I had one colleague who took in all the BS from the boss, and he was one who will stay in his job to the end. Well, guess what, he stayed until now .. but at a great cost to his health. It started with irregular heart beats because of the BS he was bombarded, and he after a few months - he had 2 heart operations. And after these heart operations, he could no longer leave the job, because he fears his healthcare cost will go up as his last heart operation was $900,000, and he feared that no insurance company will cover him (this was before ACA). Last time we talked, I told him that ACA will probably cover his condition now. But he said he'll stay 2 years and retire.
Young & Not Enough Nest Egg - What's your minimum FU Money ?
- Thread starter cyber888
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Big_Hitter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
agreed - getting pissed and leaving a job without one already lined up is the kiss of death in business
"so why did you leave your last job?"
"oh, I got fed up and left"
"k thanks for coming in"
Sarah in SC
Moderator Emeritus
Lol, there's a lot more finesse in it than that.
AKA be a better BSer than the above exchange.
My daddy did not raise me to take anyone's crap, for money or for love.
Lol, I don't know if it's my ISTJ personality but I suck at dissembling and will probably blurt out Big_Hitter's dialogue verbatim.
Teacher Terry
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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- 7,084
When I was young I quit a few crappy jobs with no job but my hubby was working making decent $. After I got my degrees I always had a job before quitting and then like manyothers got a state job with great bennies, pensions,etc and there was no amount of BS that could make me leave. I wanted that pension which I am now enjoying.
Closet_Gamer
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I'll offer a useful distinction:
There is "Go to h*ll" money and then there is "FU money."
Go to h*ll money is about leaving the situation but staying in the industry.
FU money is really saying "I don't really care about the damage i leave in my wake, its no longer relevant to me what anyone in the industry thinks."
Closet_Gamer
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
This short video from the movie The Gambler sums up the concept of FU money perfectly.
WARNING: EXPLICIT. Not for tender ears.
https://youtu.be/xdfeXqHFmPI
WARNING: EXPLICIT. Not for tender ears.
https://youtu.be/xdfeXqHFmPI
"FIRE" Money and "FU" Money are just 2 different things to me. The FU Money is the $ you have to comfortably to tell you boss to FU and quit so you can do something else .. but no rush to find another job .. but eventually you're not retiring and still want to work. You work on your own terms and what you want to do. FIRE money means, you do not work forever. I think Money Moustache got FU money to quit in his 30s, but not really FIRE money because he's still doing some work here and there to survive.
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I guess my answer has to be about $300k.
That's what I had in 2008 when I-suddenly and very publicly-left a very high profile job in my community. My departure made the local newspaper and radio.
Two weeks later Lehman brothers collapsed, and the major local employers instituted hiring freezes.
It was an anxious time, but I got picked up by December-despite the hiring freezes.
I never regretted the choice. Some things simply can't be tolerated.
That's what I had in 2008 when I-suddenly and very publicly-left a very high profile job in my community. My departure made the local newspaper and radio.
Two weeks later Lehman brothers collapsed, and the major local employers instituted hiring freezes.
It was an anxious time, but I got picked up by December-despite the hiring freezes.
I never regretted the choice. Some things simply can't be tolerated.
Lol, there's a lot more finesse in it than that.
AKA be a better BSer than the above exchange.
My daddy did not raise me to take anyone's crap, for money or for love.
In my case the line was "The newly elected Board President and I had major differences in philosophy..."
Left implied was "I chose to let him fail on his own."
ESRwannabe
Full time employment: Posting here.
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2010
- Messages
- 889
I kind of stumbled onto the concept of early retirement specifically because of my saving up FU money to reduce job stress.
To answer the question though, I would just need a year's worth of living expenses.
Anyway what happened is I have always lived below my means. So saving up a year's salary for FU was easy and I still had lots of savings coming in. So then I thought what would be even better would be if I could generate extra cash flow in addition to the FU money held in cash. The reasoning being that even though a year is a long time, you never know if that is enough. So it would be better to build up cash flow to replace living expenses for FU money.
Well, eventually it became apparent that this was no longer just for FU money, but I could actually retire this way...
Right now my taxable account dividends bring in around $23k and my living expenses are $28k. My w-2 income is around $60k.... So, I'm in pretty good shape on the FU money...
To answer the question though, I would just need a year's worth of living expenses.
Anyway what happened is I have always lived below my means. So saving up a year's salary for FU was easy and I still had lots of savings coming in. So then I thought what would be even better would be if I could generate extra cash flow in addition to the FU money held in cash. The reasoning being that even though a year is a long time, you never know if that is enough. So it would be better to build up cash flow to replace living expenses for FU money.
Well, eventually it became apparent that this was no longer just for FU money, but I could actually retire this way...
Right now my taxable account dividends bring in around $23k and my living expenses are $28k. My w-2 income is around $60k.... So, I'm in pretty good shape on the FU money...
aaronc879
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
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- Messages
- 5,351
I walked out on my job in 2011. It was unplanned. One day I just had enough, walked out, and didn't go back. I was 31 at the time and had about $150K and a paid off condo(worth $40K) and was spending under $20K/yr. I never went back to full time work, now 36, I just do contract work about 80 days a year to cover my expenses and let my investments grow untouched.
I just saw 'The Gambler' again. And when he paid off all his debt and the loan shark (Goodman) said 'here's your extra $100,000, because you're still not in a Fk U you position'. The Gambler goes 'No Thanks, Fk You'. He runs and he felt totally free .. no money, but no debt as well and he can't wait to see his girl.
r2021t
Dryer sheet aficionado
Hear, hear. I worked in local government for 30 years. I had my share of crappy bosses, men and women who were the definition of the 'Peter Principle', but the comment above is so true.
Ron
Research has shown that managers/supervisors have the most stress in an organization: they are "sandwiched" between the directives from above and the people they supervise. It's not easy supervising, for a number of reasons.
My ex (very good) boss and I used to say if you haven't had at least one bad boss in your career there's something wrong with you. OTOH, Brian Tracy says you can make more progress in your career in one year under a good boss than in five under a bad boss. I saw this so many times I stopped paying attention.
IMO, focusing on "f/u" $ is a mistake. Viewing work this way demonstrates you're taking your career personally, instead of strategically. A million things can go wrong with a job: you lose it without warning because company merges, restructures, a new CEO with much fanfare launches an "exciting new direction" (read: layoffs) the company is taking (which turns out to be fruitless after a few years and his/her several hundred $ golden parachute), your good boss leaves and you get one whose head never leaves a very dark place, your job is eliminated--even one of your so-called "stakeholders" could make life miserable for you.
The key is, if you have personally identified goals and are working on/towards them--the organization and all of its dysfunction will disinterest you. Focus on where you're going, not where you are leaving. You could ask yourself some important questions like: what's the opportunity in this situation and how can I use what's going on to my advantage?; what's my next miracle gonna be?; a year from now how will I be proud of how I handled this situation? Then get busy creating your next awesome job/best-boss-ever situation. I know this works because it is exactly what I did.
Viewing bad work situations from the perspective of what's next for you will allow all the crummy (and quite meaningless) stuff to flow through you like water. Yes, even that bossfromhell will sound like a wah-wah Charlie Brown character because you have made the situation insignificant (once you've realized there's nothing constructive you can do to fix it, of course).
My ex (very good) boss and I used to say if you haven't had at least one bad boss in your career there's something wrong with you.
OTOH, Brian Tracy says you can make more progress in your career in one year under a good boss than in five under a bad boss. I saw this so many times I stopped paying attention.IMO, focusing on "f/u" $ is a mistake. Viewing work this way demonstrates you're taking your career personally, instead of strategically. A million things can go wrong with a job: you lose it without warning because company merges, restructures, a new CEO with much fanfare launches an "exciting new direction" (read: layoffs) the company is taking (which turns out to be fruitless after a few years and his/her several hundred $ golden parachute), your good boss leaves and you get one whose head never leaves a very dark place, your job is eliminated--even one of your so-called "stakeholders" could make life miserable for you.
The key is, if you have personally identified goals and are working on/towards them--the organization and all of its dysfunction will disinterest you. Focus on where you're going, not where you are leaving. You could ask yourself some important questions like: what's the opportunity in this situation and how can I use what's going on to my advantage?; what's my next miracle gonna be?; a year from now how will I be proud of how I handled this situation? Then get busy creating your next awesome job/best-boss-ever situation. I know this works because it is exactly what I did.
Viewing bad work situations from the perspective of what's next for you will allow all the crummy (and quite meaningless) stuff to flow through you like water. Yes, even that bossfromhell will sound like a wah-wah Charlie Brown character because you have made the situation insignificant (once you've realized there's nothing constructive you can do to fix it, of course).
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Im 33, wife is 32 and we have a 10+ years ER at the moment. (saving for a house) I still wouldnt feel comfortable walking away from a job without having a new one. I wouldnt have the slightest idea how long it would take to find a new one. That simply means I would be removing money from my ER that I will have to someday replenish.
Most users on these forums want to retire early...leaving a job without having a new one isnt very smart. Even if a job sucks most people can bs there way through it a couple weeks doing very little and still hold on to it.
To answer the OP's question...it would have to be when im ready to retire. Somewhere between 1.5 - 2 million...although I would hope its north of that when the time comes to call it quits. The easiest time to find a job is when you have one!
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I agree with Options. Except for the bolded. Having FU money in place allows me to mentally accomplish the other items listed. And, yes, I have used my FU option.
Research has shown that managers/supervisors have the most stress in an organization: they are "sandwiched" between the directives from above and the people they supervise. It's not easy supervising, for a number of reasons.
My ex (very good) boss and I used to say if you haven't had at least one bad boss in your career there's something wrong with you.
IMO, focusing on "f/u" $ is a mistake. Viewing work this way demonstrates you're taking your career personally, instead of strategically. A million things can go wrong with a job: you lose it without warning because company merges, restructures, a new CEO with much fanfare launches an "exciting new direction" (read: layoffs) the company is taking (which turns out to be fruitless after a few years and his/her several hundred $ golden parachute), your good boss leaves and you get one whose head never leaves a very dark place, your job is eliminated--even one of your so-called "stakeholders" could make life miserable for you.
The key is, if you have personally identified goals and are working on/towards them--the organization and all of its dysfunction will disinterest you. Focus on where you're going, not where you are leaving. You could ask yourself some important questions like: what's the opportunity in this situation and how can I use what's going on to my advantage?; what's my next miracle gonna be?; a year from now how will I be proud of how I handled this situation? Then get busy creating your next awesome job/best-boss-ever situation. I know this works because it is exactly what I did.
Viewing bad work situations from the perspective of what's next for you will allow all the crummy (and quite meaningless) stuff to flow through you like water. Yes, even that bossfromhell will sound like a wah-wah Charlie Brown character because you have made the situation insignificant (once you've realized there's nothing constructive you can do to fix it, of course).
Just because you tell your boss 'FU', does not mean you can't get a job very soon.
Research has shown that managers/supervisors have the most stress in an organization: they are "sandwiched" between the directives from above and the people they supervise. It's not easy supervising, for a number of reasons.
My ex (very good) boss and I used to say if you haven't had at least one bad boss in your career there's something wrong with you.
IMO, focusing on "f/u" $ is a mistake. Viewing work this way demonstrates you're taking your career personally, instead of strategically. A million things can go wrong with a job: you lose it without warning because company merges, restructures, a new CEO with much fanfare launches an "exciting new direction" (read: layoffs) the company is taking (which turns out to be fruitless after a few years and his/her several hundred $ golden parachute), your good boss leaves and you get one whose head never leaves a very dark place, your job is eliminated--even one of your so-called "stakeholders" could make life miserable for you.
The key is, if you have personally identified goals and are working on/towards them--the organization and all of its dysfunction will disinterest you. Focus on where you're going, not where you are leaving. You could ask yourself some important questions like: what's the opportunity in this situation and how can I use what's going on to my advantage?; what's my next miracle gonna be?; a year from now how will I be proud of how I handled this situation? Then get busy creating your next awesome job/best-boss-ever situation. I know this works because it is exactly what I did.
Viewing bad work situations from the perspective of what's next for you will allow all the crummy (and quite meaningless) stuff to flow through you like water. Yes, even that bossfromhell will sound like a wah-wah Charlie Brown character because you have made the situation insignificant (once you've realized there's nothing constructive you can do to fix it, of course).
Markola
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Young & Not Enough Nest Egg - What's your minimum FU Money ?
All I know is, the more FU Money I have, the more confident I am to walk, if needed. Saving up more and more months, then years worth of expenses, and avoiding debt and financial entanglements gives one confidence and security, whether one ever actually uses it or needs it or not. If you ever do deploy your FU Money, it is probably best to say the words silently to yourself but say out loud that you are leaving to explore some specific opportunity or passion.
All I know is, the more FU Money I have, the more confident I am to walk, if needed. Saving up more and more months, then years worth of expenses, and avoiding debt and financial entanglements gives one confidence and security, whether one ever actually uses it or needs it or not. If you ever do deploy your FU Money, it is probably best to say the words silently to yourself but say out loud that you are leaving to explore some specific opportunity or passion.
To be clear (and as I've posted before), the world of work is rapidly changing, and in my view, at least in the short term, not for the better for anyone who is currently working:
The Robots Are Coming … to Take Your Job
Emphasis added
Failing to focus on career/job/work strategically, as opposed to personally, is a mistake, in my view. Anyone in their thirties and forties would be well advised to consider the "brick wall" most workers start hitting once they reach their fifties (an NYT article this weekend covered marginalized older workers in tech, noting the average age of workers in this country is forty-two; average age in tech is twenty-nine).
Walking off a job, unless it's to another job with more money, benefits, long-term opportunities, is unwise. In a boss-from-hell situation (and who hasn't had one?), at the very least strive to get a separation package (a few months salary/benefits in lieu of getting fired) and having your unemployment uncontested. There's simply too much at stake to fail to be methodical in managing all aspects of your career and work life. You can bet the people at so-called "leadership" levels of organizations do it all the time (how else do you explain a failed CEO who does not improve a company's performance during his tenure yet walks out with a $230M severance package?). Why shouldn't you?
The Robots Are Coming … to Take Your Job
Emphasis added
Failing to focus on career/job/work strategically, as opposed to personally, is a mistake, in my view. Anyone in their thirties and forties would be well advised to consider the "brick wall" most workers start hitting once they reach their fifties (an NYT article this weekend covered marginalized older workers in tech, noting the average age of workers in this country is forty-two; average age in tech is twenty-nine).
Walking off a job, unless it's to another job with more money, benefits, long-term opportunities, is unwise. In a boss-from-hell situation (and who hasn't had one?), at the very least strive to get a separation package (a few months salary/benefits in lieu of getting fired) and having your unemployment uncontested. There's simply too much at stake to fail to be methodical in managing all aspects of your career and work life. You can bet the people at so-called "leadership" levels of organizations do it all the time (how else do you explain a failed CEO who does not improve a company's performance during his tenure yet walks out with a $230M severance package?). Why shouldn't you?
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I'm basically in this situation as well. I am less stressed out and put up with less BS and speak up for myself more now simply because I know I'll be just fine if I walked out. Bosses hate this as they want to have leverage on you, which makes me laugh.
surf n turf
Dryer sheet wannabe
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2012
- Messages
- 15
I just did the "FU I quit" thing on Jan 12th. I had enough of the company culture and didn't like the current direction they were going in, so that Tuesday I walked in, decided that I wasn't going to complete the shift, and proceeded to hand in my security card and keys, and quit. All on principle alone. The look on their face was priceless. They couldn't believe I was walking. The Boss offered to give me a night to think about it and change my mind. They've recently offered me my job back. I declined. That part alone was worth it. Very liberating.
I didn't have another job lined up. 20.5 years with the company, 5 weeks vacation, 30 and out pension, gone! It took me about a month to get another job after spending 2 weeks in Mexico getting my soul back. It was about a 30% pay decrease but with opportunity to get back the pay + within a year or so. Vacations started all over. Bottom of the senority list, etc. It's been an emotional roller coaster as I always thought that I was going to "make" the 30 year pension and just up and quitting was not like me. I think I may have done it just to prove I still has something left in me. I just couldn't handle another 9.5 years in that place. It was THAT bad. Now I'm having some quitters remorse but I'm mostly hopeful that I can stay on track and make a good run of it for the next 10-15 years and still retire early. I'm with a much better company now so that really helps my future outlook.
My financial situation when I walked:
Age 42
S.O. that brings in 75k+/yr
paid off mortgage
no debt
20k in cash
210k in his/her Roth and 401k rollovers
I felt fine quitting with only 20k cash on hand and zero debt, but was mostly concerned with the fact that my "timeline" is now pushed further back unless I save more aggressively to make up for the loss in income with the new job and the month hiatus.
I didn't have another job lined up. 20.5 years with the company, 5 weeks vacation, 30 and out pension, gone! It took me about a month to get another job after spending 2 weeks in Mexico getting my soul back. It was about a 30% pay decrease but with opportunity to get back the pay + within a year or so. Vacations started all over. Bottom of the senority list, etc. It's been an emotional roller coaster as I always thought that I was going to "make" the 30 year pension and just up and quitting was not like me. I think I may have done it just to prove I still has something left in me. I just couldn't handle another 9.5 years in that place. It was THAT bad. Now I'm having some quitters remorse but I'm mostly hopeful that I can stay on track and make a good run of it for the next 10-15 years and still retire early. I'm with a much better company now so that really helps my future outlook.
My financial situation when I walked:
Age 42
S.O. that brings in 75k+/yr
paid off mortgage
no debt
20k in cash
210k in his/her Roth and 401k rollovers
I felt fine quitting with only 20k cash on hand and zero debt, but was mostly concerned with the fact that my "timeline" is now pushed further back unless I save more aggressively to make up for the loss in income with the new job and the month hiatus.
Markola
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Seems like you still have a lot of levers to pull thanks to your skills, young age, spouse's income, no debt, and other good choices. You could save a ton and FIRE in 10-15 years, as you mentioned, or downsize and amp up savings even more; move to a less expensive area or country; go part time in a few years and extend your time to FIRE; do some entirely other kind of w*rk you discover that is fun enough to not be a huge burden, and other levers. Walking out of a bad situation as you did will also probably help you become more independent and bullet proof psychologically, which are very valuable assets to have that the masses who trudge to prison every day will never know. Bravo, I say.
I tip my hat to you sir. At 42, yes you can indeed get other jobs and start fresh.
Don't look back - I know 20 years in a job is a long time and many memories.
It will be hard to shake those 20 years. But thank god, you've got a new job now. It's another journey. Good luck.
Don't look back - I know 20 years in a job is a long time and many memories.
It will be hard to shake those 20 years. But thank god, you've got a new job now. It's another journey. Good luck.
surf n turf
Dryer sheet wannabe
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2012
- Messages
- 15
Thanks for the vote of confidence! It's going to be interesting these next few years. First priority is getting my income back to where it was plus some. It will happen but I'm relegated to a "starter" position for about a year and there is no way around it. At least my income has nowhere to go but up from here.
