Heartline Study with Apple Watch

[athena53]

Those of you less paranoid than I am about sharing health data, please skip this thread!

I got a link to this study from a CVS e-mail. Here's the general link.
https://www.heartline.com/

Will try to be brief. They're looking for people 65+ to record health data, either through an app or an Apple watch (must have iPhone 6 or higher), for 2 years and a voluntary 3rd year. They're separating those with an a-fib diagnosis from those without the diagnosis. You will be randomly assigned to the app group or the Apple Watch group. They have enough participants who have their own Apple Watch so you must either get one on a free loan or buy one at a discount. As I had hoped, I was added to the "Use the Apple Watch" group and it's a screaming deal- I used a code they gave me at Best Buy and just ordered a $400 Apple Watch for $80.

You need to give them access to your Medicare claims info, which may be a turnoff for some. I already have a FitBit Luxe which I'll probably resell on e-Bay when I get this up and running- I have leaky heart valves (being monitored by a cardiologist I trust) and have found it reassuring to monitor heartbeat, recovery time after reaching peak heart rates, etc. between doctor visits so I know things are stable.

I love new electronic toys. I'm excited!

 

[disneysteve]

I’ve had a number of patients come to urgent care because their watch said they were in a fib. Not a single one of them actually was.

These things are still expensive gimmicks.

 

[athena53]

Thanks for the warning. The FitBit has been pretty consistent so I'd be suspicious of any reports of sudden a fib. Similarly, the FitBit sometimes shows a few minutes of peak heart rate activity around midnight. I am ALWAYS asleep at midnight. I ignore that.

 

[Sunset]

I’ve had a number of patients come to urgent care because their watch said they were in a fib. Not a single one of them actually was.

These things are still expensive gimmicks.

What is your thoughts on the KardiaMobile. Have you have folks come in with false readings as well ?

 

[disneysteve]

What is your thoughts on the KardiaMobile. Have you have folks come in with false readings as well ?

I’m not familiar with them. I’m pretty sure the people I’ve seen had Apple watches though honestly I’m not familiar enough with them to recognize the different models or brands.

 

[fosterscik]

Very interesting. Unfortunately I've just ordered a new ultra model so the series 7 discount is much less interesting. I find it bizarre that they say the study is full if you own your own watch, but they'll (mostly) fund watch purchases for new apple-watch users. Perhaps they think that non-watch users are less healthy? The ultra I've ordered will be my first ever smart watch.

 

[PatrickA5]

Leaves me out as I have a Apple Watch 5 and am not (quite) 65. Otherwise, I'd do it.

I've never had an A-Fib reading in the 3 years I've worn my watch every day.

I do check my daily record of my heart rates every night - just for the fun of it. My average day (no exercise) is 48 - 100. It can quickly jump to 150-160 if I'm doing anything strenuous. Love my Apple watch. My Cardiologist is also a big fan.

 

[athena53]

Very interesting. Unfortunately I've just ordered a new ultra model so the series 7 discount is much less interesting. I find it bizarre that they say the study is full if you own your own watch, but they'll (mostly) fund watch purchases for new apple-watch users. Perhaps they think that non-watch users are less healthy?

Yeah, I don't quite get that either. It might be a good way for people to upgrade from an existing Apple Watch, though. You just give it away or sell it and start using the new one.

It can quickly jump to 150-160 if I'm doing anything strenuous. Love my Apple watch. My Cardiologist is also a big fan.

Thanks- that's good to know! I'm glad ot have almost a year's experience with the FitBit so any alarming results that I get in the first week with the Apple Watch can be viewed with healthy skepticism.

 

[braumeister]

I find it bizarre that they say the study is full if you own your own watch, but they'll (mostly) fund watch purchases for new apple-watch users. Perhaps they think that non-watch users are less healthy?

It's the stated purpose of the study:

The Heartline Study is interested in learning about the health outcomes of people who don’t own an Apple Watch, and may use it for the first time for the study.

(my bold)

 

[ncbill]

I’ve had a number of patients come to urgent care because their watch said they were in a fib. Not a single one of them actually was.

These things are still expensive gimmicks.

What's your opinion of the more expensive version of KardiaMobile devices (KardiaMobile 6L?)

 

[Sarah S]

Disneysteve did you look at the tracings the watch thought were a fib? Just curious because although I have never had a fib or a false report I occasionally do a tracing on my watch for fun and they seem decent quality to look at for a rhythm strip. It just tells me no a fib and comments when my heart rate is high. I can clearly see the occasional pvc and otherwise discern p waves though

 

[braumeister]

Here's a study from 2020:
Cleveland Clinic Studies Accuracy of Apple Watch 4 for Atrial Fibrillation Detection

Cleveland Clinic researchers have found that the Apple Watch 4 (AW4) identified only 41% of atrial fibrillation (AFib) instances when viewing the watch display alone. In addition to the watch display, the AW4 provides a downloadable PDF to detect AFib, which detected AFib – a type of irregular heartbeat – 98% of the time.

That was for the Apple Watch 4 which was released in 2018, and they are continuously improving the algorithms so I'm sure it is much improved by now.

 

[Alan]

I had paroxysmal Afib for a number of years and could never get it recorded at the hospital, even wearing hospital monitors for 24 and 48 hours. However I was symptomatic and knew when I was in Afib because it was accompanied by waves of dizziness and rarely lasted more than a couple of hours. If I was at home when an episode hit I would record it on my Kardia device and on visits to the cardio unit would bring in the traces for their review. They were confident enough with the accuracy of the traces to offer me a cardio ablation which I had exactly 4 years ago. The morning I went in for the procedure I had an Afib episode and the electrophysiologist said that it was good to actually see it for the first time on their equipment. While sitting there being “processed” he asked to see more traces on my phone and was suitably impressed even though it is a very simple device using only the fingers on each hand.

 

[bmcgonig]

I’ve had a number of patients come to urgent care because their watch said they were in a fib. Not a single one of them actually was.

These things are still expensive gimmicks.

I had AFib for years and recently had an ablation. The 30second EKG strips from my Apple Watch were enough for both the cardiologist and the EP to believe that I had Afib. Naturally he wasn’t just relying on the watch saying that I was in AFib, rather he read the full EKGs that were saved.

In all the times that the watch said I was in AFib , I actually was. I can read the EKG myself to verify that. With the Kardia you can send the file to them and for $20 or so you get a quick read from a cardiologist.

So just so you know it might be worthwhile for your docs to get the EKG record from the phone so that you can look at it yourself. I’m assuming that just because they’re not in AFib when you see them that you don’t discount that they could have been.

 

[becca]

DH had paroxysmal afib and recently had an ablation (hopefully successful). His apple watch showed he was in afib with every episode he had...it was very accurate. I just upgraded to the Apple Watch series 8 (from the 3).

 

[athena53]

Thanks for the votes for the iPhone. My youngest brother (age 62) does have a-fib and I remember Mom used to need an ablation every once in awhile (not sure if they do it for conditions other than a-fib). As I noted, I have an idea what my heart rate patterns are and if the watch suddenly starts showing stuff the FitBit didn't, I'll be suspicious.

The FitBit's quirk is that it shows a heart rate spike at midnight- every night while I'm asleep. The weird thing is it doesn't show up in the chart till later in the day. It's 6:30 AM here and it's not on last night's chart- it will undoubtedly show up later today.

As my old boss used to say, consistency is better than accuracy.

 

[kwright396]

Thanks for the info Athena53. Signed up and received my Apple watch yesterday from Best Buy. Looking forward to participating in the study.

 

[athena53]

Thanks for the info Athena53. Signed up and received my Apple watch yesterday from Best Buy. Looking forward to participating in the study.

Good- I'm glad you got in the group that got the watch! I had to make a fast trip to the Apple Store yesterday because the charger they supplied had a USB-C output and it wasn't compatible with the pile of cords I have here, but it's up and running now.

 

[Exchme]

What is your thoughts on the KardiaMobile. Have you have folks come in with false readings as well ?

I got a KardiaMobile device about a year ago and it does a real, medical grade, 6 lead or 2 lead EKG, either of which is fine for spotting AFIB. They offer upsell services to have their own cardiologist review for other anomalies. My cardiologist looked through my data and it confirmed in his mind that I was in AFIB all the time. Of course, he still did his own tests.

After I had ablation surgery to fix the AFIB, my cardiologist recommended I get an Apple Watch, and, contradicting a previous comment on this thread, my cardiologist said they were proven to be 94% accurate in spotting AFIB. Since AFIB comes and goes for many people, the observation that folks see AFIB on the watch and don't see it in the office may not mean much.

 

[zinger1457]

Thanks for the tip, was considering getting an Apple Watch then remembered this thread. Signed up yesterday afternoon and an hour later picked up the watch at BestBuy. There were two purchase options, the Series 8 41mm for $49 and the Series 8 45mm for $79, got the 45mm. You do pay tax based on the full retail amount. Not too worried about sharing my health data, not much to share really, just annual checkups and blood test for as far back as I can remember except for a couple minor issues.