Ebola in Texas

[cantlogin]

Ah, I see. Well, I hope that all works out for you. I have better things to do with my time than slobber over the media whore du jour who may actually be helping introduce the next plague into the US.

Oh, and while you were doing the little-girl-hiding-under-the-bed routine, our civil rights were taken away. You will not be getting them back short of an armed revolution in this country. Do not hold your breath.

How I have defended your civil rights isn't really relevant to the discussion of the heroics of Kaci Hickox, but your questions prompt me to wonder what action you have taken to defend those same rights.

Suggesting that Kaci could "actually be helping introduce the next plague into the US." is a pronouncement of an opinion based based on fallacy.

 

[imoldernu]

I feel so much safer, knowing our experts here are bringing the situation under control.

 

[brewer12345]

Suggesting that Kaci could "actually be helping introduce the next plague into the US." is a pronouncement of an opinion based based on fallacy.

You can come out and call me an ignorant redneck. I won't mind.

As for civil rights, you misunderstand me. We live in something akin to the late Roman Empire. No individual can stop the tragedy of the commons destruction of civil rights. Either the populace at large does so (highly unlikely unless they are starving), or nobody does. Suggesting that some bit of fluff media whore is doing something about it is clueless at best, insulting to the civil rights leaders of the past at worst.

 

[cantlogin]

You can come out and call me an ignorant redneck. I won't mind.

As for civil rights, you misunderstand me. We live in something akin to the late Roman Empire. No individual can stop the tragedy of the commons destruction of civil rights. Either the populace at large does so (highly unlikely unless they are starving), or nobody does. Suggesting that some bit of fluff media whore is doing something about it is clueless at best, insulting to the civil rights leaders of the past at worst.

I already know that you are anything but ignorant. You are educated and clever. That you wouldn't be ashamed of being ignorant is, in itself, shameful though.

If you are convinced that we should simply surrender and abdicate our rights, and that no action of an individual can be productive. What was the purpose of this challenge "So where the hell were you defending constitutional freedoms over the last 13 years?"?

 

[brewer12345]

I already know that you are anything but ignorant. You are educated and clever. That you wouldn't be ashamed of being ignorant is, in itself, shameful though.

If you are convinced that we should simply surrender and abdicate our rights, and that no action of an individual can be productive. What was the purpose of this challenge "So where the hell were you defending constitutional freedoms over the last 13 years?"?

We should all be willing to admit we are ignorant. I don't know jack about particle physics, psychiatry (shudder), or any number of subjects. Happy to admit it. Pretty sad if you think you are not ignorant.

You are the one that started jumping up and down shouting about defending civil liberties. I just pointed out that the horse has left the barn, been ridden in the gay rodeo, petted by thousands of school children, molested by gypsies, turned into glue, and the paper it was spread on has been in the landfill for some time.

 

[Brat]

Hugh

 

[Gumby]

I think that we all could benefit by taking it down a notch. Bashing each other won't solve anyone's problem, be it medical or legal.

 

[cantlogin]

We should all be willing to admit we are ignorant. I don't know jack about particle physics, psychiatry (shudder), or any number of subjects. Happy to admit it. Pretty sad if you think you are not ignorant.

You are the one that started jumping up and down shouting about defending civil liberties. I just pointed out that the horse has left the barn, been ridden in the gay rodeo, petted by thousands of school children, molested by gypsies, turned into glue, and the paper it was spread on has been in the landfill for some time.

Being willing to admit my ignorance is one thing.
Wearing the badge of "Ignorant Redneck" proudly, is another.

Maybe all of the things you're complaining about would be less of a problem if ignorance was less celebrated than it is.

 

[brewer12345]

Being willing to admit my ignorance is one thing.
Wearing the badge of "Ignorant Redneck" proudly, is another.

Maybe all of the things you're complaining about would be less of a problem if ignorance was less celebrated than it is.

Well, I can proudly state that I am not a member of the media whore fan club.

Have a nice life. I hope your pandemic goes really well.

 

[Sarah in SC]

Easy y'all.
Like Gumby said, there is lots to be gained by civil discourse, and I have certainly learned a lot and seen some good links on this thread so far, that have enlarged my knowledge immensely.
Let's try to keep it going a bit longer by keeping in the bounds.


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[FireBug]

FEAR!!!! It’s good, it’s fun and it should be encouraged. Tonight Only. Other than Halloween, not so much
I agree, we can all take it down a notch. But let me give you my take.
I grew up in SF in the 80’s. It was ground zero for fear and hysteria. Couldn’t be anywhere near a gay person. Citizens were afraid to leave the house and go to work. People were dying left and right by the hundreds. This Ebola has nothing on that, and I mean nothing. Why do I bring it up? Because why can’t we learn. Why can’t we understand that fear drives us more than common sense and far more than facts. This isn’t a buffet of information. We can’t go down the line and say, “Hmm, I like that fact, I’ll believe it. Oh, there’s one that makes sense, I’ll take that as well. Oops, almost put that stupid fact on my plate. That one goes against my personal belief system.” Listen, I get it. Someday, this planet could be completely wiped out by some massive virus. I truly put that in the realm of possibility. But not one single person has contracted the virus in the US and has died. Not a one. On the matter of being safe rather than sorry, I too am not against that. But we have to realize that the scope of this problem, the essence of its resolution, lies with the medical profession. Not with the police, not with our government, not with us. One poster put it, “…self-appointed experts”. I would tend to take a different viewpoint. A quick review of the medical specialties researching and working on this problem reads like a medical dictionary. If these are self-appointed specialists, count me in. I realize that it could, it might, and is likely to get worse before it gets better. But that in my opinion, that should not be taken as “I told you so”. I started this rant out by saying why can’t we learn. The answer is still not clear. We obviously didn’t learn from:
· Swine Flu (H1N1)
· Lead paint in Toys
· Bird Flu (H5N1)
· SARS
· Anthrax
· Cell phone Emissions
· Africanized Bees
· MRSA
· Mad Cow Disease
· Ricin
· And of course, AIDS

 

[brewer12345]

Well, call me a slack-jawed yokel, but I actually do have to worry about Africanized bees. That threat is up close and personal.

Since I no longer spend much time in major cities, the rest of the threats you list worry me less than they did. I still don't plan on getting rid of my disaster supplies and small stock of buckshot in a selection of gauges. You first.

When do you plan on volunteering for the ebola quarantine hotel, since you seem convinced the risk is nil?

 

[FireBug]

Wow....please tell me where I said it was NIL.

 

[brewer12345]

Wow....please tell me where I said it was NIL.

So perhaps there is some risk in this disease, just maybe? Funny...

 

[TromboneAl]

I want the Ebola-phobia to ramp up a bit. When SARS-phobia was in full swing, every bathroom on my bike routes had soap, water, and running water.

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[M Paquette]

I want the Ebola-phobia to ramp up a bit. When SARS-phobia was in full swing, every bathroom on my bike routes had soap, water, and running water.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

I remember seeing these in some rural settings.

I actually thought the portable sink setups next to the porta-potties was a really nice touch. It was probably a maintenance headache, though, as someone would have to refill the clean water tanks periodically. That's another tank truck and driver rumbling across the countryside.

We just have our little alcohol hand sanitizer bottles (for bacteria and lipid envelope virii like flu) and hand wipes (some capsid virii like norovirus, but had washing is more effective). Cheapskate hint: The huge hand sanitizer dispensers cost maybe twice what the little 1-2 ounce bottles cost, and can be used to refill the little bottles dozens of times.

 

[samclem]

Here's how Canada and Australia are handling things. Foreigners--stay out. Citizens: Okay.

Canada bans travelers from Ebola hot spots - CNN.com

(CNN) -- Canada will stop processing visa applications from foreign nationals who have visited West African nations with large outbreaks of the Ebola virus, Citizenship and Immigration Minister Chris Alexander said Friday.
Applications will be returned to people from Ebola hot spots who have already applied for visas, officials said in a press release.


The changes do not affect Canadians currently in West Africa, the press release said. Health care workers in West Africa will be permitted to travel back to Canada.


The action is similar to that taken by Australia several days ago.

And Australia:

(CNN) -- In the fight against Ebola, Australia has said: No thanks.


Immigration Minister Scott Morrison announced "strong controls" on arrivals from West African countries affected by cases of the deadly disease.
Telling Australia's parliament during a question time session Monday that his ministry was currently "not processing any application from these (Ebola) affected countries," he said that the government was also suspending its humanitarian program.


He added that holders of permanent Australian visas based in these countries would be subject to a mandatory, three-week quarantine process prior to their departure. Visitors approved to travel to Australia will also face further screening and followup checks upon arrival.

 

[rodi]

Do United States-ians need a visa to visit Canada? I don't recall every having to show my license pre-9/11 and passport post 9/11... no visa application. And I lived in Bellingham for several years - so was going into Vancouver fairly regularly for culture and nightlife.

 

[EastWest Gal]

You need a passport. No visa.


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[Fermion]

Well so much for the experts in health knowing everything there is to know about Ebola:

U.S. scientists say uncertainties loom about Ebola's transmission, other key facts


"But penetration through intact skin has not been definitively ruled out, said hemorrhagic-fever expert Thomas Ksiarek of the University of Texas Medical Branch (UTMB), who co-led a session on Ebola's transmission routes."

"Also unknown is whether the time between exposure to Ebola and the appearance of symptoms depends on which bodily fluids someone contacted. If it does, then someone exposed through, say, saliva rather than blood might incubate the virus for longer than the 21 days officials have repeatedly said is the outer limit of the incubation period.
That was the longest incubation time during the 1976 Ebola outbreak, said Dr. C.J. Peters, a field virologist at UTMB. But "I would guess that 5 percent of people" can transmit the virus after incubating it for more than three weeks, said Peters, whose battle against the Ebola outbreak in a monkey colony in Virginia was recounted in Richard Preston's 1994 book "The Hot Zone."

 

[eytonxav]

Well so much for the experts in health knowing everything there is to know about Ebola:

U.S. scientists say uncertainties loom about Ebola's transmission, other key facts


"But penetration through intact skin has not been definitively ruled out, said hemorrhagic-fever expert Thomas Ksiarek of the University of Texas Medical Branch (UTMB), who co-led a session on Ebola's transmission routes."

I was not aware that previous statements had been made by health experts that ruled out any such contact with intact skin. After all, skin does have pores. I have always heard any exposed skin contact with bodily fluids was the vehicle for transmission.

 

[TromboneAl]

The swine flu was serious. You'd get a fever, a sore throat, and an uncontrollable desire to make love in the mud.

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[imoldernu]

Three days later, Ebola has mostly disappeared from the American scene.

Doing a control F search on the Google news website there were three results... two of which related to a panic on a nude beach. The Drudge headlines showed no mention of Ebola. Alternet had two mentions, both having only to do with the economy. Trending Fox News featured something about Jesse Duggar and BBC featured the Victoria's Secret story....

How soon we forget.

 

[sengsational]

So was it "we dodged a bullet" or "much ado about nothing"?

 

[MooreBonds]

So was it "we dodged a bullet" or "much ado about nothing"?

IMO, there still doesn't seem to be a precise knowledge of its transmission. People kept parroting the line of "you can only catch it from bodily fluids" to suggest that they would have to have an open wound that's dripping blood right down on you to catch it...but then they seemed to gradually admit that other forms of transmission were feasible (sneezing in the immediate vicinity, the virus being on a surface for several hours, etc.)

Because of this, and because of the severe side effects/possible mortality rates and intense treatment and isolation requirements, I'd say that it's more of the former than the latter.

Probably the only thing that really saved us is that more people in the Ebola-stricken areas didn't have enough money to buy a plane ticket to a developed nation to try and get 1st world treatment. If that had happened - it would have been much more of a challenge, with possibly very bad outcomes if it spread. And given that it seemed most 1st world nations except the US had travel bans in place, you can guess where the few places were that they would have been able to go to.

And I believe that they only had the temperature monitoring stations in what, 6 airports? So all someone would have to do is pick a flight route that enters the US in an airport other than one of those 6.

And even if the 6 US monitoring airports had received, say, just 10 people with high fevers and advanced stages of Ebola, what would they have done - corralled them into an airport lounge to sit and wait to be flown back to where they came from? Or would they have sent them to the nearest US hospital for treatment?

AFAIK, no Ebola airline passengers were identified as having elevated temperatures in the US airports that later tested positive for Ebola - but what was the game plan if they did find people that tested positive? And what if those numbered in the dozens?