Cancer and diet

[RAE]

I know some folks on the forum share my interest in how diet affects health, and susceptibility to chronic diseases. I just came across these two articles that I found interesting. One deals with consumption of reheated cooking oil (in deep-fried foods), and the other deals with sugary drinks, especially those containing high-fructose corn syrup. Yes, these are mice studies, and I know some folks disregard such studies as not applicable to humans...........but I don't.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2019-03-mice-impact-reused-cooking-oil.html

From the article: "Thermally abused frying oil—cooking oil that has been repeatedly reheated to high temperatures—may act as a toxicological trigger that promotes tumor cell proliferation, metastases and changes in lipid metabolism."

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/03/190321141924.htm

From the article: ""These results suggest that when the animals have early stage of tumors in the intestines -- which can occur in many young adult humans by chance and without notice -- consuming even modest amounts of high-fructose corn syrup in liquid form can boost tumor growth and progression independently of obesity."

 

[Rianne]

I was DX twice with cancer. I searched and researched (almost full time) about cancer and the causes and treatments. IMHO, there is no one thing, behavior or food that starts the metastasis of cancer. We all have cancer cells. It's what triggers cancer cell growth that research and study try to solve. DH grandfather smoked for 65 years and died at 94. He was only sick the last few weeks of his life and died of pnuemonia that had nothing to do with smoking. He got the flu.

I've decided to live and eat and stop thinking about "could this trigger cancer?" I try to eat healthy. I do feel obesity is a huge health problem in the U.S. Obesity is a whole set of health problems.

 

[Tekward]

Thanks for sharing. I was surprised at the impact:


Twenty days after inoculation with the tumor cells, the primary tumors in the tibias of the mice that consumed the thermally abused oil had more than four times as much metastatic growth as the mice that consumed the fresh soybean oil.

 

[Midpack]

Interesting. I knew about sugary drinks, we rarely drink them, haven’t for many years.

I didn’t know about thermally abused oil, now that I understand what they mean. We don’t have a deep fat fryer so no exposure at home and we don’t eat fried food often - except I probably have french fries a couple times a month when I’m away from home. Guess I need to rethink french fries, maybe skip them from now on. Thanks.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We threw out all the chocolate and any desserts a few weeks ago to try to clean up our diets. The Blue Zones guidelines for living the longest are 95% plants, 5% animal based, so now we're working on less meat and dairy.

 

[REWahoo]

We threw out all the chocolate and any desserts a few weeks ago to try to clean up our diets. The Blue Zones guidelines for living the longest are 95% plants, 5% animal based, so now we're working on less meat and dairy.

That may not actually help you live longer but it will probably make it seem that way.

 

[audreyh1]

I rarely eat deep fried food and don’t have a deep fat fryer at home.

But I know people who developed cancer and didn’t eat deep fried food or sugary drinks either. So I don’t see how it can really make much difference.

 

[googily]

Eat well, stay fit, and die anyway. [emoji16]

I think it's reasonable to control weight, because, as said above, doing that can help with a cascading batch of issues as you age, but otherwise, it's a crap shoot, and science still basically doesn't know what it's talking about in this area.

I grew up right as the panic over saturated fat took hold, and spent much of my life avoiding butter, red meat, eggs, cheese, chicken skin, etc, and was 100 lbs overweight thanks to a mostly carb diet. Now I eat bacon, eggs, sausage, butter, full fat dressings, full fat yogurt, etc, and am 80 lbs lighter than I was 10 years ago, and have normal blood sugar, triglycerides, and HDL, which along with no family history of heart disease these days means that doctors don't care as much about total cholesterol or LDL. (It's true! Really!)

And my husband, who ate far more healthy than I ever did and who biked to and from work every day for the last six years of his life, died at 55 of cancer, that was already stage 4 when it was found.

Ditch the sugar drinks, including juices, absolutely, because it's such a simple way to cut calories, but beyond that, {shrug}.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

That may not actually help you live longer but it will probably make it seem that way.

If you can find any studies showing people on mostly plant based diets don't live significantly longer lives on average or have much lower rates of cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's, etc. I would be very interested in seeing them. But even the MD Anderson Cancer center site which seems pretty mainstream recommends no more than 18 ounces of cooked meat a week, which isn't much.

 

[razztazz]

If you can find any studies showing people on mostly plant based diets don't live significantly longer lives on average or have much lower rates of cancer, heart disease, Alzheimer's, etc. I would be very interested in seeing them. But even the MD Anderson Cancer center site which seems pretty mainstream recommends no more than 18 ounces of cooked meat a week, which isn't much.

Have they ever proven 18 1/2 ounces of meat per week causes cancer? How many times? One week? Two weeks? A whole lifetime of weeks? Like so many subject matter experts and studies have taught us over the years: They got nuthin'.

 

[braumeister]

As I've said many times, you have to choose what you read, decide what makes sense to you, and act accordingly. Don't let the "experts" decide for you.

This shows my personal bias:

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Have they ever proven 18 1/2 ounces of meat per week causes cancer? How many times? One week? Two weeks? A whole lifetime of weeks? Like so many subject matter experts and studies have taught us over the years: They got nuthin'.

I am not an expert on how MD Anderson does their research or what they look at, but they do seem to be a pretty main stream medical cancer expert center. I just started researching what people who live the longest eat and came across the Blue Zones site, and from there web sites like Harvard Health and the MD Anderson site and they were pretty much all saying the same thing. We eat a lot of ethnic peasant food anyway, with small amounts of meat, so it hasn't been a huge change for us. I was just surprised at how low the animal protein recommendations were.

 

[razztazz]

...and they were pretty much all saying the same thing.

It's called group think, being trendy, getting on the bandwagon, afraid of being Serpico'd, zeitgeist.. not knocking you or the current medical all-of-the-above, but it's definitely a fetish. Every single profession does it. None do not do it. I mean, really while diet does count for something, and yes, some things are bad for you, this Late 20th century mania of Diet Uber Alles, Diet as the cause of and cure for all our problems is more than silly. Especially the sort of obscure and mystic hatred of meat...?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

...and they were pretty much all saying the same thing.

It's called group think, being trendy, getting on the bandwagon, afraid of being Serpico'd, zeitgeist.. not knocking you or the current medical all-of-the-above, but it's definitely a fetish. Every single profession does it. None do not do it. I mean, really while diet does count for something, and yes, some things are bad for you, this Late 20th century mania of Diet Uber Alles, Diet as the cause of and cure for all our problems is more than silly. Especially the sort of obscure and mystic hatred of meat...?

I'm just looking at the recommendations based actual research. In all the Blue Zone areas where people live the longest they all eat plant based diets. In the U.S. the Blue Zone area is Loma Linda, and they have much lower rates of chronic diseases and live significantly longer than other Californians. I don't hate meat, but we're okay cutting back if it decreases our cancer and other chronic disease risk and adds some years to our lives.

 

[Bir48die]

Outside of eating charred red meat I don’t see a correlation much if you have a decently balanced diet.

 

[WestUniversity]

When I took statistics in college my professors always pounded us about understanding and recognizing the differences between “causation” and “correlation”.

Too often when it comes to interpreting statistical data people are citing a correlation while implying, or even incorrectly stating, that there is causation. This seems to happen all too often in medicine...

 

[RAE]

I didn’t know about thermally abused oil, now that I understand what they mean. We don’t have a deep fat fryer so no exposure at home and we don’t eat fried food often - except I probably have french fries a couple times a month when I’m away from home. Guess I need to rethink french fries, maybe skip them from now on. Thanks.

A lot of people have not heard about the health risks from consuming industrial seed oils, but there is a lot of information online about them. Thermally-abused seed oils are the most dangerous, but I personally will not consume any of the seed oils sold in jugs at the grocery store (corn oil, vegetable oil, safflower oil, canola oil, etc), whether they are heated during cooking or not.

Here is one article about why they are dangerous to consume:

https://chriskresser.com/how-industrial-seed-oils-are-making-us-sick/

Just reading about how this stuff is made turns my stomach.

 

[FlaGator]

Eat well, stay fit, and die anyway. [emoji16]

.............

And my husband, who ate far more healthy than I ever did and who biked to and from work every day for the last six years of his life, died at 55 of cancer, that was already stage 4 when it was found.

Ditch the sugar drinks, including juices, absolutely, because it's such a simple way to cut calories, but beyond that, {shrug}.

+1, or 2 or 3

Late DW was very conscious of her diet, personal and environmental hygiene and still ended up with a metastatic cancer that killed her. Maternal grandfather was a heavy smoker, died at 62. His daughter (my mother) has smoked for 60+ years, is now 80+ and living independently.

Seems random to me, but just a sample of one family

 

[Teacher Terry]

Fla, I agree from my observations it’s random.

 

[joeea]

A lot of people have not heard about the health risks from consuming industrial seed oils, but there is a lot of information online about them. Thermally-abused seed oils are the most dangerous, but I personally will not consume any of the seed oils sold in jugs at the grocery store (corn oil, vegetable oil, safflower oil, canola oil, etc), whether they are heated during cooking or not.

Here is one article about why they are dangerous to consume:

https://chriskresser.com/how-industrial-seed-oils-are-making-us-sick/

Just reading about how this stuff is made turns my stomach.

He's a licensed acupuncturist and a Functional Medicine practitioner, so you know he quacks loudly.

 

[MichaelB]

So much academic study on nutricion is funded by undisclosed parties with commercial interests, and this goes back decades. How do we choose what sources to believe?

 

[RAE]

He's a licensed acupuncturist and a Functional Medicine practitioner, so you know he quacks loudly.

Yes, those are his credentials, plus about 2 decades worth of research on nutrition and health. Most medical doctors have basically zero background on nutrition and health. Who do you get your advice on nutrition from?

By the way, many of the research papers cited by Chris Kresser (and others who write about the dangers of these industrial seed oils) were published in well-respected medical journals. If more doctors would actually read some of these papers, they might be more knowledgeable about the subject.

 

[Beststash]

How do we choose what sources to believe?

If the choice is between scientific study vs anecdotal evidence, I choose science. However, I think in most cases we believe what we want to hear.

 

[RAE]

So much academic study on nutricion is funded by undisclosed parties with commercial interests, and this goes back decades. How do we choose what sources to believe?

If you can determine who funded the study, that is a good place to start. There is tremendous profit to be made by selling the industrial seed oils (jug oils), because they are dirt cheap to produce. Same thing with high-fructose corn syrup. It's a pretty good bet that any "studies" that found no harm from consuming this junk were funded (in one way or another) by the industries that produce the stuff.

 

[joeea]

Yes, those are his credentials, plus about 2 decades worth of research on nutrition and health. Most medical doctors have basically zero background on nutrition and health. Who do you get your advice on nutrition from?

Random, uncredentialed internet people who claim decades of "research", where else?

If more doctors would actually read some of these papers, they might be more knowledgeable about the subject.

Yeah, lots of ignorant doctors out there. You can't trust them. Better to consult acupuncturists!