14 million people who don't show up in most of the numbers

[HFWR]

I route my computer sound through my TV and on to the speakers. I turned on the TV to play this link, and before I set TV to receive from the computer I saw an ad for SS disability insurance. (SSDI)

At night I often watch Route 66, or The Saint, with Roger Moore, on some off brand UHF channel. Three major ad categories (in no order) are 1) firms that buy annuities for cash, "24 hours max to get your money". 2)Lawyers advertiising for plaintiffs for failed hip prosthesis cases and pelvic mesh surgery complaints, and 3)lawyers advertising for clients for SS Disability appeals and initial applications.

Ha

But do you have "The Texas Hammer"? (Motto: we'll law their asses...)

The Texas Hammer - YouTube

 

[haha]

But do you have "The Texas Hammer"? (Motto: we'll law their asses...)

The Texas Hammer - YouTube

I wish I had this guy a few years back when I was injured in a wreck, instead of the lily-livered white shoe dude that I got.

Ha

 

[serie1926]

I route my computer sound through my TV and on to the speakers. I turned on the TV to play this link, and before I set TV to receive from the computer I saw an ad for SS disability insurance. (SSDI)

Too funny!

 

[Koolau]

Though fictitious (from Breaking Bad), this is a better commercial (in my opinion) YMMV

Bob Odenkirk - Better Call Saul! _Breaking Bad - YouTube

 

[palomalou]

It is possible that many employed people qualify for disability but choose to continue working. Some may find that if they lose their jobs they are unable to find new employment because of their ailments or just because of their age. Disability is not the preferred option, it is the only one remaining.

I could have gone on disability for several conditions. However, the only job I truly couldn't do would be construction.

 

[Koolau]

Just thinking about my dad as we discuss disability. He was missing most of a hand since his early adulthood (still had a working thumb, basically). He never let that affect him (and never let anyone else help him). If it bothered him when people either stared or even asked "how it happened", he never let on. But ("Before my time, but I've been told..." Steve Earl from Copperhead Road) when he went in for a driving test one time, the inspector was pretty sure my dad would not pass the test - and told him so. So, my dad lit a cigarette, with the hand, smoked it during the test using his good hand, and used only his "bad" hand to drive (shifted the floor shift with his feet). He scared the shasbot out of the inspector - but passed.

Dad never considered himself disabled, and never applied for it, even though he would have qualified. Just an anecdotal story, worth what you paid for it, perhaps. YMMV>

 

[jollystomper]

Apologies if this has already been posted.

Pretty astounding move from welfare to disability.

http://apps.npr.org/unfit-for-work/

Thanks for the link, it was very interesting. Lots of examples of "The Law of Unintended Consequences" at work. Interesting that back/muscle and mental issues have risen from less than 18% of disabled workers in the 60s to over half today.

It especially troubled me about the child disability payments, which gives parents an incentive to not help their children overcome their learning disabilities... if they are being taught at a young age not to try to do better, what bodes for them when they become adults?

 

[bUU]

Just thinking about my dad as we discuss disability. He was missing most of a hand since his early adulthood (still had a working thumb, basically). He never let that affect him (and never let anyone else help him).

I think now it is more a matter of whether other people let such things affect them. One would think the laws would protect folks against discrimination on the basis of disability, but the reality is that the process of hiring people is such that it is often easy to discriminate on that basis but hide that discrimination behind a subjective judgement on some other criterion.

I am concerned about how things will work out for my friend. She recently was blinded, due to an injury received from Superstorm Sandy (long story). Her job can be done by a blind person, but of course you can imagine there is a difference between a blind person, who has been blind all their life, and has received all manner of training and assistance regarding interacting in a sighted world, and someone who was suddenly and unexpectedly blinded late in her working years. Will the employer provide her the time and resources necessary to return to productivity in her role in our company? Or will they, at some point, say that teaching someone the basics of working blind is beyond the scope of reasonable accommodation under ADA, and direct her onto disability?

 

[ERD50]

'Interesting' that something that has a clear diagnosis like cancer hasn't had a big change, but the somewhat vague/subjective things like 'back pain' have increased. Not too hard to come to a conclusion on that.


-ERD50

 

[Mulligan]

'Interesting' that something that has a clear diagnosis like cancer hasn't had a big change, but the somewhat vague/subjective things like 'back pain' have increased. Not too hard to come to a conclusion on that.

-ERD50

I tend to agree, but on the determination at the individual level, I would hate to be the one to decide how severe the back pain is and ones tolerance level. Up until 2 years ago, I would have thought anyone laid up from back pain was just a wimp. Did I sure get an education on that the summer before last. I couldn't move for 2 weeks and would have put a bullet in my head if I was told I had to deal with it the rest of my life. It went away thankfully, but it sure enlightened me on what back pain can potentially be for someone.

 

[haha]

Thanks for the link, it was very interesting. Lots of examples of "The Law of Unintended Consequences" at work. Interesting that back/muscle and mental issues have risen from less than 18% of disabled workers in the 60s to over half today.

It especially troubled me about the child disability payments, which gives parents an incentive to not help their children overcome their learning disabilities... if they are being taught at a young age not to try to do better, what bodes for them when they become adults?

More welfare, under whatever name.

Ha

 

[ERhoosier]

Moral of the story: If you're on disability, don't run marathons and don't talk to FOX News.

Or in this woman's case, US District Court while on disability from US Postal Service-

Postal employee on workers

 

[bondi688]

Interestingly , I got this spam email in my email account today that says, call this lawyer if you have neck or back pain and need help getting on SSI.

 

[ERD50]

I tend to agree, but on the determination at the individual level, I would hate to be the one to decide how severe the back pain is and ones tolerance level. Up until 2 years ago, I would have thought anyone laid up from back pain was just a wimp. Did I sure get an education on that the summer before last. I couldn't move for 2 weeks and would have put a bullet in my head if I was told I had to deal with it the rest of my life. It went away thankfully, but it sure enlightened me on what back pain can potentially be for someone.

No question that back pain can be disabling (I've experienced it myself). But so is cancer, so why the difference on that chart?

-ERD50

 

[Mulligan]

No question that back pain can be disabling (I've experienced it myself). But so is cancer, so why the difference on that chart?

-ERD50

I definitely agree there is fraud. I just imagine it is hard to determine the genuine disability from the fraudulent ones concerning back pain.

 

[Koolau]

I think now it is more a matter of whether other people let such things affect them. One would think the laws would protect folks against discrimination on the basis of disability, but the reality is that the process of hiring people is such that it is often easy to discriminate on that basis but hide that discrimination behind a subjective judgement on some other criterion.

I am concerned about how things will work out for my friend. She recently was blinded, due to an injury received from Superstorm Sandy (long story). Her job can be done by a blind person, but of course you can imagine there is a difference between a blind person, who has been blind all their life, and has received all manner of training and assistance regarding interacting in a sighted world, and someone who was suddenly and unexpectedly blinded late in her working years. Will the employer provide her the time and resources necessary to return to productivity in her role in our company? Or will they, at some point, say that teaching someone the basics of working blind is beyond the scope of reasonable accommodation under ADA, and direct her onto disability?

My dad had a defense plant job during the war (obviously, "not fit for military service" - but he could always beat me at shooting trap and other targets. Nor did I ever consider going one-on-one with him during a disagreement, heh, heh.) When "the boys" came home, my dad had 3 strikes against him. He was now over 40, he wasn't a "vet" and he was "disabled". There were NO gummint checks available to him either. All he could do was whine/beg/live under a bridge, etc. or start his own business - He started a business. His business is there to this day with the 3rd generation.

It's amazing what folks CAN do when they have no other choices available to them. I'm not against helping the less fortunate, but I do think we need more tailoring of "welfare" to the individual, rather than just passing out checks and causing ever more dependency as the graphs (and current levels of unemployment) show. I do not consider myself "hard-hearted" at all. I WANT everyone to have a job, food, a place to live, etc. etc. But there is an amazing level of personal drive and ambition created when one is a bit "hungry", "broke", "homeless", etc. - if there is no gummint check readily available to bail one out. At some point, we do need to step in and "help". But I think the pendulum has swung too far when the lawyers have created a cottage industry of getting folks their "rightful" benefits. Just my opinion, so YMMV.

 

[Katsmeow]

No question that back pain can be disabling (I've experienced it myself). But so is cancer, so why the difference on that chart?

-ERD50

Of course, not all cancer results in long-term disability. Lots of people who have cancer are off work for some period of time and then are able to return to work. I think, however, that most of the people who would be long-term and permanently disabled from cancer are people who, well, end up being removed from the disability rolls due to death. Not many people die from back pain.

I also think that a factor in disability depends upon the nature of your job. I would guess that a lot of the people who are disabled due to back pain are people who performed manual labor and the inability to lift things for example would disable that person from that person's regular occupations and those for which the person is trained. That is, someone who works construction and can't lift 50 pounds may be disabled from that occupation which, say, a lawyer that can't lift 50 pounds isn't disabled from that occupation. However, you can't just tell the disabled construction worker to go be a lawyer....

 

[bUU]

It's amazing what folks CAN do when they have no other choices available to them.

Random chance isn't that amazing to me, but I do worry quite a bit about the idea that we should, to any significant extent, leave such things up to luck, especially given that the actual odds of success are much less rosy that your story would tend to make one think.

 

[Htown Harry]

I recently assisted a relative with an SSDI application. I thought I'd post a few details about it because it shows a positive aspect to the program, from both the policy and practical perspective.

In researching the qualifications criteria and the application process, I learned SSA maintains a list of "slam dunk" conditions that receive expedited consideration and approval. With one of these conditions, your application goes to the front of the line. While the list is long, you'll see it mostly consists of rare and fatal conditions whose name would only be recognized by medical personnel. None of them are candidates to be faked or exaggerated.

In my relative's case, the disabling condition is listed. I had copies of medical records and the organizational ability to prepare a complete application with supporting materials. After completing an online application, the follow-up consisted of a routine second round of paperwork by mail and one follow-up phone question, to determine the exact date the applicant had last worked rather than the month and year I had provided in the application.

The first check was direct deposited in less than 45 days. No lawyers, no special exams, no waiting in line for a face-to-face appointment.

This is a very different result from the average or the mean application time. I am grateful SSA has this program, both personally and as a citizen. Every one of us benefits when legitimate applications are handled quickly and accurately.

Compassionate Allowances Complete List of Conditions

Social Security has an obligation to provide benefits quickly to applicants whose medical conditions are so serious that their conditions obviously meet disability standards.

Compassionate Allowances (CAL) are a way of quickly identifying diseases and other medical conditions that invariably qualify under the Listing of Impairments based on minimal objective medical information. Compassionate Allowances allow Social Security to target the most obviously disabled individuals for allowances based on objective medical information that we can obtain quickly. Compassionate Allowances is not a separate program from the Social Security Disability Insurance or Supplemental Security Income programs.

 

[dmpi]

I believe a percentage of the people with back and muscle pains are simply folks addicted to oxycontin and other narcotics. The amount of painkillers prescribed today is staggering. It's difficult if not impossible to sort out the fakers from the ones in real pain.

 

[mickeyd]

I can't help but wonder if Veteran's Administration disability stats are missing from those economic figures as well.

There are hundreds of thousands of vets who draw some form of (tax free) disability from the VA and about 600,000 or so claims still pending. Many of these claims are for Vietnam vets who have been disabled due to their contact with Dioxin (Agent Orange) as far back as the 60's.

 

[haha]

I recently assisted a relative with an SSDI application. I thought I'd post a few details about it because it shows a positive aspect to the program, from both the policy and practical perspective.

In researching the qualifications criteria and the application process, I learned SSA maintains a list of "slam dunk" conditions that receive expedited consideration and approval. With one of these conditions, your application goes to the front of the line. While the list is long, you'll see it mostly consists of rare and fatal conditions whose name would only be recognized by medical personnel. None of them are candidates to be faked or exaggerated.

In my relative's case, the disabling condition is listed. I had copies of medical records and the organizational ability to prepare a complete application with supporting materials. After completing an online application, the follow-up consisted of a routine second round of paperwork by mail and one follow-up phone question, to determine the exact date the applicant had last worked rather than the month and year I had provided in the application.

The first check was direct deposited in less than 45 days. No lawyers, no special exams, no waiting in line for a face-to-face appointment.

This is a very different result from the average or the mean application time. I am grateful SSA has this program, both personally and as a citizen. Every one of us benefits when legitimate applications are handled quickly and accurately.

Compassionate Allowances Complete List of Conditions

Harry, I am sorry about your relative's illness, but glad you could help him with this application. Like you say, no doubt about these conditions being disabling.

Ha

 

[MichaelB]

Thanks all for a lively discussion.

Porky Pig Cartoon Ending "That's All Folks!" - YouTube