Trying to figure me out

[Pavo]

Hey guys,
Long time no post on here. Hope everyone is well.

I've been staying the course of working hard , being frugal, investing, etc., and I think that I am in a very good place at 27. I found my groove a couple years ago and it's been on autopilot since then.

I do have an issue though, and that's in dealing with others my age, specifically my colleagues at work. I'm in a well paying line of work in a major city, and have been since out of college. Our annual raises are very generous as well. So while most of my colleagues get there raise and move into a fancier apartment, buy a new car, designer clothes, steak dinners, etc., I simply invest more, but I don't talk about it, and clearly, don't have new things to show for.

So, I'm the black sheep here. I don't really fit in with many in my age group. My peers have been trying to figure me out for quite some time, but I didn't think that it would be prudent to say that I save everything, have at least 100x more than you do, and plan on jumping ship early. So I've resorted to giving them the vague version of it, that I'm saving for a down payment (which I am), and I discuss many other interests that I pursue in my free time, which does shock some of them. Some are true, some are fabricated (to get them off my back).

Everyone I work with has money as we have a good income, but the thing is, many of them hang out together and spend all of it. I don't really hang out with them (few times), as they always go out to eat at fancy restaurants, bars (dropping $100-200 in one night is not unusual), etc. I can't justify going out with them when they blow everything, plus, when I leave work, my free time is my free time, no? Nobody hassles the older folks about this, but being young and single, it's like 'um, what do you do in your free time if you're not with us?'

It's frustrating to deal with. I like what I do for work. I like the income and I save it. But I don't like the culture of most. I am good friends with a few who are more practical, and at least one colleague who is a young dreamer and looking to FIRE. It's very common to be in your 20s and blow it all, but here I am at 27 with well over 100k and I'm planning out where to be at 30 then 35, etc. With that said, most think that I am an old man because of my planning and discipline.

Have others here experienced this? Can anyone offer some advice on how to deal with it? It's not the largest issue in the world, but it's frustrating because I am not honest with them, and it's like they cannot see my way of thinking, sans the other young dreamer that I work with. They think that I am weird (which is fine), but I don't want to tell them that they're dumb, I don't want to spend money like crazy, most I don't want to hang out with outside of work (I can't say this to be mean), and I plan on living a life how I want to live in 1-2 decades, without work.

 

[Midpack]

You have it figured out already, they don't. You're in a minority, especially at your age, but you're not alone. Seek out others like yourself, and avoid the mainstream folks your age for the most part. More than ever, they are a throwback to unsustainable behavior that has helped usher in the economic mess we're in right now (but it won't last forever)...

· That man is the richest whose pleasures are the cheapest. Henry David Thoreau

· The most important things in life aren’t things. Anthony J. D’Angelo (Sadly some people never learn this, and their lives can be an endless search without satisfaction/happiness)

· The richer your friends, the more they will cost you. Elizabeth Marbury (I make a conscious effort to limit socializing with folks who enjoy spending more than I do)

· There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Marley

 

[dex]

Don't be expense wise and income foolish.

How you are perceived by those below, same level and above you can influence your future prospects and as a result your income.
So if your spending behavior puts you in a negative light you could be missing out on future income through promotions that outweighs your potential expense savings.
Sometimes you need to spend money on clothes or outings with co workers to be perceived as a team player, promotable, good image etc.

Sometimes you have to spend money to make money.

Do you know how others perceive you, besides being weird - strengths, weaknesses, image, potential, need to learn?

If your being "weird" is the general opinion of you it could hurt your future earnings, delaying when you reach your goal.

 

[bbbamI]

Have others here experienced this?

Yes.

Can anyone offer some advice on how to deal with it? It's not the largest issue in the world, but it's frustrating because I am not honest with them, and it's like they cannot see my way of thinking, sans the other young dreamer that I work with. They think that I am weird (which is fine), but I don't want to tell them that they're dumb, I don't want to spend money like crazy, most I don't want to hang out with outside of work (I can't say this to be mean), and I plan on living a life how I want to live in 1-2 decades, without work.

Perhaps you should start being honest with them. Not everyone will see you're way of thinking no matter your age. The ones that "dis" you will fade with time; the ones that admire you may become friends for life.

You can tell them life is about choices; they have their way of living and dealing with finances and you have your own. Add a big toothy grin.....

 

[haha]

Can anyone offer some advice on how to deal with it? It's not the largest issue in the world, but it's frustrating because I am not honest with them, and it's like they cannot see my way of thinking, sans the other young dreamer that I work with. They think that I am weird (which is fine), but I don't want to tell them that they're dumb, I don't want to spend money like crazy, most I don't want to hang out with outside of work (I can't say this to be mean), and I plan on living a life how I want to live in 1-2 decades, without work.

You are not likely to change, and they are not likely to change. You'll never win a popularity poll. Your way may be better or worse than theirs in various ways. It may truncate your career or it may not. In any case, of all the young guys and gals hanging out at Happy Hour after work, how many will hit the real jackpots?

You will at least have what you save.

However, I couldn't live the way you describe yourself living. I wouldn't like it or even tolerate it, unless it was forced on me by financial necessity.

Last night I went to Happy Hour in a real lively suburban bar and it was really fun. I wish I were 25 again, to have many, many more years of TGIF to look forward to. My date was not a young thing, (more's the pity) but she loved it too. A lively after work bar is like Disney Land for adults; it's about pleasure and escape.

If I were doing my life again, I would spend way more time finding a job and job situation that didn't make me want to bail; and way less planning my retirement.

But everyone is surely different.

Ha

 

[Pavo]

Midpack - Thanks, and I do agree with you in many ways. Most of my peers live paycheck to paycheck. They are fine with that. I did do that at one point, and realized how I had nothing. Changed my ways, learned from my parents who are very frugal, learned from others, found this site, etc. The rest is now history.

Dex - Thanks. My work attire is elegant. Khakis at worst, but usually I wear $200 Italian slacks, Brooks Brothers shirts, etc. I made sure to spend a good amount on work attire as I learned this the hard way very early on in my career. I'm always in the office early, usually number 1 or 2 guy in. Sometimes I stay late. Always asking for additional projects. I report to a director who did tell me last summer that I am on track to being a director at my firm, providing I finish certain credentials.

Most people I work with are from a small town, then went to college in a college town, first time in the big city so they think they made it, so to say, in their 20s and live the high life. I was private schooled in the city, then went on to a private uni. in the city, so by the time I was 24, I've already been to almost all the bars and clubs in the city and got it out of my system. Most people that I work with are just starting to experience it all. I spent 10s of thousands on booze prior to 25 - all of my money went on partying. Then, my priorities changed.

bbbam1 - I've found a select few colleagues who are smart in this area, and we do talk quite a bit about our finances, etc.

Haha - Thanks. Interesting. LOL. I got into a great financial firm when times were great, so my plan was to be smart about it. I bought into some property shortly after being hired, which ended up being a smart decision, but it forced me to save more than I would have wanted. I agreed to this commitment given the appreciation and income that would come from it in time. My insane savings plan is temporary as well. I already own 2 rental properties, and I am saving up for my next one. I'm looking to jump out of finance within the next few years anyway. My plan was (is) to work my tail off from 24/25 - 30 (24/25 is when my priorities changes with money).

I have a life outside of work. Last weekend I was at a club until 6 AM and dropped $150 on booze then hooked up with and danced the rest of the night with a Russian cutie. I do live a little (believe it or not) and I do have fun. I'm much more, responsible, with my finances now. Before 24/25, I partied like a madman, including when I was first hired - loads of income coming my way means I get to purchase loads of junk and booze. A number of hook ups and quite a few one night stands as well.

It's just now, entering my later 20s, my mentality has shifted. No offense to anyone, but the banking & corporate life sucks. I don't care about the miles or hotel points, the free lunches & dinners, etc. I want to travel the world. Stay with family in Europe for an extended period of time. Swim in remote areas. I want to sleep in. Name it. But the jobs I really want, are self-fulfilling hobbies more or less, and they don't pay well. I went into finance to make money (and I'm good at what I do). But the baller lifestyle isn't my cup of tea. It's not me.

 

[deserat]

Shakespeare said, "To thine ownself be true." I wouldn't be overly concerned unless you really care what these people think. And truly, you'll be amazed at where you are in 5 years and will be looking back wondering why you did care what they thought. At 45, I'm amazed at how much I don't know about where I'll be - just the broad outlines of what is important to me (RE and FI, travel and being true to who I am, being there for my family and true friends, having a life full of experiences to become a wise old woman).

Bottom line from me: keep on keeping on and don't worry about what they think. If you are doing your job and putting your time and money where you value them to be, consider yourself one hell of a lucky young man to have found that out early in life. Re-read Your Money or Your Life.....

 

[Amethyst]

Heck, the solution seems simple, given all you've told us about your likes and dislikes. Keep making and socking away the dough, so that sooner rather than later, you can quit doing what you don't like and start doing, full-time, what you do like! That's pretty much everyone's goal on this forum. Most of us have had to wait longer than you will, that's the only difference.

And don't kid yourself...when you're older, you'll still get hit with peer pressure about how you spend your time and your $$. (I certainly do). Fact, there's bound to be peer pressure all the way through the nursing home and up to (but not, one hopes, including) the grave. How much p-p bothers you, and how much you bend to it, is a cost-benefit calculation that only you can make.

 

[Pavo]

Thanks guys.

And don't kid yourself...when you're older, you'll still get hit with peer pressure about how you spend your time and your $$. (I certainly do).

This really seems to be the gist of it. My buddy & I were driving to the gym today and I mentioned this to him. He says 'Remember how we used to treat Chris (Chris is a friend of ours who always received the 3rd degree from us)? Well, you're basically Chris here. How does it feel?"

I actually do enjoy some parts of my job. I enjoy the income. I'm planning for my future. I have fun in my personal time. But most people that I work with - PLEASE LEAVE ME ALONE! I can't say 'that's none of your business' without someone getting all huffy & puffy about it.

 

[jug]

There is nothing to deal with. What they think of you is in their heads, not yours. Never worry about what another person thinks, his thoughts cannot penetrate you. Also, say nothing, this way you do not provoke any stupid behavior. As a matter of fact, be kind, but not too kind.

You live inside your own head, if you are content, on an even keel, what more could you want?

The greatest joy is peace of mind with freedom to do what you please, you have this. Keep digging inside of yourself, it's apparent you are more introspective than the others, learn about yourself, the rest will take care of itself. There is nothing wrong with enjoying the simple peace of your own company, and enjoying what you enjoy, despite what the "experts" tell us.

jug

 

[Amethyst]

I can't say 'that's none of your business' without someone getting all huffy & puffy about it.

You're obviously very smart. Try using some of your brain capacity to think of gracious ways to turn aside impertinent or persistent questions. What works best for me, is to subtly turn the conversation to the other person and his/her interests (asking them about something hot at work, especially gossip, usually works like a charm).

Good luck.

 

[Rambler]

Gee, I think that if you can afford the expensive clothes, some booze and a hookup once in a while, decent gym, decent food, and decent housing, all the while investing in rental properties as well as in the market, they you have it made. Its something to be proud of, not to shy away from. Just tell 'em "gotta fix the plumbing in house #1 ,

 

[landonew]

I would suggest fabricating excuses on why you cannot spend money. What you do with your money is really none of their business.

Examples;
"I have a lot of student loans, and am trying to get out from under them."

"I am saving up for a downpayment on a McMansion."

"I am helping out a relative with medical expenses."

"I am helping put my younger brother through medical school."

"I racked up $40,000 worth of credit card debt in college."

 

[crazy connie]

You can adopt a page from my book:

I will worry about others opinions of me only when they are paying my bills.

You dress to the standard, show up early and ask for more work. The boss is happy. Ignore the noise and there is a lot of noise in business.

 

[Pavo]

Thanks guys. You seem to understand me better than my colleagues and many peers do.

You dress to the standard, show up early and ask for more work. The boss is happy. Ignore the noise and there is a lot of noise in business.

Yes crazy connie. The expensive clothes are work only. I learned how to play the game early on after some mishaps. I dress for success in the office. Outside of the office, plain jeans and a t-shirt is fine by me. Trust me, the dress standard isn't what I really want to do - I don't care about designer clothes. But I know that how you dress and carry yourself at work does matter. Same with showing up early and asking for more work. Gotta play a game here. My image and reputation is uber-clean. The noise though, is something that I am not best at dealing with, yet at least. Perhaps it's just another life lesson for me to learn?

 

[DFrancis]

I can relate. If it was easy, everyone would be rich. It is not, so that is why 10% of the people hold 90% of the wealth. You are making the correct moves in order to build wealth and they are not. In the long run it will pay off well for you and not so well for them. My theory is that I want to be rich not look rich. Stay the course.

 

[FinanceDude]

I think you need some new people to hang out with. Granted, finding other 20-somethings that live a frugal lifestyle might be hard, but well worth it.

Frugality doesn't mean "never have fun", it means have fun whilst keeping the eye "on the prize". You are always welcome here, among us "older folks"........

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I'm going to go against the grain here just a little bit. There is nothing wrong with spending frivolously on occasion. It's not the quantity but quality that matters. So go out with your work friends every once in a while (once a month), and spend the $100-$200 they do. That way, you won't be ostracized nor will you impact your budget all that much. If you go out once a month with your work friends, your talking about spending somewhere around $1,200-$2,400 in a year. This isn't that much money in the grand scheme of things. What you're buying isn't a good time, but rather a place as "one of the guys". Remember, your work friends are your peers, and will be your network as your career advances. They need to be comfortable around you, and declining to socialize with them will keep you from being able to tap a valuable resource in the future.

Don't worry about the money too much right now. They'll eventually come around to your way of thinking as they get married and have kids (in their early-to-mid-30s).

 

[freebird5825]

I would suggest fabricating excuses on why you cannot spend money. What you do with your money is really none of their business.

Examples;
"I have a lot of student loans, and am trying to get out from under them."

"I am saving up for a downpayment on a McMansion."

"I am helping out a relative with medical expenses."

"I am helping put my younger brother through medical school."

"I racked up $40,000 worth of credit card debt in college."

I second this motion.
A good politician always controls his own press releases.
Feed the jackals 1 single line and stick with that story.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Tell them you are saving up to buy an island.

That should shut them up and give you high status.

Then, one day, you might buy an island!

 

[W2R]

I have been dealing with the same issues for a long time, Pavo. I am honest with my co-workers and tell them that these things are too expensive for my budget (when conversation drifts in that direction). They try to persuade me otherwise but I don't budge.

As for the peer pressures, I was able to tough it out. After all, I survived junior high school and never fit in there, either. I guess that is true for many people. I keep my work and my social life separate, and do not spend much if any time with co-workers away from the office. I think this has helped a lot. My co-workers are not my buddies - - my relationship with them is purely a working relationship so my efforts are focused just on efficient interaction on work related matters.

Now that I am ready to retire, they are all befuddled and wondering how I could afford it. Most are telling me they can't even imagine being able to retire for a long, long time. When they ask me how I could possibly retire in 2009, I tell them but it really doesn't seem to sink in. At this point, I don't care because I am moving on.

 

[CuppaJoe]

Welcome back, Pavo. Didn’t I adopt you a year ago? So glad this isn’t the return of the prodigal son. Maybe you just need to finesse the art of changing the subject.

 

[Moemg]

. What you're buying isn't a good time, but rather a place as "one of the guys". Remember, your work friends are your peers, and will be your network as your career advances. They need to be comfortable around you, and declining to socialize with them will keep you from being able to tap a valuable resource in the future.

Don't worry about the money too much right now. They'll eventually come around to your way of thinking as they get married and have kids (in their early-to-mid-30s).

I agree but I think you can do it cheaper than this . Meet the guys occasionally for drinks and if they are going out for dinner or clubbing bail out . The money will be well spent and you may make some great friends.

 

[CoolChange]

Pavo,

I'm about 14 years older than you and still remember being in pretty much the same position as you at a bit younger age. My approach was very similar to what Moemg suggests: I would generally join coworkers for happy hour immediately after work (which I did and still do enjoy on occassion) but bail if they were heading out to expensive dinners, clubs, etc. that did not interest me. I also generally joined for work lunches on occasion. Owning property alwasy gives you a ready made excuse to bail since you always have something that you need to take care of at home.

As Dex noted: Your future income will depend in part on others perception of you personally. I will assume you are a top performer from your posts; but, when times get really tough at the firm, it is much harder to lay-off the guy who is fun to drink with, lunch with, etc. Likewise, when it is time for promotion, they people making the decission will consider how much time they really want to spend with you.

A ray of hope: Now, I am basically FI; so, I can be as weird as I want. I no longer care what coworkers think since I am no longer really playing the game. I'm too gready to just quit while the money keeps flowing; but, work isn't as annoying for me any longer with this freedom. (I also have interesting work and some briliant coworks right now who I actually enjoy spending time with on occassion.) It sounds like you well down the same path.

Good luck and keep the faith!

 

[Pavo]

Ahh, it's been raised from the ashes!!!
Thanks for the wonderful comments. Very much appreciated.

So, I've been staying the course, but I'm not kidding anyone - it is tough at times.

Maybe I can further explain some of my weirdness. I'm a 1st generation from Eastern Europe in the States. My first language wasn't even English - that came in time. So, I was raised in the culture of the old country until I began to assimilate when my parents made the huge push for education and sent us to private schools. I assimilated in school, yet retained my cultural identity without a problem, but today I work in the professional world among yuppies. These guys are all clones, it's sad. So it's tough to balance it all out - deep down inside I am still that boy from Eastern Europe, pale skinned, blue eyed and all, yet I have the smarts and work ethic and discipline to succeed where I am at, but there really isn't anyone like me in my industry. On top of that, I come from a family as blue collar as they come. It's not all that easy to detach from my roots as I won't forget who I am or where I came from. Eventually I'd like to get into a line of work where I'd feel more at ease, but given this economy, and the fact that I won't make as much elsewhere, I will ride this out as long as I can.

If I can just make it a few more years...

Now, something VERY interesting happened a while back. I was at lunch with my manager, who is also a friend. During our meal, he eventually asked about a property I purchased in a subtle way. We began talking about it, but I kept it vague as he began asking some financial questions. He's a smart guy and he pieced my finances together together in his mind from our conversation, also given that I don't spend like colleagues and splurge like others in the office - he turned away staring into space and said 'that's a lot of money.' Very awkward, yet, I looked him directly into the eyes and said 'it is.'

On one hand I felt great knowing I have an upper hand of sorts, and on the other hand, I was scared because I don't want to piss anyone off, especially in this economy where I still have plenty of work at my firm, but if I were to leave, then woe is me. But, given that it's a recession and many colleagues are walking on pins (it's clearly visible in demeanor), I am financially secure and confident. I'm not wealthy, but it's kind of like I am secretly laughing now as I have a sizable nest egg.

I'm not sure what my manager was getting it. One of my friends said he was trying to size me up. My dad said it's because he is hurting financially as he had EVERYTHING invested in stocks, whereas my assets are more in real estate as passive income. I don't know. Sometimes I get the feeling that he is now jealous of me, which I don't want. I don't want to be hated.

Honestly, all I want is to FIRE to do what I want - spend time with family, travel, pursue a line of work which is a self-fulfilling hobby, etc. All of this noise and peer pressure that I have to navigate stinks!