need in ER) has really made him more aware of the day to day expenditures and how they affect our lives.

 

[REWahoo]

... But try to make her clean the toilet no matter how other negotiations turn out.

--Greg

This has to be one of the funniest lines I've seen on this forum in a while. But that's just my opinion. DW wanted to know what the heck I was laughing so much about so I showed her the post. Her comment, "So the moral to the story is you better let your wife come out ahead in the negotiations if you don't want to clean the toilet."

My response, "Yes, dear."

REW

 

[sgeeeee]

"Train" is an ugly word when you are talking about other people. Even "teach" has a subordinate connotation.

But if you want people to change there are similarities to training a pet.

Reward works better than punishment. At first, behavior that barely approximates the desired behavior in the slightest should result in praise. Gradually raise the bar. Praise has to be sincere and not condescending. Listening to a lecture feels like punishment to most people.

Something needs to be offered to replace the unwanted behavior.

Consistency is critical.

Patience makes the best trainer.

I'm not even a very good pet trainer. I wouldn't even try to "train" my wife.

 

[Danny]

Don't even bother with a budget. Don't berate her. If you want to keep your marriage healthy, just accept her behavior as-is. If she picks up clues from your "good" behavior, that's great, but accepting the whole package is what marriage is about.

From Groucho...

The husband who wants a happy marriage should learn to keep his mouth shut and his checkbook open.

Here's to our wives and girlfriends...may they never meet

 

[Dreamer]

I am the frugal one in our marriage. We used to argue about money quite a bit and then decided to do the allowance bit. DH was very good about getting his allowance from the bank and then when the credit card bill came, he would still have alot of purchases. He spends alot of money on car parts. Some months there is $400-$600 on the credit card on these parts. Also, during the summer months, our gasoline bill probably rivals many people's grocery bills for the month. He crashed his corvette earlier this summer and told me the good news was that we would only have to pay $1000.00 (deductible). The good news from my standpoint was that he was not hurt, gasoline usage is down this summer and he is home much more. We now have 5 vehicles for 3 drivers. I need to start using Quicken or spreadsheets to keep track of the money that we are spending on insurance, personal property taxes, licenses and registrations for these 5 vehicles. He always states that he is going to work forever. I think that will change though and I worry about not putting enough away. He thinks that I puts way too much away. We definitely do not see eye to eye, so I understand and sympathize with you.

Dreamer

 

[Caroline]

I've got lots of thoughts here, but one quick question -- does your wife have an income or does she work at home? If so, what does she bring in relative to what you earn -- percentage-wise, that is?

Caroline

 

[bpp]

Azanon,

I used to be your wife. Pretty bad with money, never had any money
in the bank, carried credit card balances all the time, etc. I got myself out
of debt before getting married, but was still pretty sloppy with money until
my wife, who is naturally very frugal, managed to "train" me. Her trick:
she put me in charge of taking care of all of the family finances. This
really forced me to get into the subject of money management seriously
and take responsibility (since I knew it wasn't just me that would suffer).
Having a kid also helped kick in that financial familial self-preservation
instinct. Now I very much enjoy budgeting, finances, investment, etc.,
stuff which I always found annoying or scary before.

Don't know if this would work for you, but at least it should tell you
that what everybody says about not being able to "train" a spouse
is not necessarily true. Try to find a way to get her involved
somehow, to take responsibility for the decisions rather than just
reacting to external pressure.

Bpp

 

[azanon]

Thanks for all the responses guys. The wheels are definitely turning in my head and i'm going to consider implementing some of the approaches here. I do believe it is possible for either her or I to make some adjustments so that we're both on the same page, or as close to it as possible.

Caroline, i dont mind just givin you the numbers; I make right at 70k/year, and my wife makes 40K/year. My wife, though, probably has more room for salary growth since she just entered the workforce with a MSW and is very entrepreneur minded. I'm a GS-12 and thought my GS-13 boss is about to retire, i'm not sure i even want his job if they were to give it to me.

 

[saluki9]

Thanks for all the responses guys. The wheels are definitely turning in my head and i'm going to consider implementing some of the approaches here. I do believe it is possible for either her or I to make some adjustments so that we're both on the same page, or as close to it as possible.

Caroline, i dont mind just givin you the numbers; I make right at 70k/year, and my wife makes 40K/year. My wife, though, probably has more room for salary growth since she just entered the workforce with a MSW and is very entrepreneur minded. I'm a GS-12 and thought my GS-13 boss is about to retire, i'm not sure i even want his job if they were to give it to me.

Your wife works!!!!! What are you complaining about? I guess I'm so used to my wife not working that I just get a little jealous of other people sometimess

 

[brewer12345]

Your wife works!!!!! What are you complaining about?     I guess I'm so used to my wife not working that I just get a little jealous of other people sometimess   

My wife doesn't have a paid job either Saluki. She has a small side business that makes maybe 5k a year, but mostly she chases after our daughter.

 

[Caroline]

From Nords...

"Need tips for training my spouse." Good grief, man, you train dogs. If that's what you want then buy a puppy.

You are a gentleman as well as a scholar, Nords!

I don't know your wife, Azanon, but my reaction to reading your note was one of sympathy... I've been working with my partner on a life plan and financial goals so I know what hard work that can be.

At the same time, it occured to me that, since I make my own money, I would NOT want to be told what to do with it. It may be less of a money issue than it is a freedom and indepence issue.

I don't want to put down anything that looks like a feminist rant, but there are men in the world (none of whom ever visit this site, thank god), who have a tendency to try to tell us women what to do. Sometimes, we resist!

When I run into resistance from my mate I purge all "you" and "we" comments from the disucssion and go with "I" statements. Some examples:

"I love you very much and would never want to change you -- I just get SO tired of this workaday grind. I look forward to the day when you and I can be free to (fill in the blank -- travel, build a business together, spend more time with the grandkids, whatever.)"

"I want you to have the best of everything, sweetie, but I just get so afraid with the way the economy, the war, and the job-markets are going. I'd feel much more comfortable if we saved for (fill in the blank) and paid cash for it."

"I don't want you to feel monitored, but I need to feel comfortable. What if we "paid ourselves first" each month and had a set amount left over for each of us to spend any way we liked? Would that work for you?"

You get the picture. This sounds simple but it has proven VERY effective. My partner DOES want me to be happy - he just has trouble remembering that when he's busy defending himself against my efforts to "improve" him! "I" statements take the pressure off him and free him up to consider my request.

(Do be sure to start slowly -- if your wife hasn't heard this type of touchy-feely stuff from you in some time she may fall right over!)

Hope that helps - I want to get out of this job so bad I can taste it, and anything that gets in the way of that really stresses me out. Good luck, and hope my gentle ribbing was ok!

Caroline

 

[azanon]

Caroline,

I really don't trample too much on the freedom and independence of how she spends her money per se.   Even I like to buy myself a few toys everynow and then if our available monies permit.

Right now, we dont have an outright drawn-out budget per se.  What we're currently doing is that we agreed to only buy "needs" up until the end/beginning of a pay period.   At the beginning of a pay period, i try to pay ourselves upfront.  At the end of a pay period, whatever is left can potentially be fun money.

Where the damage seems to be done is during the middle.  Certainly, "food" is a need so she'll buy that, but one can still pay too much for food (like the 8 dollar/pound cheese).   Clothes certainly are a need (she needs to look nice for work, even i agree with that), but how many clothes is enough and where does one wife go from need to excess.   Everyone needs a haircut, but why does hers has to cost 50 dollars, and 20-25 extra for red-highlights that i cant even see (usually if i squint, i can see the red).    Everyone also "needs" to eat, but does one need to eat out chinese for lunch everyday?    Do you get what i'm saying here.      So by the end of a pay period, we're often left with nothing for fun money, which dissapoints her more than it does me, and this stresses me out cause the way i see it, she's the main reason we dont have any left.

But the way she'll see it, is the reason we dont have enough is probably cause i'm taking too much from the pot in the beginning (i.e. the retirement funds).

So my fear is, that to break the stalemate, i might end up laxing on the retirement contributions rather than her easing up on the discretional spending.   I cant spend any less, cause i already spend personally like a minimalist.  I am socking away close to 18% of gross earnings though in retirement accounts (not counting my eventual pension, + both our social securities).  My employer matches up to 5% for my 401(k). So 18% of gross (18% of 110K) + employer match in largely equity investments would get me to where i needed to go in terms of a decent ER.  But I know if i start dropping much below 15%, then i'm going to be moving into the realm of just a typical retirement (60+).

So.... anyway, this is something we'll be working on.

 

[justin]

You could make a list with your wife of all the "discretionary" spending that occurs - dining out, clothes, expensive haircuts, etc. Prioritize the list by what is most important to you/her, and what is least important. See if she'll agree to try to reduce spending on the stuff that isn't really that important to her. The point is to keep the extravagances that mean the most to you, while reducing those that mean very little.

For example, the $6/day chinese habit may mean a lot to your wife - she gets to socialize with friends (stress relief!) and doesn't have to worry about eating a bologna sandwich every day. She may find that the $200 suit/purse/shoes that she just bought in a different shade of grey may not bring much value to her life when she is forced to prioritize what is important to her.

In my purchasing decisions, I view everything as a cost/benefit analysis. Identify the true costs of ownership, determine what benefits the purchase would have, and then take action.

 

[laurence]

Although I am the long term retirement planner, I'm also the spender. She does the day to day finances and gives me an allowance. I'll admit, it's hard to sacrifice now for something that seems so far off. Constant tempation, despite the fact that by all measures we live a nice lifestyle.

 

[haha]

So.... anyway, this is something we'll be working on.

I don't remember if you have kids. If not, maybe best to take the hit now, and go on your way. There may be an oil shortage, but I haven't heard of an imminent woman shortage.

Or maybe just relax and go with the flow. As someone said earlier in this thread, usually trying to change people-- especially a wife or husband-- is a fool’s errand. It probably won't work. It annoys the object of your persuasions. And it wastes your finite energy and resources.

Ha

 

[wabmester]

It probably won't work. It annoys the object of your persuasions. And it wastes your finite energy and resources.

Listen to the Tao of Ha.

Trying to teach a pig to sing
Will not only be a waste of your time
But it will also annoy the pig

 

[bpp]

Listen to the Tao of Ha.

No, don't!

Here are a couple more "training" tips which my wife has used on me with effect.

1) She always clears with me any purchase over about $20, even for obviously
necessary stuff like haircuts and new shoes to replace worn-out ones (she's no
Imelda Marcos). I used to think she was being silly to ask permission to spend
on necessities, but eventually caught on and got into the habit of clearing with
her anything more expensive than daily pocket money amounts. You could try
starting to clear all purchases with your wife, and see if she gets the hint. (But
warning -- if she is as dense as I am, it could take a lot of patience for this
approach to work.) Maybe for starters, you can start with only relatively big-ticket
items, over $50-$100 or so, and gradually work your way down if/as needed.

2) When I bought groceries, she would check over the contents and point out
when there were some easy big savings to be had by buying one item
rather than another. This was more annoying for me to put up with, but
after a while I did get into the habit of always looking for whatever is cheapest
or on sale, and now get to enjoy having more money in my pocket after I leave
the cash register and less "re-education" when unpacking the bags at home.

Don't give up yet. Old dogs may be slow, but we can learn new tricks.

Bpp

 

[maddythebeagle]

It appears that the truth is somewhere in between. She probably doesnt view you as her "sugar daddy" with limitless purse strings (since there are probably more upscale places to eat than Subway) and you aren’t the megalomaniac that you appear who would just send her to the grocery store to get "the good cheese" knowing full well that this is a vague task and can only be assumed that you meant "the good cheese".

 

[Mr._johngalt]

No, don't!

Here are a couple more "training" tips which my wife has used on me with effect.

1) She always clears with me any purchase over about $20, even for obviously
necessary stuff like haircuts and new shoes to replace worn-out ones (she's no
Imelda Marcos).  I used to think she was being silly to ask permission to spend
on necessities, but eventually caught on and got into the habit of clearing with
her anything more expensive than daily pocket money amounts.  You could try
starting to clear all purchases with your wife, and see if she gets the hint.  (But
warning -- if she is as dense as I am, it could take a lot of patience for this
approach to work.)  Maybe for starters, you can start with only relatively big-ticket
items, over $50-$100 or so, and gradually work your way down if/as needed.

2) When I bought groceries, she would check over the contents and point out
when there were some easy big savings to be had by buying one item
rather than another.  This was more annoying for me to put up with, but
after a while I did get into the habit of always looking for whatever is cheapest
or on sale, and now get to enjoy having more money in my pocket after I leave
the cash register and less "re-education" when unpacking the bags at home.

Don't give up yet.  Old dogs may be slow, but we can learn new tricks.

Bpp

Whatever works. In our case, her money and my money.
Her responsibilities and mine. She pays her stuff
and I pay my stuff and neither offers the other any
advice whatsoever (I have a lot to offer. In our case
it's better just to keep my mouth shut, so I do).

JG

 

[MooreBonds]

I was somewhat surprised at azanon's situation, and it prompted me to raise a question:

How many of you actually sat down with your significant other BEFORE saying "I do" and went over budgets, financials, debts, assets, financial goals, retirement dreams, etc.?

I realize that I'm the consummate planner and often take things to the extreme, but surely most of the fiscal wizards of this forum had the foresight to discuss what a hypothetical budget, spending habits, debts, etc. would be like in the long-run?

I keep wanting to bring it up with women that I'm considering 'steady' relationships with, much less women that I'm engaged to, and I find it frightening enough at times when I discover what their financial habits and attitudes are like.

--Peter

 

[sgeeeee]

I was somewhat surprised at azanon's situation, and it prompted me to raise a question:

How many of you actually sat down with your significant other BEFORE saying "I do" and went over budgets, financials, debts, assets, financial goals, retirement dreams, etc.?

. . .

Not me. I met my DW while we were both working in a dishroom. Our wedding cost $25 and I had to hitchhike 180 miles to get a day job putting up hay in order to pay for it. For the honeymoon we hitchhicked across the country (Illinois to the West coast) and back. We started with less than $10, did odd jobs along the way, and came back with over $30. That was 1975. But we never discussed financial views at all.

 

[flipstress]

Trying to teach a pig to sing
Will not only be a waste of your time
But it will also annoy the pig

LOL!
Years and years ago, someone gave me a card with these lines, and I didn't get it.  It's funny now!

And wise, very wise.  Annoyed pigs could mean danger.

 

[azanon]

I was somewhat surprised at azanon's situation, and it prompted me to raise a question:

How many of you actually sat down with your significant other BEFORE saying "I do" and went over budgets, financials, debts, assets, financial goals, retirement dreams, etc.?

I realize that I'm the consummate planner and often take things to the extreme, but surely most of the fiscal wizards of this forum had the foresight to discuss what a hypothetical budget, spending habits, debts, etc. would be like in the long-run?

I got married when i was 20 as a college student and she had just turned 19 (also in college).   There was no unplanned pregnancy involved; she was just the hottest little thing on campus and she actually said yes when i asked her out.    Since i figured i was on a roll, i just (later) asked her to marry me too.

The only thing i was thinking about was how much sex i would get every night.

Any other questions?   

 

[justin]

It appears that the truth is somewhere in between. She probably doesnt view you as her "sugar daddy" with limitless purse strings (since there are probably more upscale places to eat than Subway) and you aren’t the megalomaniac that you appear who would just send her to the grocery store to get "the good cheese" knowing full well that this is a vague task and can only be assumed that you meant "the good cheese".

Some people think that a pricetag indicates the value or quality of something. Your wife probably thought you meant the good cheese (with the high price, because high price indicates high quality). It is necessary to disassociate the price of an item from the quality of an item. Then compare the price of an item TO the quality of an item to make an informed purchasing decision.