Single ERers

[nun]

I'm just wondering who's single and considering ERing. I'm single and even though my networth is probably below many folks on this board I'll be able to ER fairly soon as I don't have the expense of kids to put through school and I live a fairly simple LBYM life.

I have a number of friends in a similar situation and I was talking to them about this and it was interesting to see the range of opinions about whether we'd rather be in our 40s single and retired or married with kids and "looking forward" to 10 to 20 years of expenses and paying for college.....so any opinions??;-) Looks like we are the Seinfeld Generation

 

[kramer]

Hi nun,

I am 41 years old, single and strongly considering FIRE next year.

I think singles need to pay more care to maintaining a social network after ER. I have several things in mind including volunteering (tutoring, literacy and ESL), some specific social activities, and spending more time with family.

I am considering working seasonally in the US at some point, although short term I am considering teaching English overseas.

Not only am I single, but I have no real estate, and I will be moving immediately after ER, and also doing a lot of traveling early on. All of these changes together are a big shock to the system, and so I am trying to keep the cautions above in mind and plan for them. Basically, I will be parachuting in naked, with only an ATM card.

I already have a couple of trips planned to go see old friends. And I have found that I have been reconnecting with lots of folks with whom I had fallen out of touch.

One thing to keep in mind is that your budget may change if you ever get married. This is probably much more likely to happen than going broke (e.g., the issue is less running out of money, more about raising your expenses). Unless you marry someone with assets or a worker bee. So that could force you back to work.

Longer term, you need to think about a support network as you get older and may have trouble taking care of yourself. I have not given this as much thought, and it does worry me some.

I am figuring that I will be spending something like 36-40K per year for expenses while living in the states (this includes EVERYTHING). If I am teaching English overseas, I figure I will approximately break even.

Kramer

 

[nun]

One thing to keep in mind is that your budget may change if you ever get married. This is probably much more likely to happen than going broke (e.g., the issue is less running out of money, more about raising your expenses). Unless you marry someone with assets or a worker bee. So that could force you back to work.

Longer term, you need to think about a support network as you get older and may have trouble taking care of yourself. I have not given this as much thought, and it does worry me some.

I've been married and I don't plan on doing it again, right now I've been seeing someone for about a year, even so, I would never again get married because of all the financial implications. I have a large extended family so that will be a help as I get older, but I also have long term care insurance.

 

[dex]

Nun,
I"m 50+ and RE. Several of my friend who have children in there mid to late teen or in college can not wait until the children are out of the house. One or two said that if they had to do it over again they would not have children. I was surprised to hear that.

 

[Caroline]

{quote]One or two said that if they had to do it over again they would not have children. I was surprised to hear that.[/quote]

A friend of mine says of his children: "I wouldn't take a million dollars for the ones I've got, and I wouldn't give you a dime for another one."

I'm not single, nun, and I'll hit 50 before I retire, but I don't have any kids. (I didn't plan it that way... just never got 'round to it.) Based upon the absolute ZOO I encountered at the department store just now -- incredible numbers of very short human beings bleating for toys or screeching their lungs out because they've been told "no," -- I am not missing a thing. The idea of these self-same small humans, grown large and dinging me for college tuition at University of Spoiled Children or some such other high-cost, low-quality institution, is enough to make me swoon.

Since you can't miss what you never had, I'll be happy to remain childless and take the early out.

 

[eyeonFI]

I'm single, and if I stay kid-free I figure I could ER in about 5-6 years. Actually, if I really wanted to go bare-bones and live minimally, I could ER in 2 years. After a frustrating day or week at w*rk, it's a really tempting thought. But, I am hoping to have a kid, and my best projections with kid expenses worked in is to ER in about 10-11 years.

 

[Goonie]

I'm 49, single (by choice!!!), have no SO, and no rug-rats. I've got my investments, house is free and clear, and VERY minimal CC debt, a new car w/ a very small loan on it, and I'll get a DB pension w/ cola (YEA!!!). I'll be paroled FIRE'd the first week of April '07.

I've got my hobbies and activities that I relish. I have a friend & family 'network'. I have some of my travel plans set for the next couple of years. I'll keep my current health ins after FIRE.

As for what will happen down the road when I get old & decrepid, and possibly need someone to take care of me.....I may take a very final ocean cruise...."Excuse me Captain. Did you say these are shark infested waters??".....then when no one's looking, over the rail I go...SPLOOSH! Feedin' the fishies!!! (the cheapest, easest cure for terminal illness....and NO funeral costs!!!)

 

[theronware]

I'm not single, nun, and I'll hit 50 before I retire, but I don't have any kids. (I didn't plan it that way... just never got 'round to it.) Based upon the absolute ZOO I encountered at the department store just now -- incredible numbers of very short human beings bleating for toys or screeching their lungs out because they've been told "no," -- I am not missing a thing. The idea of these self-same small humans, grown large and dinging me for college tuition at University of Spoiled Children or some such other high-cost, low-quality institution, is enough to make me swoon.

I'm fired at 42, and have a partner and a four year old. Yesterday, I wondered aloud to my partner how such complete love and complete impatience could exist side by side when confronted with one human being. I HATE not having the endless hours to myself that I used to, but love seeing my daughter's joy in life. And, it's a privilege to be able to participate in that joy with her. This year, she dragged us to the Nutcracker against both our wills. I never thought I would like ballet (i.e. "what the hell are doing at this bourgeois heter-normative fantasy?") but we were as rapt as she. And I haven't looked forward to xmas so much for years -- consumerist or not, there are some wonderful upsides.

As for affording it while FIRED, we are currently torn between public schools in our area and private. I think this is the main extra big expense we will have with her. We have great public universities in our state and I see no reason why she can't attend one of those It looks like we'll have a little less to spend on extras for ourselves if she goes to private elementary and high school, but that's ok.

As for "short human beings bleating their lungs out" b/c they don't get what they want....doesn't that just describe over-indulged middle Americans of any age? My partner owns an RV resort and I help her with it in the summer season. Believe me, the outrage and bleating you hear from a 40 year old white middle class male whose site has been given by accident to someone else is much more grotesque than anything you'll ever hear from a child.

theronware

 

[nun]

I thought I'd get a few more chidren friendly replies to my post. The kernal of my conversation with friends about this is that until you have children you carn't really
comment. Friends with children are obviously totally in love with them, to the point
of idiocy, but I suppose that's what its all about.

Anyway I have no kids and and I don't want any if the screaming throng in the
local bagel shop is anything to go by.....My attitude and situation actually worries
me, the numbers of single people, no kids, seems to be growing and I think families
with 2 parents (of either gender) with kids is a better unit for our society rather than
rather selfish single ERing folks like me.

 

[Khan]

Briefly married, long divorced, never wanted or had offspring.

Retired on the cheap at 54.

 

[Spanky]

I am not but my friend is. He retired from the government with GS-15 COLA pension at age 50. He is single and has no children. He enjoys his freedom and lives cheaply (even with a $80K per year pension) - no dining out, no travel, no fancy car, LCD TV .... He does workouts and goes to see a movie once in a while.

 

[rs0460a]

selfish single ERing folks like me.

At least you have identified the "situation" (from my point of view). I won't give you a counter-argument on the "good side" of having kids (I can't - we only have one, who is disabled, so we never saw the "cute side" of having kids).

However, I've learned a lot from him and would have not given up the chance to be his parent for "all the tea in China".

Again, different strokes - different folks. Sometimes it's hard to have kids, if you have some of the traits of a child. It's a bit like having a relationship, leading to marriage. It's easy to "play house". To stand in front of your family, friends, and your "God" (whatever it may be) and make a commitment to another takes the relationship to a new level. Having kids is the same way. If you are not ready to make the commitment, for the sake of your unborn children, don't...

- Ron

 

[LOL!]

We have kids (10 and 15), are FI, and are on the cusp of 50. I have never seen our children as expensive, nor as big time sinks. Sure when they are younger, they need more of your time and maybe your chilidren's playmates scream in the bagel shop sometimes. But at some point around age 8, 7 or earlier, they are able to function quite civilly and contribute meaningfully to the family by washing dishes, cleaning the house, doing laundry, and mowing the yard. They also have their own friends, go to their own jobs (school) and generally don't bother you most of the time.

The myths that kids are always 2 or 3 years old, cost a lot of money are are generally obnoxious time sinks are just that: myths.

 

[dex]

As for what will happen down the road when I get old & decrepid, and possibly need someone to take care of me.....I may take a very final ocean cruise...."Excuse me Captain. Did you say these are shark infested waters??".....then when no one's looking, over the rail I go...SPLOOSH! Feedin' the fishies!!! (the cheapest, easest cure for terminal illness....and NO funeral costs!!!)

Make sure you take out as many loans as possible, max out your credit cards and borrow money from people you don't like before the cruse.

 

[jeff2006]

The myths that kids are always 2 or 3 years old, cost a lot of money are are generally obnoxious time sinks are just that: myths.

In my experience, LOL is right on. Our kids (now 20 and 18) are a pleasure to be around, and have been so most of their lives -- they must take after their mother rather than their father, I guess Not preaching to anyone; just reporting my own experience.

 

[Nords]

The myths that kids are always 2 or 3 years old, cost a lot of money are are generally obnoxious time sinks are just that: myths.

Nah, it's just a side effect of the chronic sleep deprivation...

 

[haha]

There are lot's of young families in the building where I am living. I am reminded of what a high energy job parenting is. You take off running and keep it up for 25 to 30 years, depending on the number and spacing of your kids.

You love it, but is is tiring. And you miss it when it is finished; at least I do. Kids are the only natural truth-tellers left, it is hard to be without them helping adjust one's attitudes.

Ha

 

[Texas Proud]

Kids are the only natural truth-tellers left, ....
Ha

Hmmmmm.... not any of the kids I have seen in my life.... they lie all the time to get what they want or to keep out of trouble... and if they don't get what they want.. .they can scream like you are killing them...

They seem to only tell the truth when it is not convenient... "Mommy, what is that woman so fat?" at the top of their lungs...

 

[haha]

I was speaking on a more existential level. True that kids like anyone else will say what they need to say to survive.

But isn't this a pro-evolutionary trait?

Ha

 

[Goonie]

Make sure you take out as many loans as possible, max out your credit cards and borrow money from people you don't like before the cruse.

Our old neighbor down the block (who has been loooong gone now) found out he only had a short time to live, and went to the company credit union and took out a loan for ALL new appliances (washer, dryer, stove, refrigerator, water heater, furnace, etc), and then went and bought a nice new automobile....with a loan from the same credit union. All the loans through that credit union included automatic payoff in the event of your untimely demise. His widow enjoyed many years of living in their paid-off house, with all the new appliances....as well as tooling around town in the new car....and he had left her a sizable amount of money in investments and life ins policies....and left her not owing ANY debt!!!

 

[Dawg52]

Our old neighbor down the block (who has been loooong gone now) found out he only had a short time to live, and went to the company credit union and took out a loan for ALL new appliances (washer, dryer, stove, refrigerator, water heater, furnace, etc), and then went and bought a nice new automobile....with a loan from the same credit union. All the loans through that credit union included automatic payoff in the event of your untimely demise. His widow enjoyed many years of living in their paid-off house, with all the new appliances....as well as tooling around town in the new car....and he had left her a sizable amount of money in investments and life ins policies....and left her not owing ANY debt!!!

I wonder how the uhh......big man looked on this at the pearly gates?

 

[Trek]

I ER'd about 6 months ago at 35. Currently single but have a wonderful girlfriend I intend to marry and have children with. However where I chose to retire (overseas) the government gives you a monthly allowance per child to cover basic expenses and schools are free up to university level where they are either free or very inexpensive (ie. 3K) depending. Healthcare of course is free as well. My wife will get 15 months maternity leave at 100% her current salary, etc. It's a very family friendly country.

Since I have no debt of any kind assuming my future wife wants to keep working then that is just bonus money. Of course if we have more than one kid (we intend to) I'll have to get a bigger apartment but I live downtown which is pricey so I can move a little farther out of town and get a much bigger place for the same amount of money, hence keeping me mortgage free.

You CAN have it all! Best of luck to you!

 

[nun]

However where I chose to retire (overseas) the government gives you a monthly allowance per child to cover basic expenses and schools are free up to university level where they are either free or very inexpensive (ie. 3K) depending. Healthcare of course is free as well. My wife will get 15 months maternity leave at 100% her current salary, etc. It's a very family friendly country.

What's the country? sounds like it might be European. I agree that its nice to have good
social benefits, but they don't come free, they will be covered by some form of taxation.
I know that if I was going to have kids I'd move back to the UK where families get a lot more assistance from the government and you don't have to spend a fortune to get a good education.

 

[Trek]

What's the country? sounds like it might be European. I agree that its nice to have good
social benefits, but they don't come free, they will be covered by some form of taxation.
I know that if I was going to have kids I'd move back to the UK where families get a lot more assistance from the government and you don't have to spend a fortune to get a good education.

Estonia. Yes, it is of course paid via taxes. The tax rate is a flat 23%.

 

[Goonie]

I wonder how the uhh......big man looked on this at the pearly gates?

Well, he WAS looking out for widows & the fatherless!