Bush vetoes SCHIP expansion

[chinaco]

...Those programs haven't exactly worked well for today's youth...

Yes... all the way up to the time they are in the emergency room or diagnosed with cancer. This type of service is not a point in time purchase. It is the right to services when needed. But you pay a little at a time to get it.

I could make the same argument for paying property taxes for schools and other infrastructure that I use little or none now days. Not to mention all of those state universities with the yearly subsidies. Why do I do it? I can promise you if it were not mandatory I would not do it. Of course, no one else would either. Then an education would only be available to people that are well off (supply and demand)! I think we understand that education is something that benefits all of us and society as a whole.

We all contribute to societal good, yet we do not necessarily consume the services rendered for our tax dollars.

By the way... I do not prefer a Medicare style national health plan. I would prefer a private industry solution with appropriate regulation.

 

[Letj]

With all due respect, everyone on this thread has missed the real reason for the veto. The Republican party is very friendly to big tobacco and the tobacco companies and their employees lobbyed endlessly to prevent this bill from passing because the means for paying for it would be taxes imposed on cigarettes. I am utterly shocked that the news media never picked up on that.

 

[travelover]

With all due respect, everyone on this thread has missed the real reason for the veto. The Republican party is very friendly to big tobacco and the tobacco companies and their employees lobbyed endlessly to prevent this bill from passing because the means for paying for it would be taxes imposed on cigarettes. I am utterly shocked that the news media never picked up on that.

I'm shocked! You mean politicians don't finance their campaigns with $10 contributions from loyal voters??

Seriously, though, if we don't get some campaign finance changes enacted, we are all going to be hurtin'.

 

[Wags]

Bush Vetoes Schip Expansion

With all due respect, everyone on this thread has missed the real reason for the veto. The Republican party is very friendly to big tobacco and the tobacco companies and their employees lobbyed endlessly to prevent this bill from passing because the means for paying for it would be taxes imposed on cigarettes. I am utterly shocked that the news media never picked up on that.

Yes, the problem is that Old George W and Congress (both Reps and Dems) are in the pockets of the lobbyist.

Like I stated before Old George W did not have to veto this bill. If he can sign BILLS in which billions of $$$ for the Iraq War are wasted then surely he can spend $35 billion to make sure our children are taken care of medically (for the next 5 years).

If OUR VETERANS and THEIR FAMILIES are having to SUE the VA/government to receive the proper medical care, compensation and ratings then it would stand to reason that the powers to be might not want to spend the needed capital to properly give the proper health care to our children.

Question - Which is more important - WAR or a Children's Health Care Program?

GOD BLESS

 

[travelover]

Yes, the problem is that Old George W and Congress (both Reps and Dems) are in the pockets of the lobbyist.

Like I stated before Old George W did not have to veto this bill. If he can sign BILLS in which billions of $$$ for the Iraq War are wasted then surely he can spend $35 billion to make sure our children are taken care of medically (for the next 5 years).

If OUR VETERANS and THEIR FAMILIES are having to SUE the VA/government to receive the proper medical care, compensation and ratings then it would stand to reason that the powers to be might not want to spend the needed capital to properly give the proper health care to our children.

Question - Which is more important - WAR or a Children's Health Care Program?

GOD BLESS

Wags, I think you are being a little too hard on Mr. Bush. He is probably not even aware of many of the issues you cite. You know full well that Mr. Cheney only provides information to the Executive Branch on a need to know basis.

 

[dwk]

Uh a heart attack and then find out the company you worked for did not pay their premium and went belly up and then the guy had a stroke and then he had 750,000 in bills and guess what THEY LOST THEIR HOUSE!!!!! Two months ago! The system is BROKEN!

The question is what are the requirements for enrollment for this program. Family has a minimal income, but owns $200,000+ home -- should the government step in.

Personally, I think the government needs to have a safety net for families that experience a catastrophic illness or trauma. I think a better plan would be to supplement health insurance preimiums .

dwk

 

[Rustic23]

Where do we draw the line? If you take the anecdotal experiences of individuals you can find thousands, and perhaps even millions of sad stories. How about the person that has no fire insurance, looses ever thing in a fire? Do we furnish fire insurance? How about an auto accident, and no or not enough insurance and laid up for life, looses their house because they can't work? Another federal program? The kid who drops out of high school and can't find work, oh yea we do that now.

My point is where does individual responsibility and federal responsibility i.e. the socialist state meet. My guess is that health care is much closer to most on this board than the other situations. There was little sympathy for a mortgage bail out.

So why 'Health care needs to be solved and those of you that are already paying 95% of the taxes will just have to pony up more for the other 75% of the population."

 

[ziggy29]

My point is where does individual responsibility and federal responsibility i.e. the socialist state meet. My guess is that health care is much closer to most on this board than the other situations. There was little sympathy for a mortgage bail out.

This is true, but people had to willingly get themselves into a nonsensical, dangerous loan product in order to be at risk with the subprime mortgage mess. So whatever one thinks about the health insurance situation, there is a difference in the two situations.

 

[Wags]

From recent news reports it now appears that SOME (not all) Republicans are attacking and have posted in the internet the address of a 12 year old boy who commented on Old George W's veto of the SCHIP expansion.

Result of these actions have resulted in harassment and death threats against the young boy and his family.

Let's hope that these types of childish and stupid retaliations stop/end before somone or somebody ends up dead or being seriously hurt. Think about how sad it would be if GOD forbid, someone hurt this young boy and his family.

GOD BLESS

 

[Rustic23]

Wags,
I don't know where you get your information, however, I googled 'Frost death threat', 'SCHIP death threat', 12 year old twelve year old death threat. I did not find any reference to any harassment or death threats. I did find several stories on the boy and his family. i.e. they make 45,000 a year, and
The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF.
And that the boy qualified under the previous SCHIPs and would have qualified if the democrats had not changed a thing.

 

[Wags]

Wags,
I don't know where you get your information, however, I googled 'Frost death threat', 'SCHIP death threat', 12 year old twelve year old death threat. I did not find any reference to any harassment or death threats. I did find several stories on the boy and his family. i.e. they make 45,000 a year, and
The current market value of their improved 3,040 SF home at 104 S Collington Ave is unknown but 113 S COLLINGTON AVE, also an end unit, sold for $485,000 this past March and it was only 2,060 SF.
And that the boy qualified under the previous SCHIPs and would have qualified if the democrats had not changed a thing.

Rustic 23,

I got my information from the Countdown with Keith Olbermann a video/show, which was aired on or about 10 October 2007. All you have to do is google "GOP attacks 12 year old" to find this video and some other sites that address this subject matter.

Before you make any assumptions on whether this family deserved SCHIP please read the complete story. Both the young boy and his sister where involved in a serious accident in which both needed extensive medical care and services for a number of months. I do not think that $45,000 a year would cover that bill and having to sale their house would only put the family out in the streets. Please think about it how would you response if that happen to your family.

Old George W could have signed the SCHIP expansion if he would have wanted to but he chose to VETO it.

Yes, this is the same Keith Olbermann who sometime in July 2007 did a commentary in which he gave Old George W some advice on the Iraq War. I beleive the advice was
"Then take it into your own hands, Mr. Bush. Go to Baghdad now and fulfull, finally, your military service obligations. Go there and fight, your war. Yourself."

GOD BLESS
GOD

 

[bright eyed]

i think it's curious that the general tone of our health care coverage discussions have tilted in favor of more universal coverage and this one seems to tilt stronger against it.

perhaps when it comes down to it we're not willing to foot the bill?

 

[Rustic23]

IMHO, the democrats should have looked a little deeper before they chose their spokesperson on SCHIPS.
Some facts about the Frost family that have been brought out:
Their employers do not offer health insurance….. He is self employed. He owns his own business, which occupies a $160,000 building showing him as the owner, and his wife as an employee. So he choose not to insure his family.
He lives in a 3,000 sq ft home, recently a 2,000 sq. ft home in the neighborhood sold for $500,000.
He and his wife spend $20,000 a year sending their kids to private schools, The Park School. From their web site:
Cost & Financial Assistance
Tuition for 2007-2008
Lower School $19,530
Middle School $19,530
Upper School $21,080
Additional charges may include books, athletic fees, trips, and graduation, depending on division.
It is not clear from what I have read if all four of their children go to this school.

In defense of the Frost, they say they are “still paying off the mortgage on the warehouse and home, and they receive financial aid for the school”

Still, IMHO, any welfare program that depends on income alone to justify payments regardless of other assets, should be questioned.

For my part, the government gets between 45 and 65% of ones income, when you add up SS, State Tax, user fees, federal tax, income tax, auto registrations, and who know what else.

The democrats bloated the SCHIPS bill for political reasons, the Frost’s son was covered in the existing program and would be covered today if Congress had not decided to play politics with the health care of children. Bush vetoed the bill, GOOD ON HIM! Now that both parties have made their points maybe they will quietly go back and pass what they should have in the first place. If they do, you can bet the publicity will not be so overblown!

 

[lets-retire]

The fact they own their business is huge. I know it is only anecdotal, but.... my in-laws have owned several businesses. Few of the businesses made over 5k or 10k per year on their tax forms. They were able to live the very high consumption life style and still manage to save a sizable amount of money. Only one of the businesses closed because it stopped making money. That was a video rental store that could not handle the competition from Blockbuster when it arrived to town. The rest of the businesses were sold for sizable profits. Since then, when I hear of a business owner only making 30k or 40k I always remember they are probably making much more than that.

 

[dumpster56]

Politics as usual from the politicians that are all full of you know what. Dems Repubs are all out of touch with the american people. That said the system of health care that we have right now is a tax on all of us. If you have good insurance you are who cares Ize got mineze attitude which is wrong. Because if you lose your insurance by losing a job or having the insurance taken away when the pension system you paid into for 30 years goes bust and you have a pre existing condition nobody wants to insure you.

The bush veto was grandstanding. The Children blah blah blah. Everyone needs health care not just the children.

 

[tomz]

IMHO, the democrats should have looked a little deeper before they chose their spokesperson on SCHIPS.
Some facts about the Frost family that have been brought out:

Unfortunately, your facts disagree with the true facts. The kids get scholarships to the private school. Their house was purchased for $55K in 1991. His business failed. They can't get private health insurance because of preexisting conditions. Etc., etc.

 

[Wags]

Unfortunately, your facts disagree with the true facts. The kids get scholarships to the private school. Their house was purchased for $55K in 1991. His business failed. They can't get private health insurance because of preexisting conditions. Etc., etc.

Earlier on this thread Rustic 23 questioned where I was getting my information from - I glad to see from your post that the real facts are available to those who wish to read them.

It is just to bad that some of the Republicans and RUSH think that it is appropriate/OK to attack a 12 year old and his family. I guess the compassionate conservative Republicans have forgotten all about family values, fair play, compassion and COMMON SENSE.

It is unfortunate that Old George W, the Republicans and the Democrats do not realize that we have a health insurance crisis in the U.S.A., in which health care, hospital care and health insurance are too expensive for the average American to afford.

Old George W could have signed the SCHIP expanison if he would have wanted to but instead he chose to VETO it. This is line with the recent news in which some of OUR VETERANS and THEIR FAMILIES are having to SUE the governement/VA to get the proper medical care, ratings and compensation that they deserve. And let's not forget the Walter Reed incident in which OUR TROOPS were warehoused in conditions that were not fit for dogs to live in.

It stands to reason that if the government can not properly care for and it can not provide the proper medical care for OUR TROOPS, OUR VETERANS AND THEIR FAMILIES, how can we expect it to take care of, or care about our children.

35 billion over 5 years is not to big of a pricetag to insure our children. Oh I forgot Old George W needs that money $$$$ to fund HIS IRAQ WAR.

GOD BLESS

 

[lets-retire]

This is line with the recent news in which some of OUR VETERANS and THEIR FAMILIES are having to SUE the governement/VA to get the proper medical care, ratings and compensation that they deserve. And let's not forget the Walter Reed incident in which OUR TROOPS were warehoused in conditions that were not fit for dogs to live in.

And these are the people we are saying will do a better job than the current system?

 

[Gumby]

..

 

[lets-retire]

I'm not supporting the well being of any insurance company. What I am against is the government take over of private industry based on faulty thinking.

Many have touted the idea that the government provides health care through providing insurance from private companies. That is one idea however what I believe will happen under those circumstances is many people will now feel that they are able to go to the doctor for any minor problem. I've seen many military people with several volumes to their medical records and their problem/injury was "medical is free/cheap so I go when there is any problem." That will increase the demand for doctors. This increase in demand will have the tendency to INCREASE costs. The insurance companies will be stuck they will have the option of increasing fees for the government or taking less profit. The other option is the government passing laws limiting how much a provider can charge for procedures, further decreasing the number of doctors available.

If the companies take less profit. The insurance companies will come to the point that the small profit to be made is not worth the effort to make it and go out of business. The government will only allow the fees to increase so much before they stop the increases, go broke, or raise taxes to an even higher level. With the exception of the last option the end result is the insurance companies going out of business.

The real question is how much are we willing to pay to have health care for all? I don't see how something can magically be cheaper by increasing the demand while not being able to increase the supply by a huge amount, and adding another layer of management to the system.

To me the only way is appears to even come close to being more...uh...streamlined is by having the government taking complete control. This option has not made anything less expensive every time it has been attempted in any country, so I don't see it working this time either.

The quality of care I have received form the government has not been all that good. Some people have had good luck, I'm not one of them. I was unable to have injuries I received while in the military repaired by the government. I was able to have them fixed once I got out and went to a private doctor. In fact the only time I was able to receive half-way decent care was when GI candy (800mg Motrin) became difficult to take due to acid reflux. As the doc said the two medicines I would have to take would be like adding water and gasoline to a fire. Only then did they actually attempt to treat some of the issues I had. I could write several pages detailing the incompetence of the government health care, but I won't.

 

[Zipper]

IMHO, the democrats should have looked a little deeper before they chose their spokesperson on SCHIPS.
Some facts about the Frost family that have been brought out:
Their employers do not offer health insurance….. He is self employed. He owns his own business, which occupies a $160,000 building showing him as the owner, and his wife as an employee. So he choose not to insure his family.
He lives in a 3,000 sq ft home, recently a 2,000 sq. ft home in the neighborhood sold for $500,000.
He and his wife spend $20,000 a year sending their kids to private schools, The Park School. From their web site:
Cost & Financial Assistance
Tuition for 2007-2008
Lower School $19,530
Middle School $19,530
Upper School $21,080
Additional charges may include books, athletic fees, trips, and graduation, depending on division.
It is not clear from what I have read if all four of their children go to this school.

In defense of the Frost, they say they are “still paying off the mortgage on the warehouse and home, and they receive financial aid for the school”

Still, IMHO, any welfare program that depends on income alone to justify payments regardless of other assets, should be questioned.

For my part, the government gets between 45 and 65% of ones income, when you add up SS, State Tax, user fees, federal tax, income tax, auto registrations, and who know what else.

The democrats bloated the SCHIPS bill for political reasons, the Frost’s son was covered in the existing program and would be covered today if Congress had not decided to play politics with the health care of children. Bush vetoed the bill, GOOD ON HIM! Now that both parties have made their points maybe they will quietly go back and pass what they should have in the first place. If they do, you can bet the publicity will not be so overblown!

Hey Rustic, maybe you should sign up as a medical insurance adjuster.

I bet you could make $$millions denying people their benefits?

 

[Gumby]

..

 

[lets-retire]

The people who are currently reluctant to go to a doctor (but should see one) because they don't want to pay the couple hundred dollars will no longer have that financial disincentive present. Additionally there will be more patients seeking preventative treatments and there should be a shift from people using the emergency room to people using other routine medical providers. While in these circumstances I would agree going to the doctor is a good idea, it will add to the work load of the doctors. The people who will not see any disincentive to go to the hospital and would otherwise stay home, because their illness is not serious enough to wait in the emergency, would start going to the doctor for the slightest problem.

I saw it a lot in the military when the government lowered the numbers of doctors available to family members. Many military members complained that their benefits were being lowered, because instead of having free health care on base for their family they had to go downtown and pay a co-pay. These co-pays weren't that bad, about $25.00, but it worked as a disincentive to go to the doctor and many stopped going to the doctor for the slightest problem. The family members do still have an option for space available treatment from the military hospitals/clinics, but as the technicians at my last base pointed out, you're much more likely to win the lottery than to get in on space available. To be fair I could get my family into the doctor in the military for typical medical issues, normally within two weeks. To actually have anything done they were referred to a civilian doctor, adding to the wait/suffer time. So by the time they were seen in the clinic (wait time about two weeks), and then an appointment made for the civilian side (wait time another 3-4 days) it had been the better part of a month from the initial complaint. There were several times when my wife had to call in sick and her boss wanted a doctors note, explaining that she was really sick for three days. It was a good thing she had insurance from her employment, because by the time she would have gotten in to the military doctor she was healthy or we would have had to pay for a private doctor out of pocket (the military wouldn't pay if they didn't refer you downtown).

 

[Gumby]

..

 

[lets-retire]

]

AH, common ground. I hate going to the doctor, also.