Now diet drinks cause strokes and dementia

If scientists don't like the bad rapp and disrespect they get from these studies, maybe they should stop doing bad science? ...

But is this study "bad science"? I tend to discount a lot of studies, but this one was striking - they saw 3x increase in strokes and dementia (not the 33% increase OP stated, which would be 1.33x). Sure, it doesn't make a cause-effect connection, but I'm not going to ignore a 3x affect either. And this is on one diet soda a day, I know people who drink far more than that.

I think this connection deserves added study. But that is hard to do with conditions that take decades to show.


I never liked the taste of diet sodas, and regular sodas are way, way too sweet. So I enjoy sparkling water, sometimes with a splash of fruit juice like pomegranate. Very satisfying. Otherwise, sure, water.

I think you can wean yourself off of sweet tasting drinks. It's gotta be better for you.

+1 No cream/sugar in my coffee, and if I want a sparkly beverage that isn't beer or champagne, I choose soda water, maybe with a little lemon or lime or a squirt of some sort of juice, or the Le Croix brand, with flavoring, but no sweetener.

-ERD50
 
So is it the soda that turns your brain to mush, or the artificial sweetener?


But is this study "bad science"? I tend to discount a lot of studies, but this one was striking - they saw 3x increase in strokes and dementia (not the 33% increase OP stated, which would be 1.33x). Sure, it doesn't make a cause-effect connection, but I'm not going to ignore a 3x affect either. And this is on one diet soda a day, I know people who drink far more than that.

I think this connection deserves added study. But that is hard to do with conditions that take decades to show.




+1 No cream/sugar in my coffee, and if I want a sparkly beverage that isn't beer or champagne, I choose soda water, maybe with a little lemon or lime or a squirt of some sort of juice, or the Le Croix brand, with flavoring, but no sweetener.

-ERD50
 
But is this study "bad science"? I tend to discount a lot of studies, but this one was striking - they saw 3x increase in strokes and dementia (not the 33% increase OP stated, which would be 1.33x). Sure, it doesn't make a cause-effect connection, but I'm not going to ignore a 3x affect either. And this is on one diet soda a day, I know people who drink far more than that.

I think this connection deserves added study. But that is hard to do with c, or the Le Croix brand, with flavoring, but no sweetener.

-ERD50
wow good catch. 3x is alarming. I don't know how I read a 1/3 increase into that. Of course that seems strange as well. How did such a massive effect go unnoticed?
 
I'm glad I'm a water drinker. We don't buy soda. We tend to have fruit juice from the actual fruit. (Buy oranges, and squeeze to make OJ.) The kids are also water drinkers. They bring water bottles (reusable ones) to school and to sports.
I've never felt comfortable with the artificial sweetners or HFCS...

That said - don't take away my coffee!!!!!
 
Drink beer instead!
The only time I drink diet anything it's mixed with Jack Daniel's. That probably lessens the risk of dementia.
 
Oh goody! Latest study shows sugar isn't that bad after all


(Doesn't do sugar or artificial sweeteners)

Actually, they found other problems with the sugar sodas, but the stroke/dementia link was not there, or not so strong.

Drink beer instead!

OK! :)

wow good catch. 3x is alarming. I don't know how I read a 1/3 increase into that. ....

Umm, maybe the effects of Splenda? :hide:

-ERD50
 
My company provides free soda, and I used to drink one diet Dr. Pepper a day as an afternoon treat. Then one day I thought, "Why do I consider pouring this can of manufactured chemicals into my body to be a "treat"? Manufactured chemicals can be useful as medicine, but as a treat? So no more, I'll just have some tea, thank you.
 
But is this study "bad science"? I tend to discount a lot of studies, but this one was striking - they saw 3x increase in strokes and dementia (not the 33% increase OP stated, which would be 1.33x). Sure, it doesn't make a cause-effect connection, but I'm not going to ignore a 3x affect either. And this is on one diet soda a day, I know people who drink far more than that.

I think this connection deserves added study. But that is hard to do with conditions that take decades to show.




+1 No cream/sugar in my coffee, and if I want a sparkly beverage that isn't beer or champagne, I choose soda water, maybe with a little lemon or lime or a squirt of some sort of juice, or the Le Croix brand, with flavoring, but no sweetener.

-ERD50
Is this study bad science? The population was limited to one town, based on a a previous study done 10 years prior about soda consumption, at that time, and then 10 years later followed up for who had strokes and did not follow soda consumption or diet over the next 10 years. Furthermore it was 3 percent of the participants who had a stroke or 128 of the slightly more than 4,000 people. How you make scientific assumptions over cause in a small population scientifically of 128 people is very questionable. Here are what some of some food scientists are saying about the “study’, which I would call click bait at it’s finest for the media industry.

What the Experts Say About Flawed Diet Soda and Stroke Study
 
All I know is that I bought the "reduce your fat intake" hook, line and sinker. Latest study about that hogwash was the final straw. Now, DW and I am on a low carb diet with amazing results (losing about 1.5 lbs a week!).

I no longer fear eggs, butter, red meat and cream. Goodbye "white water" (1% milk), hello the real stuff! I eat until I am gently full, and am rarely hungry between meals.

Unrelated, I gave up the 20-32 oz. a day diet drink habit about 8 months ago (unrelated to low carb diet). Have maybe had one diet soda a month since. Really don't miss it, except the caffeine.
 
Is this study bad science? The population was limited to one town, based on a a previous study done 10 years prior about soda consumption, at that time, and then 10 years later followed up for who had strokes and did not follow soda consumption or diet over the next 10 years. Furthermore it was 3 percent of the participants who had a stroke or 128 of the slightly more than 4,000 people. How you make scientific assumptions over cause in a small population scientifically of 128 people is very questionable. Here are what some of some food scientists are saying about the “study’, which I would call click bait at it’s finest for the media industry.

What the Experts Say About Flawed Diet Soda and Stroke Study

But I don't think they are trying to draw definitive conclusions from this - they are reporting what they found. And a 3x factor seems like something that deserves attention. I don't think that is "bad science".

Many important advances came from some one simply noticing something (penicillin, vulcanization of rubber, etc). We don't call that "bad science", we call it observation. Then the observation gets followed up with more studies and experiments. Plenty of room for bad science in all that, but I would not call this observation bad science, unless they weighted it beyond what you can draw from all the limitations of the data set. I don't see where they are doing that.

-ERD50
 
One of the things that the press constantly does (and sometimes 'scientists' do too in order to draw attention to findings) is to report relative risks rather than absolute risks. If something is associated with an increase in cancer risk from 1 in a million to 3 in a million that is a 3X increased risk of cancer. That sounds very impressive but when you think that the exposure in only associated with an absolute risk increase of 2 in a million people exposed. Suddenly a bit less impressive.

The study in question is poor in many respects and the design should only be used to raise questions for further study. Causation is very difficult to prove and this 'study' doesn't come anywhere near the level of evidence needed to get close. Great for a slow news day though.
 
But I don't think they are trying to draw definitive conclusions from this - they are reporting what they found. And a 3x factor seems like something that deserves attention. I don't think that is "bad science".

Many important advances came from some one simply noticing something (penicillin, vulcanization of rubber, etc). We don't call that "bad science", we call it observation. Then the observation gets followed up with more studies and experiments. Plenty of room for bad science in all that, but I would not call this observation bad science, unless they weighted it beyond what you can draw from all the limitations of the data set. I don't see where they are doing that.

-ERD50
From the study


The researchers admitted to study limitations, including the observational nature of the data, the absence of ethnic minorities, and the use of a self-reported questionnaire to obtain dietary intake data, which may be subject to poor memory.”

It is a GARBAGE study, in my unscientific mind, designed to get I feel additional grant money for the author Sudha Seshadri, who appears to do little other than compile 10 year old stats and ask follow up questions 10 years later as the basis for a “10 year study” and choose outliers as “conclusions"

Now you may not know Sudha Seshadri but the professor was recently was the author of another “study” that claimed that being highly educated you have 1/6th the chance of getting alzheimers as compared to people without a high school degree when more than nine hours of sleep a night occur. And postulated that having a higher education might create a “reserve” of neurons that protects against dementia. All as a result of “studying” 234 cases of dementia. Again a “study” of 2400 in one small town in Massachusetts where they relied on self reporting to target how many developed dementia —234 developed dementia of which only a small portion could possibly have been “highly educated and sleeping more than 9 hours in a night” to reach that conclusion.

So this doctor takes a minimal amount of cases and finds the outliers and declares a study that has a great media hook and proclaims a need for additional funding and nationwide attention on the study as if it is a “fact” when there is not even a scientific basis for this. In both cases Sudha admits that actually the study is proof of nothing only the need for additonal studies and that water is better than diet soda so better safe than sorry. I think no studies are needed for that rather obvious conclusion

Or perhaps her “study” in 2010 of 773 people that showed people with pot bellies are more likely to develop dementia. Of this group 69 developed dementia
Our data suggests a stronger connection between central obesity . . . and risk of dementia and Alzheimer's disease,' said Sudha Seshadri, from Boston University School of Medicine, leader of the study published in the journal Annals of Neurology.

Of course this is offset by a 2016 “study” that claims worldwide dementia rates are declinging because of……. weight gain!
Carrying excess pounds generally raises the risk of diabetes and heart disease, which are thought to increase the risk of dementia, but “late-life obesity may be protective,” wrote commentary authors Ozioma C. Okonkwo and Dr. Sanjay Asthana of the University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health. T

Not to worry ---as a result of decades of working on these ground breaking studies Sadhra was recently awarded 20 million to continue the understanding of the causes of dementia. Probably another 2000 people in Farmington will be able to earn a little money being “studied” by filling out questionaires for the next 10 years. And in the interim “studies” showing popular activities or obvious health risks will have been “determined” to cause dementia in future breathtaking media stories and internet stories.

I find this career of preparing “studies” of statistical anomalies no more compelling than if she had written down gambling results of roulette players over 200 spins of a roulette wheel and determine that since the group that came up showing 4 times more losses than average had reported drinking a diet coke a day— leads to publication of a “study” that drinking of diet soda leads to 4 times more losses than those that do not drink diet soda. And then asking for millions to do a more in depth study of the roulette wheel diet soda drinkers as the actual results are only “observations” and that gambling losses could best be mitigated by drinking water when playing roulette.
 
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So now we have two new studies showing that diet sodas and juices and sugar laden juices are associated with higher rates of dementia. One claimed a 33% relative increase for stroke and dementia over ten years with as little as one diet soda a day. (That one didn't find a problem with sugar). These studies are irritating. Researchers just mine the Framingham data-set and pull out correlations. Then they speculate - maybe it is real cause and effect, maybe the unhealthy cohort switched to diet drinks in a vain attempt to stave off consequences, maybe... This is the same technique that shows weight gain from diet drinks. Argh, switch to water only? Forgo my morning coffee with cream and Splenda? Switch to Stevia? - but who knows what the correlation correlates to? This is all over the news so we will be hearing about it for a while.

Splenda somehow messes up with the good bacteria in your gut. Water, gotta watch out the negative health stuff coming out on purified water. After reading it, I won't drink it. Spring water - some contains too much fluoride. Aspartame in diet sodas, horrible. The only thing that seems safe is coffee. !
 
Splenda somehow messes up with the good bacteria in your gut. Water, gotta watch out the negative health stuff coming out on purified water. After reading it, I won't drink it. Spring water - some contains too much fluoride. Aspartame in diet sodas, horrible. The only thing that seems safe is coffee. !



Coffee AND Scotch!!
 
Wonder how much subconscious Puritanism is in play, with people's willingness to believe every new assertion that something you either enjoy, or that helps you avoid the consequences of some "sin" (e.g. Splenda helps you keep your weight down, thereby avoiding the hard work of refusing sweets) must Have A Price To Pay.
 
Wonder how much subconscious Puritanism is in play, with people's willingness to believe every new assertion that something you either enjoy, or that helps you avoid the consequences of some "sin" (e.g. Splenda helps you keep your weight down, thereby avoiding the hard work of refusing sweets) must Have A Price To Pay.

But what if using Splenda does not help you keep your weight down? Maybe it only helps with blood sugar spikes from sweet drinks (but doesn't help with blood sugar spikes from those supposedly "sugar free" desserts loaded with other blood sugar spiking refined carbs").
 
From the study .....


The researchers admitted to study limitations, including the observational nature of the data, the absence of ethnic minorities, and the use of a self-reported questionnaire to obtain dietary intake data, which may be subject to poor memory.”

It is a GARBAGE study, ...

We'll just have to disagree then. I don't think that an author pointing out the limitations of the study make it "bad science". Claiming it was a definitive study with these limitations would be my definition of "bad science".

Sure, maybe he is just fishing for grant money. But then again, maybe this is deserving of grant money?

-ERD50
 
Wonder how much subconscious Puritanism is in play, with people's willingness to believe every new assertion that something you either enjoy, or that helps you avoid the consequences of some "sin" (e.g. Splenda helps you keep your weight down, thereby avoiding the hard work of refusing sweets) must Have A Price To Pay.

I very easily ignore the studies that moderate amounts of coffee and/or alcohol are bad for you! :)

-ERD50
 
Here is an article discussing the soda health issue. The guy who writes this column is somebody who, IMHO, has a level head and no particular drum to beat. Still it is only one Doc's Opinion".

Artificially Sweetened Beverages and the Risk of Stroke and Dementia

emphasis mine:

Interestingly, the study by Pase and coworkers also found that diabetes mellitus, which is a known risk factor for dementia, was more prevalent in those who regularly consumed artificially sweetened soft drinks.

On the other hand, it should be pointed out that as this was an observational study and therefore can not determine whether there is a causal relationship between artificially sweetened soft drink intake and diabetes and stroke or dementia.
 
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It makes perfect sense that diet sodas would correlate each with obesity and diabetes. Those are the folks more likely to drink diet sodas in an attempt to reduce their calorie intake (for the obese), and avoid blood sugar increase (for the diabetic).
 
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