Are you on drugs?

[Rick_Head]

I'm not, DW is, good idea, who knows, not me or her.
<sarc-on>

However, if my doc suggested I should be, I might be, but unlikely. After all, (s)he is just a dupe of "big pharma".

It's good to see that a large percentage of the population here knows more than someone with an MD. Education is overrated. I'd rather see a chiropractor or naturopath than a real doctor if I felt bad. But, maybe, a faith healer might be smarter.

I might even go to a quack if it made me feel better, especially if it was for my kid and not me : Little scientific, nothing native, about U.S. treatment taken by cancer-stricken aboriginal girls | National Post

<sarc-off>.

 

[Nodak]

I am on one prescription for high blood pressure and I take it every day. Have no interest in risking more serious problems.

 

[EastWest Gal]

I am planning to not take all the prescription drugs doctors prescribe.

Why should I need them in older ages if I never needed them before?

I find your statement a little cryptic and probably not well thought out. That's ok. We all blurt out things that we haven't completely thought through. My food for thought on the subject:

1. The past does not predict the future when it comes to health. We all get old, unless we are unfortunate enough to die young. Many illnesses occur when your body gets older. Cardiovascular disease for one. Cancer. Type 2 diabetes. Hypertension. None of these are particularly common in 20 year olds. Many of these illnesses are manageable and with medications and some also with lifestyle changes.

2. Your statement suggests that you believe you know more about illness than your doctor. As a physician, I am still in awe of the knowledge and skills of us medical folks. I read more medical materials now, one month away from full retirement, than I did in med school. The knowledge base has increased exponentially. I am still studying to keep my board certification current, in case I want to volunteer or work part time if I get bored in retirement. I'm intrigued with what you think you know that your doctor doesn't.

3. If you don't trust your doctor, and you question his/her judgement, then you need a new doctor.

4. If you don't take prescribed meds without discussing and collaborating with your doctor, your doctor has every right to dismiss you from his/her practice for non-compliance. There is always room to discuss with your doctor why a med is prescribed, the risks and the benefits. But to refuse to take them without discussion doesn't make much sense.

I don't understand why you would do this to yourself. An example: If you have diabetes that cannot be controlled with diet you will die a lot earlier if you stop your meds, often within days to weeks. In 1993 I noticed my dad drinking a ton of liquid and going to the bathroom at a family gathering. I told him I was sure he had just developed diabetes. He went to the doctor within 24 hrs and started meds right away, as well as a low glycemic index diet. He died in 2009 with his blood glucose in perfect control, from other causes at age 80. We had a friend who developed Type 2 diabetes a year ago, in his early 40s. He did not follow the diet and probably did not take his meds regularly. He died 4 months later from complications of diabetes.

You may want to rethink your plan, IMO. Everyone has the right to do stupid things, but no one has protection from the consequences of their own stupidity. You and your loved ones would be the ones harmed by such a choice.

 

[Animorph]

I never needed drugs to pee before, but I do now. Not taking them would be very uncomfortable.

 

[kitesurfer2]

funny how no one has mentioned that many people have replaced all their prescription drugs with medical cannabis. it's natural with zero side effects.

 

[donheff]

funny how no one has mentioned that many people have replaced all their prescription drugs with medical cannabis. it's natural with zero side effects.

DW just got her medical marijuana card after reading anecdotal reports that it helps restless leg syndrome (of course, there are anecdotal reports that it helps everything). Anyway, she took a couple of hits the other night and slept for 10 hours. Placebo? Who cares? I tried a few tokes out of curiosity. (Yeah, yeah, tsk tsk: but it's only a misdemeanor here and we just voted to make it legal.) Pretty good, but the reports of how the new stuff is 10x more potent than it was in our youth are vastly overstated.

Edit: there are too side effects - they prompt most of the interest.

 

[donheff]

I'm considering taking a break from my statin. I was on Zocor, but the doc switched me to Lipitor (actually generics for both) because I'm diabetic and the Zocor is supposed to raise blood sugar. But I've been experiencing serious muscle aches and some weakness since I switched. LDL is 84, HDL is 48, so I think I can quit for a couple of months to see if the muscle issues go away. I'm between doctor visits, so I think I'll deliver it as a fait accompli next trip. It will also be interesting see what the numbers are without the statin.

I would never consider doing this with my diabetes or BP meds, but I'm not convinced about the efficacy of statins.

If you spend a bit of time reading the literature on the statins you will not hesitate to drop them. Muscle pain is a well known side effect and the benefits on heart disease and overall mortality are borderline at best. What statins do very effectively is change numbers - but that doesn't translate to health. If you are actually worried about numbers try cutting your carbs way down. If you read the literature on that (or just skim some of the threads here) you will see that LCHF can fairly reliably be counted on to significantly lower triglicerides and raise HDL. My triglycerides went from 137 to 52 and HDL from 67 to 93. Those early numbers are on statins, the later numbers off statins.

 

[candrew]

The late, great Robin Williams.

 

[Bestwifeever]

funny how no one has mentioned that many people have replaced all their prescription drugs with medical cannabis. it's natural with zero side effects.

I bet it has a side affect on the grocery bill.

I never heard that medical cannabis cures all ailments so could replace all prescription drugs, but I guess someone using marijuana wouldn't really care

 

[kcowan]

I'm considering taking a break from my statin. I was on Zocor, but the doc switched me to Lipitor (actually generics for both) because I'm diabetic and the Zocor is supposed to raise blood sugar. But I've been experiencing serious muscle aches and some weakness since I switched. LDL is 84, HDL is 48, so I think I can quit for a couple of months to see if the muscle issues go away. I'm between doctor visits, so I think I'll deliver it as a fait accompli next trip. It will also be interesting see what the numbers are without the statin...

When I first started on Lipitor, I had no muscle problems. But severe aches developed with intense exercise several years later. I stopped cold turkey! A year later my total cholesterol was high but my ratio is great. So far so good.

I am taking meds for hypertension and COPD now. But I went for 8 years without anything.

 

[ls99]

For the last ten years or so have not taken any prescription drugs, except on very short occasions for specific problem like ear infection.

In the past I posted about my survival in spite of several prescribed drugs. There were some drugs that saved my life. Some you win some you loose.

I have learned not to trust doctors implicitly, I value their diagnostic skills, their tratment plans I do take with a large grain of salt, and do extensive resarch on benefit/detriment ratios. I take the diagnosis as a good staring point, if in doubt I would go for and pay for a second opinion. Insurance coverage be damned. If something would develop as really serious go for third opinion as well.

I am sure I consume some drugs that are in beef or other critters and lately in the unlabeled genetically modified crops. Like antibiotics that fed to animals or for example the corn sold today is vastly different thing from a hundred years ago.

Does High Fructose Corn Syrup count as a drug? That stuff iis in nearly every processed food, like Ketcsup, at the diner this morning just happened to look at the label.

As for the OP, just be sure you understand what is important and when.

To a good degree doctors rely on research by the various medical/drug industries for deciding on the value of medications treatment plans. Following are some observations regarding the validity of research results:

"...... favourite quotes by Drummond Rennie, at the time the Deputy Editor of the Journal of the American Medical Association.: ‘There seems to be no study too fragmented, no hypothesis too trivial, no literature citation too biased or too egotistical, no design too warped, no methodology too bungled, no presentation of results too inaccurate, too obscure, and too contradictory, no analysis too selfserving, no argument too circular, no conclusions too trifling or too unjustified, and no grammar and syntax too offensive for a paper to end up in print.’


A view supported from a slightly different angle by Dr Marcia Agnell, who was the editor of the New England Journal of Medicine for two decades. This was, and remains, the single most powerful and influential medical journal in the world. At least it is, when it comes to citations and impact factor:
“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.” Dr Marcia Agnell "



Dr. Malcolm Kendrick | Scottish doctor and author of 'The Great Cholesterol Con'

Edit add: IMHO a doctor's greatest value, as in all skilled craft, is in diagnostic skill.

 

[bld999]

And don't forget John Ioannidis:

"There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same question, and, importantly, the ratio of true to no relationships among the relationships probed in each scientific field. In this framework, a research finding is less likely to be true when the studies conducted in a field are smaller; when effect sizes are smaller; when there is a greater number and lesser preselection of tested relationships; where there is greater flexibility in designs, definitions, outcomes, and analytical modes; when there is greater financial and other interest and prejudice; and when more teams are involved in a scientific field in chase of statistical significance. Simulations show that for most study designs and settings, it is more likely for a research claim to be false than true. Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias. In this essay, I discuss the implications of these problems for the conduct and interpretation of research."


PLOS Medicine: Why Most Published Research Findings Are False

 

[ls99]

Funny, the Ioannidis observation, from my days of working with earth scientists 30 plus years ago, Seismologists, Geologists etc. the accurate mesure of current bias was paramount. There is a very current analogy in climate research, but let me not go off on a tangent.

 

[W2R]

I find your statement a little cryptic and probably not well thought out. That's ok. We all blurt out things that we haven't completely thought through. My food for thought on the subject:

1. The past does not predict the future when it comes to health. We all get old, unless we are unfortunate enough to die young. Many illnesses occur when your body gets older. Cardiovascular disease for one. Cancer. Type 2 diabetes. Hypertension. None of these are particularly common in 20 year olds. Many of these illnesses are manageable and with medications and some also with lifestyle changes.

2. Your statement suggests that you believe you know more about illness than your doctor. As a physician, I am still in awe of the knowledge and skills of us medical folks. I read more medical materials now, one month away from full retirement, than I did in med school. The knowledge base has increased exponentially. I am still studying to keep my board certification current, in case I want to volunteer or work part time if I get bored in retirement. I'm intrigued with what you think you know that your doctor doesn't.

3. If you don't trust your doctor, and you question his/her judgement, then you need a new doctor.

4. If you don't take prescribed meds without discussing and collaborating with your doctor, your doctor has every right to dismiss you from his/her practice for non-compliance. There is always room to discuss with your doctor why a med is prescribed, the risks and the benefits. But to refuse to take them without discussion doesn't make much sense.

I don't understand why you would do this to yourself. An example: If you have diabetes that cannot be controlled with diet you will die a lot earlier if you stop your meds, often within days to weeks. In 1993 I noticed my dad drinking a ton of liquid and going to the bathroom at a family gathering. I told him I was sure he had just developed diabetes. He went to the doctor within 24 hrs and started meds right away, as well as a low glycemic index diet. He died in 2009 with his blood glucose in perfect control, from other causes at age 80. We had a friend who developed Type 2 diabetes a year ago, in his early 40s. He did not follow the diet and probably did not take his meds regularly. He died 4 months later from complications of diabetes.

You may want to rethink your plan, IMO. Everyone has the right to do stupid things, but no one has protection from the consequences of their own stupidity. You and your loved ones would be the ones harmed by such a choice.

Wow, great post!! I would add to it but I think you have covered everything I would have said, and then some.

Basically, hiding our heads in the sand doesn't keep us from growing older and eventually dying. In order to achieve a good quality of life in old age we need to fight the health issues and negative effects of aging head on! IMO seeing a good and competent doctor regularly and following his instructions in every detail is a no-brainer as we get older.

 

[Rustic23]

If someone sees something on tv, and thinks, I think I'll tell the Doc I would like to try that, then I would agree. However, if I pay to go to my Doctor, he runs test, and then says, 'I think we should start your on XXX' I am going to take it. I may seek a second opinion, but I will take the drug while I do.

I pay people for their expertise, to then ignore it, or say 'I am smarter, and I don't agree' just doesn't make since to me.

 

[Chuckanut]

My favorite medication is gin-soaked raisins. But, it's not prescription.

How To Make Gin-Soaked Raisin Remedy? - The People's Pharmacy

 

[razztazz]

I pay people for their expertise, to then ignore it, or say 'I am smarter, and I don't agree' just doesn't make since to me.

I pay for expertise too but with important medical stuff I am paying for access. Doctor's "expertise" over the past 20 yrs has been shown to be poor at best. Mostly it's just watching TV and telling me what the man on the commercial says: New disease, everybody has it. You need drugs. And always the lastest ad campaign.

Ultimately I will be BLAMED for being soley responsible for my health. Why on earth would I simply bend over for just another businessman who happens to be a doctor?

Ten yrs ago when I stopped lowering cholesterol and stopped getting aerobic exercise and in general stopped going to the doctors every time I had chest pain and shortness of breath My health improved. My expenses dropped massively. I will never recover the lost quality of life which for some reason I am not supposed to blame on the doctors. If I am paying for expertise it's supposed to be HIS fault. That's what it means.

 

[donheff]

Basically, hiding our heads in the sand doesn't keep us from growing older and eventually dying. In order to achieve a good quality of life in old age we need to fight the health issues and negative effects of aging head on! IMO seeing a good and competent doctor regularly and following his instructions in every detail is a no-brainer as we get older.

I agree with this for the most part but, in practice, it can be difficult to decide on what constitutes a good and competent doctor. For example, many doctors are hell bent on statins and the approved clinical guidelines push them big time. I have decided for myself that I will not follow the guidelines which will likely push me onto statins based on age regardless of beneficial changes I have experienced due to life style changes. My current doctor actually agrees with me on this (and she shares the general approach that less is more) but I am not sure that I would reject a doctor who didn't as long as I found her to be knowledgeable and open to discussion. I currently have a monitor in my chest looking for for possible afib (my symptoms could be cause by intermittent afib and my brother definitely has it with similar symptoms). Based on my otherwise perfect heart health scores my current cardiologist would not yet put me on an anticoagulant if monitoring discloses that I have it but a few years down the line he would. Even on something that key, I plan to look very closely at the risks/benefits in discussion with the doc and make my own decision.

 

[Chuckanut]

It's important to be an active player in one's medical treatment.

 

[W2R]

I agree with this for the most part but, in practice, it can be difficult to decide on what constitutes a good and competent doctor.

Well, if you don't have a competent doctor, then I think it's crucial to make the effort to find one. IMO none of us are brain dead and we can and should be able to decide on criteria by which to decide whether or not a doctor is competent.

For me, an outstanding US medical education and association with a major hospital are bit pluses, as are strong recommendations from other doctors I respect, strong recommendations from friends whose judgement I believe to be excellent, and my own observations and opinions during my first few visits to a doctor (and can we communicate well?) are all helpful.

 

[Bestwifeever]

I had a physical two weeks ago. I brought up a couple of problems my doc has seen in patients hundreds of times in real life besides her education, continuing education, multiple board certifications, etc., etc., that I have seen only once in real life and a few dozen times on the Internet (I like to say I am webmd-certified). We discussed, she advised and prescribed, and problems are already resolved.

DH recently told his cardiologist he wanted to stop statins. Cardiologist explained in detail why he prescribed them but said do what you want, it's your body, we'll check in six months. DH changed urologists last summer when he was told to just live with getting up six times a night, recurring bladder infections, etc. New young urologist treated him surgically within a month. Completely changed DH's life.

I guess I don't understand wholesale doctor bashing. Go find a new doctor if you don't like or trust yours, or treat yourself if that's what you want to do, but no need to tar all the MDs out there with that brush.

 

[Chuckanut]

For me, an outstanding US medical education and association with a major hospital are bit pluses, as are strong recommendations from other doctors I respect,

I like recommendations from nurses. They see everything that goes on behind the curtain, and are less inclined to circle the wagons around a doctor or even a treatment of questionable value.

 

[imoldernu]

3. If you don't trust your doctor, and you question his/her judgement, then you need a new doctor.

+1

 

[haha]

Wow, great post!! I would add to it but I think you have covered everything I would have said, and then some.

Basically, hiding our heads in the sand doesn't keep us from growing older and eventually dying. In order to achieve a good quality of life in old age we need to fight the health issues and negative effects of aging head on! IMO seeing a good and competent doctor regularly and following his instructions in every detail is a no-brainer as we get older.

One thing I am not so sure about. Once my derm was bragging to me about how wonderful modern medicine is, and how we would all likely be dead if it weren't. I happen to come from a big family, and we always were close to the ancestors. Many of these people never once saw a doctor, unless perhaps for a fracture. If they survived childhood, made it past the post WW1 flu epidemic, didn't get shot in a war and didn't die in early adulthood from TB very many of them lived as long as people do today, and for all but a very short downtrend as they neared death they were healthy, fully competent adults. I can remember visiting "aunts and uncles" in their 90s. Of course women had the added risk of childbirth, which was meaningful but has little to do with pills.

So I think medicine is fine, but mostly oversold. I definitely would not want to get my old hip back, and that surgery is only 50-60 years old. And I sure am glad that when I needed surgery, anesthetic agents and expertise were highly developed. More than a few people had a leg amputated on a glass of whisky and "biting the bullet".

Ha

 

[Sunset]

I take the fifth. According to the labels it enhances the effect.

So funny.....