Purdue Pharma going bankrupt

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I wonder if acupuncture would be helpful. Listen to the Commonwealth Club of California podcast of August 22, 2019, featuring John Nieters, L. Ac. Doctor of Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine, Licensed Acupuncturist; Former President, Academy of Chinese Culture and Health Sciences.
 
I'm just too old to understand... time to hang up the keyboard.

With tens to hundreds of billions of dollars being sued, and maybe 400,000 dead because of the what the drug companies may have been responsible for, ...and just as many people and their families who will suffer for the rest of their lives...

...Why will not one dollar go to any victim?

The general media discussions indicate that almost all of the monies will go into the general coffers of the states....General coffers meaning that the legislators may use the money for anything, roads, payrolls, and even government travel and entertainment.

I know it doesn't matter, because that's the way life works... but I wish at least that they could spend a few dollars for flowers on the graves of the dead.

... not likely.

Interesting discussion on health, though.
 
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This article is from last year. Topic opening a whole can of worms regarding donations and philanthropic support from these companies.

https://dailyillini.com/news/2018/09/17/ui-donors-questioned-for-potential-role-in-opioid-crisis/


"The House Energy and Commerce Committee said the company distributed 3,000 hydrocodone (commonly known as Vicodin) tablets a day to a pharmacy in Logan County a decade ago, which is 10 times more than in 2007, according to a story from the Charleston Gazette-Mail. A total of 1.1 million pills were sent to the small town in 2008."


"The committee also questioned H.D. Smith’s large sales to four other pharmacies. The hearing followed a year after H.D. Smith paid the state $3.5 million to settle pill-dumping allegations."


$3.5 M seems like a drop in the bucket for what's coming. The University is now in a position to review, possibly refund the donation. The ethics committee will be under fire for accepting this donation.



The Smith's donated over $20M to the University.
 
My BIL, a dentist in FL., visited the other week.What a mess they've created, three days max on opioids. He said for dental stuff it was okay but made 2x more work. He said the hospices were in terrible condition because of these changes.

Doctors and dentists can blame their unscrupulous colleagues for some of the limitations they are now seeing

https://www.nbcconnecticut.com/news...a-Gateway-to-the-Opioid-Crisis-512989121.html

The clinics' doctors did no diagnostic work. They just signed prescriptions and shuffled the "patients" to the clinics' onsite pharmacies to buy oxycodone and other narcotics at $10 a pill, cash-only. Some pill-mill tourists would visit a dozen or more clinics before returning home with thousands of pills, which would be sold to their neighbors for up to $100 each. Within a few days, many again headed south to buy more.
 
Yep.

Going after the drug manufacturers (because they have the deepest pockets) as the top priority is missing the real wrong-doers. It's like ordering Toyota to pay billions to offset the cost of drunk driving.........
Not so sure. My dad's (restaurant) got sued when his bartender continued to serve drinks to a clearly drunk couple. The male of the couple killed someone at another restaurant. Got up and shot someone who made him mad in another restaurant. So, lawsuits to every bartender (I should say restaurant owner) down the line who continued to serve this couple. Cost my dad a fortune going to trial, lawyer, expenditures in travel. Now who's at fault? I agree, the makers of the booze should not be penalized. Not sure about the restaurants (I guess the middleman). But the bartenders (the doctors). He's filling the glass (writing the scripts) when clearly, the customer (patient) is overusing.
 
Not so sure. My dad's (restaurant) got sued when his bartender continued to serve drinks to a clearly drunk couple. The male of the couple killed someone at another restaurant. Got up and shot someone who made him mad in another restaurant. So, lawsuits to every bartender (I should say restaurant owner) down the line who continued to serve this couple. Cost my dad a fortune going to trial, lawyer, expenditures in travel. Now who's at fault? I agree, the makers of the booze should not be penalized. Not sure about the restaurants (I guess the middleman). But the bartenders (the doctors). He's filling the glass (writing the scripts) when clearly, the customer (patient) is overusing.

Not a valid comparison Rianne. In Illinois taverns are mandated and empowered to observe patrons and refuse to serve those that exhibit signs of being "over-served." Signing up to that is a requirement for obtaining a liquor license.

Now if you said the woodshop that made the bar was sued, that would be a good comparison.

I really believe that the docs, dentists and others (legally licensed to do so) that wrote the prescriptions need to be taken to task more severely than has happened so far.
 
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I really believe that the docs, dentists and others (legally licensed to do so) that wrote the prescriptions need to be taken to task more severely than has happened so far.

What did the doctors do wrong? Unless they knowingly wrote a prescription for someone who didn't need one, it's not their fault. The person taking the medication when they don't need it, taking too much of it, or taking it in a way not intended(crushing and snorting instead of swallowing whole) is the one at fault. There may have been some bad doctors but I think the main problem was the people abusing the medication.
 
Not so sure. My dad's (restaurant) got sued when his bartender continued to serve drinks to a clearly drunk couple. The male of the couple killed someone at another restaurant. Got up and shot someone who made him mad in another restaurant. So, lawsuits to every bartender (I should say restaurant owner) down the line who continued to serve this couple. Cost my dad a fortune going to trial, lawyer, expenditures in travel. Now who's at fault? I agree, the makers of the booze should not be penalized. Not sure about the restaurants (I guess the middleman). But the bartenders (the doctors). He's filling the glass (writing the scripts) when clearly, the customer (patient) is overusing.

Similar thing happened here a few years back. Bar over-served a 23 year old girl who drove home the wrong way on the interstate and killed two young people (head on crash). Bartender got sued and had no assets so the bar insurance got tagged for a cool million. Young lady driver got 37 years in prison.
 
What did the doctors do wrong? Unless they knowingly wrote a prescription for someone who didn't need one, it's not their fault. The person taking the medication when they don't need it, taking too much of it, or taking it in a way not intended(crushing and snorting instead of swallowing whole) is the one at fault. There may have been some bad doctors but I think the main problem was the people abusing the medication.

Did you read the article I linked about the Florida pill mills.? Those guys weren't acting as doctors; they were nothing but drug dealers.
 
Did you read the article I linked about the Florida pill mills.? Those guys weren't acting as doctors; they were nothing but drug dealers.

+1

And did anyone watch the 60 Minutes video "Inside the Epidemic" I posted upthread about an extremely unscrupulous Florida doctor/drug dealer now in prison? Amazing to watch his defense of prescribing thousands of pills and the cellphone video of one of the 'pill mills' gives clear picture of how busy and crowded those places can be.

(segment starts at 14:28) https://www.cbsnews.com/video/ransomware-inside-the-epidemic-tim-green/

omni
 
And even doctors who weren't running pill mills knew/know that opioids are highly addictive and common drugs of abuse. They also had good evidence that for many, many cases they had alternatives that were just as effective, had no risk of addiction/abuse and much less worrisome side effect profiles. The oath goes 'Primum non nocere' (First, do no harm).
 
Yep.



Going after the drug manufacturers (because they have the deepest pockets) as the top priority is missing the real wrong-doers. It's like ordering Toyota to pay billions to offset the cost of drunk driving.........



I worked in the pharmaceutical business in nuclear medicine in my past life. There is a lot of culpability in the manufacturer here. Crooked docs and pharmacies have been around forever, manufacturers spent millions knowing in advance how much of a market there is for a new drug. Not only did they know the market was corrupt, they encouraged it.

I sympathize with the legitimate patients but the manufacturers need to go down. Death penalty for Purdue and prison for the executives would not be out of line. We are talking about hundreds of thousands of live here.

Sorry, edit. Wanted to respond to your Toyota analogy. How about if thousands of brand new Toyota trucks suddenly appeared being driven in every Isis video in spite of embargoes against supplying terrorist. Wouldn’t you question that? As a manufacturer I would damn well know where the came from.
 
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And even doctors who weren't running pill mills knew/know that opioids are highly addictive and common drugs of abuse. They also had good evidence that for many, many cases they had alternatives that were just as effective, had no risk of addiction/abuse and much less worrisome side effect profiles. The oath goes 'Primum non nocere' (First, do no harm).
Didn’t the manufacturer deny addiction and abuse vehemently? And continued aggressive marketing. They are not an innocent party.
This escalation of salesmanship and market competition involved many global pharmaceutical corporations. But unfettered profit-seeking in the sale of potent opioids has been widely traced to the 1996 introduction of Oxycontin by Purdue. In 2007, Purdue pleaded guilty in federal court to a felony charge, having misled doctors and patients about the drug’s potential for abuse and addiction. The company and some executives were ultimately forced to do community service and pay a total of $634 million in fines.

In a subsequent congressional hearing, Senator Arlen Specter asked why these executives didn’t go to jail. The prosecutor John Brownlee had wanted to indict them individually on felony charges, The New York Times later reported. Brownlee possessed records that Purdue had known about Oxycontin’s growing abuse for three years, according to the Times. But after meeting with Purdue’s legal team, the Justice Department reportedly refused to get behind Brownlee’s recommendations. The individual executives were allowed to plead guilty to misdemeanor charges instead, and were not personally implicated in any felony wrongdoing.

Purdue continued aggressive promotion of Oxycontin, and opioid overdoses only increased. In the ensuing five years, enough pills were sent to overdose-mired West Virginia alone that there would be 433 per person.

Then, in June of last year, Massachusetts Attorney General Maura Healey filed a lawsuit against Purdue alleging yet again that the company knowingly misled doctors and consumers about the dangers of its product. (Purdue denied this.) Thousands of other state and federal lawsuits followed.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2019/08/opioid-justice/597064/
 
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+1000

I'm an example of a different kind of victim, like many others on this board. Sometimes I have severe pain and now I can't get the appropriate pain meds. You know I have to take this garbage a couple months every 5 years or so. So I have an issue? My last need for meds got me half the meds I had 5 years ago. Someone forgot to tell my body it has half the pain!

Our doctors are afraid to prescribe appropriate medications! How nice.


And this has me petrified, I want to schedule a replacement surgery but am putting it off because I'm worried about not being able to get medication ☹️
 
I worked in the pharmaceutical business in nuclear medicine in my past life. There is a lot of culpability in the manufacturer here. Crooked docs and pharmacies have been around forever, manufacturers spent millions knowing in advance how much of a market there is for a new drug. Not only did they know the market was corrupt, they encouraged it.

I sympathize with the legitimate patients but the manufacturers need to go down. Death penalty for Purdue and prison for the executives would not be out of line. We are talking about hundreds of thousands of live here.

Sorry, edit. Wanted to respond to your Toyota analogy. How about if thousands of brand new Toyota trucks suddenly appeared being driven in every Isis video in spite of embargoes against supplying terrorist. Wouldn’t you question that? As a manufacturer I would damn well know where the came from.


Lol we don't do that with gun manufacturers.
 
And this has me petrified, I want to schedule a replacement surgery but am putting it off because I'm worried about not being able to get medication ☹️

My DH had shoulder joint replacement surgery a couple of years ago. A pain management device that injected painkiller med at the effected nerves was placed during the surgery. He could control the amount of painkiller needed in real-time. It worked and was removed about 2 weeks after surgery. Talk to your surgeon about this anesthesia. This was at a Kaiser hospital. DH didn't need any oral narcotic painkillers.
 
Why do we allow the government to decide these things?
My doctor should be able to prescribe what I need. I trust him more than my congressman.
A quick story. When my grandmother was 7 the household came down with something sounding like Whooping Cough. She was the only one well enough to walk into town and ask the pharmacist for medicine in credit. The pharmacist have her a bottle of tincture of opium and it probably saved her brothers life. He had coughed himself into a broken rib already. No one became an addict. No one had issues.
Are we less intelligent or wise these days? We no longer have the freedoms we once had.
 
+1000

I'm an example of a different kind of victim, like many others on this board. Sometimes I have severe pain and now I can't get the appropriate pain meds. You know I have to take this garbage a couple months every 5 years or so. So I have an issue? My last need for meds got me half the meds I had 5 years ago. Someone forgot to tell my body it has half the pain!

Our doctors are afraid to prescribe appropriate medications! How nice.

My sympathies.
When DGF was dying of cancer her Primary Care Doc was quite liberal with the opiodes. It probably kept her home and out of Hospice for an extra month. Just read the state is looking to pull her license for over prescribing.
 
Why do we allow the government to decide these things?
My doctor should be able to prescribe what I need. I trust him more than my congressman.
A quick story. When my grandmother was 7 the household came down with something sounding like Whooping Cough. She was the only one well enough to walk into town and ask the pharmacist for medicine in credit. The pharmacist hav her a bottle of tincture of opium and it probably saved her brothers life. Heo had coughed himself into a broken rib already. No one became an addict. No one had issues.
Are we less intelligent or wise these days? We no longer have the freedoms we once had.

No we just abandon personal responsibility. every thing is someone elses fault.

I had my left knee replaced, I was sent home with oxycotodine HCL and it was great, it allowed me to get through physical therapy successfully. I took it according to directions and never became addicted.
What pisses me off is that America has always had a drug issue and before not a thing was done because the people dying where not little johnny or jane.

Now it's an issue because middle class white america is addicted and now we have to find a scapegoat and people who actually need their medicine damn near have to go find a crack dealer in order to get it.

And now i'm supposed to get upset because they can't off of the needle?? they hypocrisy of this country is amazing

:mad::mad:
N
 
I was surprised this even expanded to pet care. I had an issue getting enough meds for my poor cat that had a broken back, was only allowed to have a week at a time, what a pain in the butt, like its a 7 pound cat, how high could I get on a 7 pound cats worth of pain meds?

When I had my back problems, most of it was nerve pain which the pain meds don't help at all. So most of my meds I ended up putting in coffee grounds and dumping... though I did have a drink with the one med and can say.. yep got a serious high one night and that freaked me out.. I do understand why someone who has a sucky life would be tempted to do that again and again and easily get addicted.

My biggest issue came when doing hospice with my dad because he was on the pain meds which was fine until he couldn't swallow any longer .. they told me I had to give him a certain amount of morphine over a certain amount of time before they could issue me the patch... I spend like 3 days in hell trying to stay awake to try to keep him medicated every hour (as thats all the longer it was good for). I guess they just assumed multiple people would be there to rotate, but its home hospice, not sure why they would assume that.
 
I was surprised this even expanded to pet care. I had an issue getting enough meds for my poor cat that had a broken back, was only allowed to have a week at a time, what a pain in the butt, like its a 7 pound cat, how high could I get on a 7 pound cats worth of pain meds?

When I had my back problems, most of it was nerve pain which the pain meds don't help at all. So most of my meds I ended up putting in coffee grounds and dumping... though I did have a drink with the one med and can say.. yep got a serious high one night and that freaked me out.. I do understand why someone who has a sucky life would be tempted to do that again and again and easily get addicted.

My biggest issue came when doing hospice with my dad because he was on the pain meds which was fine until he couldn't swallow any longer .. they told me I had to give him a certain amount of morphine over a certain amount of time before they could issue me the patch... I spend like 3 days in hell trying to stay awake to try to keep him medicated every hour (as thats all the longer it was good for). I guess they just assumed multiple people would be there to rotate, but its home hospice, not sure why they would assume that.
How sad.

It's worse than just pets too. Our grocery store has Imodium under lock and key. Apparently addicts figured out if you eat a couple hundred you get that familiar constipation and a slight opioid like high. [emoji41]
 
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