Shoulder pain

MichaelB said:
Reading your health related posts gives us so much to look forward to ..
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Let me tell my medical (bone-related) stories.....on second thought, it would take too long and use too much bandwidth. LOL!

And the over 70 thing...it's for real, unfortunately.
 
Cortisone shots are only a stop gap. They may lessen the pain for awhile, but they are not going to touch the real issue. I had a torn rotator cuff for many years: always felt a bit strange, but last year it suddenly got much worse with a lot of pain. I had surgery one year ago this month. It was a very long recovery but now I feel 100%, if just a tad weaker (coming back slowly). It is manageable.
 
Janet,

There is a new nerve stimulation device available called BioWave. It's supposed to be more effective than a Tens unit. I've tried it but it did little to relieve my pain.
 
After shoulder surgery, I had severe pain right on my shoulder bone. Took a few days to figure out that the idiot who put the sling on me had left the buckle right on top of the bone. When I properly adjusted the sling, no more pain.

How exactly do they get rid of calcification? Got that on the other shoulder now. Doc mentioned chemicals to dissolve (so some sort of acid?) and/or mechanical means. Is it soft like chalk or hard like bone? Are they adhered to the tissue or can they just yank them out? Is 5/8" thick average or huge? Got the diagnosis just before lockdown, so no chance to try PT first, yet.
 
I suffered with intense shoulder pain - both shoulders. About the time I couldn't stand it any longer, I was diagnosed with cancer in a different area. Thus began another 4-year journey, and I just threw all the pain in the same bucket. Last year I had rotator cuff surgery on the worst shoulder. The surgery was not easy. For about 7-8 months, I had a lot of pain and PT. My surgical shoulder is MUCH better now. Occasionally, I have some pain but it is significantly improved since pre-surgery. My other shoulder needs to be done also. I have been limping along, sleep-deprived, and having shots. My MD doesn't want to give me anymore shots. While Covid is blooming, I am extremely hesitant to have surgery. I suspect, had I not waited so long to have my first shoulder fixed, the process would have gone easier and with less damage and
pain.
 
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Until 8 days after the shot, my shoulder ached more than before when it was just a sharp pain when I moved it to a further extension, That sharp pain only lasted 5 to 15 seconds. Then the ache went away, I have a little
more movement before the sharp pain. I see the doc again on Monday, I'm going to ask about PT and if I can cause more damage by trying to get more movement without pain. I'm not at the point where I would consider surgery.
I would hope to get to the point where I can throw a ball. I haven't played any ball for 20 years, but it just isn't right that I don't have the movement to throw a ball. ( At least in my mind)
 
I had a shoulder impingement. I got up one morning and couldn’t reach behind my back, then realized I couldn’t reach above my shoulder. I saw my doctor, who sent me for an MRI, which showed several small rotator tears. She referred me for PT, which I did for a couple of months, and then my PT sent me to an orthopedic surgeon because I wasn’t making much progress. I ended up having two injections and six months of PT. The rotator cuff tears were not addressed, but I have been pain free for about 18 months.

I will say that the worst pain I have ever experienced was when the wind blew my hat off my head and I automatically reached for it with my bad arm. The pain brought me to my knees. It only lasted a few seconds, but it was excruciating.
 
I had surgery on both shoulders for bone spurs, about a year apart. The spur finally punched through the ligament and it had to be reattached. That was around 2006. Been fine ever since. Went through that whole routine of cortisone shots which lasted a couple of months. At the end I had little choice, I couldn't lift my arm. Good luck.
 
DH had a spur that cause a sharp pain when he reached backwards. He got it fixed and hasn't had trouble since. Bone spurs generally don't go away by themselves and can cause damage to surrounding tissue over time. I'd just get it fixed as soon as it's convenient.
 
jcretire77 said:
Had an AC Joint bone spur w/ arthritis clean up years ago that fixed right shoulder pain that stopped me from playing tennis. Was able to play for many years afterward.

After a torn labrum in the right shoulder I decided that priorities had changed and did not want to go through another surgery and focused on golf.

While on Lisinopril i experienced a frozen left shoulder. It was pretty bad, but physical therapy resolved the issue. I cannot prove that Lisinopril was the culprit, but will never take that again.

Now at 61 it does not take much to aggravate the tendons on either side and longer for the irritation to settle down. The joy of getting older.
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I have the same thing going on with my AC joint. I had one cortisone injection about 6 months ago. It was extremely painful as the doc was trying to make room inside the joint with the sharp end of the needle. I have passed and had surgery for kidney stones, but this one little shot nearly made me pass out. However, the pain in the joint is now dull and it is not waking me up at night. I haven't played golf since I got the shot, but am looking forward to hitting the range next week. I feel like the shot was a band aid since the bone spurs are still in there. Would you do the surgery again?
 
Not medical advice just what I've done for my shoulder pain caused by injury. In short if caused by trauma it forms scar tissue which increases pain receptors in the scar tissue (aka nociceptors) and limits mobility without a process of psychical activity to increase mobility. The nociceptors cause heightened perception of pain. In my case most mornings spend five minutes doing shoulder rotation exercises and delt exercises with light weights in a variety of angles that are comfortable for me with a goal, over time, of increasing the range of motion. If I recall the first few weeks were painful but over time the pain subsided for the most part with occasional spikes but the daily pain was eliminated most days and substantially reduces on rare days of pain. As others have stated inflammatory food can contribute to the pain so I keep my exposure reduced (except for the whiskey which is my guilty pleasure).

sources:
https://health.uconn.edu/cell-biology/wp-content/uploads/sites/115/2017/10/Revised-Book-2014.pdf
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/6-foods-that-cause-inflammation#8
 
You may end up needing surgery, but of course you don't want to go there first. So, FWIW, I'm a physician but not an orthopaedic surgeon. I hope I can help here, and I realize you may already be doing much of this. I don't know you, so maybe some of this is irrelevant--ignore if not needed, keep if helpful. I'm sorry you are going through this.

Before this injury becomes chronic, throw the book at it. Do everything simple and harmless you can do right now that is not surgical: rest from aggravating activities, ice after activity, green tea, turmeric with pepper, and ginger as anti-inflammatories. Eat super healthy food, building your diet around plants. Check out some information on anti-inflammatory diets. The more white sugar, white flour, and concentrated animal fats you can eliminate from your diet, the better you are going to feel, and that goes for everything, not just your shoulder. Exercise is a powerful anti-inflammatory, so since you can't play ball right now, find something else you can do daily, if you aren't already. At our age, you don't have to go at it hard or fast or far. Consistency is much more important. Get adequate sleep. Manage any other medical problems optimally. Don't let anyone else stand in the way of your doing these things and getting well.

If you can tolerate them and your doc says it's OK or thinks it may help, also go with the topical anti-inflammatory lotion (diclofenac) or oral nonsteroidal anti-inflammatories (any kind) for a couple of weeks.

As someone correctly mentioned above, you need a physical therapist and a very competent massage therapist who really knows their stuff. Your doc may be able to help you find them. Learn safe stretches and exercises from them, working up very, very slowly. Give them feedback and let them work with you on modifying exercises and activities as necessary. Get them to communicate with one another so they all know what's going on with you. Acupuncture will not hurt anything, and I would try it. Obviously it won't alter bone, but they may be able to calm the nerves and muscles down, which might be enough to stop things rubbing against the spur. I've gotten a lot of mileage out of these different non-physician healing arts and simple exercises. For example, I'm swimming with a torn subscapularis (it's been torn for over 40 years). I'm not a swift or powerful swimmer, but that's not my goal. I'd rather stretch and go in for massage tweaks than have surgery, and so far it's working.

Just be sure the people you are seeing have some kind of license and that the treatments proposed have some basis in the medical literature (not on a bunch of dotcom sites). There is a lot of voodoo **** going on out there. Ask a lot of questions and be willing to spend time identifying some good people. A competent practitioner will not interpret your questions as a challenge, but will welcome them and encourage you to be an active participant in your own healing. Of course, none of us has all the answers, and we should admit it when we don't know something (which is often because no one knows it).

Set some reasonable goals. Your first goal is to do the stuff you have to do without excessive pain: eat, get dressed, wipe your bum, carry groceries, put your dishes away, put a seat belt on, drive a car, etc. Your second goal is to be able to do stuff you want to do, like toss the ball around. Please keep in mind that this might be all you get. You're not going to feel like you're 20 again. It's not going to be perfect, even if they operate on it. I know that seems obvious, but it's unbelievable how many people think that surgery (or whatever treatment they are pursuing) is some sort of magic and will restore 100% comfort and function, and they are very disappointed when their results are only partial. If you do end up with surgery, the rehabilitation exercises will be very important.

The steroids you inject into a shoulder (or anywhere) generally either work pretty well the first time, or they never work. Repeated injections may provide diminishing returns. The steroids, if used repeatedly, may cause the ligaments, tendons and muscles to atrophy, so please do not do these injections over and over.

I hope this helps and I hope you feel better soon. BTW, don't be afraid to shop. If you encounter a practitioner of any sort who is not listening to you or serving your needs, move on and find someone else. Don't worry about their reaction. Your health is more important than their feelings.
 
Consider yourself lucky. I'll turn 55 in June and I have bone on bone arthritis in both shoulders. I'm hard on my body, mountain biking, etc. Still things shouldn't be this bad this early. 3 orthopedic Dr's and I have 3 answers: It just happens, it's hereditary (only my only sibling/sister has had problems) and it's infected (the top guy in the Twin Cities but he's a stubborn SOB). Going on 3 years since my left failed rotator cuff repair and I'm still pushing Dr's to figure it out. Mainly thru an infectious disease specialist and a rheumatologist. I have to wait till the mid-June for the infection culture though it's from a fluid sample and not a biopsy since the SOB won't do it unless I'm ready for a full reverse shoulder replacement (last about 10 years and 50/50 chance of re-replacing then, else your arm is a wet noodle_). I have a lot of pain but half is my neck/trapezoid muscles(PT that does dry needling was working until COVID came along) and the other half is arthritis. Aleve with Tylenol barely gets me thru for now. Cortisone might help but I'm guessing not since it hasn't worked in the past but neither did Aleve before. TBD.
 
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freedomatlast said:
I had a case of "frozen shoulder" for about a year. Couldn't touch my back with my left arm without severe shoulder pain and trying to put my coat on with my left arm was almost impossible. At about the 8 month mark, I finally visited a doctor and she suggested X rays to start. Everything looked good on the x rays so they then suggested therapy sessions which I declined. Now at about the one year mark, I'm 98% back to normal with no pain during daily activities.
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I had two frozen shoulders in the past 12 years. Worse pain I’ve ever experienced. All (reputable) practitioners told me that time was the only treatment. One resolved after 14 months, and the 2nd one after 8 months. I’m now religious above doing gentle range of motion exercises daily. I don’t ever want to go through that again. Could barely dress myself, couldn’t reach for dishes on upper shelves, couldn’t sleep on either side, etc., etc.
 
gailwinters said:
I had a shoulder impingement. I got up one morning and couldn’t reach behind my back, then realized I couldn’t reach above my shoulder. I saw my doctor, who sent me for an MRI, which showed several small rotator tears. She referred me for PT, which I did for a couple of months, and then my PT sent me to an orthopedic surgeon because I wasn’t making much progress. I ended up having two injections and six months of PT. The rotator cuff tears were not addressed, but I have been pain free for about 18 months.

I will say that the worst pain I have ever experienced was when the wind blew my hat off my head and I automatically reached for it with my bad arm. The pain brought me to my knees. It only lasted a few seconds, but it was excruciating.
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Yes, that type of pain will do it to you. In the frozen shoulder "community" it’s referred to as a "zinger" - it has brought me to my knees several times, taken my breath away, etc.
 
Shoulder pain - try this first

I’ve had a rotator cuff issue for many years - knock on effect from many years of baseball and in my earlier days poor approach to weight training. I’ve solved the latter later in life (see StartingStrength.com) with much success, but until recently have been hampered by the rotator cuff issue. Many years ago I went thru the same and normal progression you describe - the steroid shot to temporarily reduce the inflammation, but that was a short term fix, then chiropractor to try and avoid surgery, and then or throw optic surgery then rehab with bands and light weights. Didn’t solve the problem. But now, I actually have a recommendation for you I believe likely will help you, like it has me and many others if I can believe what I read / hear. Try Hanging! I know it sounds crazy - but it is really helping me. It’s something we used to do to relieve elbow tendinitis (I was a pitcher) “nbarlow k in the day. The book, “Shoulder Pain? The Solution & Prevention: Fifth Edition Revised and Expanded is where I stumbled on this. It’s by Dr John Kirsch. It very strongly recommend you try this before you go under the knife. He has a website as well....let us know! Here is the link:

https://www.amazon.com/Shoulder-Pai...h+M.D.&s=books&sr=1-3&text=John+M.+Kirsch+M.D.
 
I am 69 and in surprisingly good health in every way except my bones. I am an orthopedic's dream. Started having back pain 15 years ago. After trip to Russia in 2004 (lots of walking & stair climbing), woke up one morning and could not straighten my back. I was walking around in a permanent position of bowing at the waist. I got my first set of injections which worked like a charm. I had to get them about every 2 years, then every year, eventually annually, then twice a year and in 2016 & 2017, 3 times a year with minimal and short lived relief. The things that have been suggested since are invasive, painful, and no guarantees. I've opted to wait and watch others who've had the procedures and many had great pain followed by near total relief, but only for 6-12 months and then repeat.

I've also had 2 knee replacements, 2 thumb surgeries for worn out socket/ball, 2 foot surgeries (one included fusing big toe, the other 3 screws at base of big toe), a broken arm that required internal and external fixators and now to the topic of this post, I started having excruciating pain in my right shoulder late 2018. I couldn't lift my arm over my head, definitely couldn't reach to the side and don't even try to throw a ball, which my cat likes to chase and bring back to me. It turned out to be a small tear in the rotator cuff.

I was already in physical therapy after a knee replacement and from seeing what friends had gone through after rotator cuff surgery, I did not want to be debilitated wearing a frame, cast, brace, or sling for months after. So, my doctor suggested PT to build up the muscles around it to protect it and not do surgery. We added 2 days a week for shoulder to the 2 for knee. When I completed the knee PT, we used those 2 days to work on the back, since injections no longer work and I didn't like the options of implanted device or burning nerves. PT did wonders. It took a few months but I am now able to manage pain through exercises and keeping certain muscles strong. I occasionally overdo or just get lazy and then have to get a refresher with the therapist, and pain isn't non-existent, but quite manageable and better than more surgery. If it's an option, I suggest trying PT. Although, bone spurs are probably going to need to be removed and since it's minimally invasive surgery, shouldn't be too debilitating or be painful for long after. PT might even speed recovery.

BTW, my mother had cortisone shots for bursitis and she quit. She said the shots hurt worse than the bursitis and lasted for days after.
 
I will agree that shoulder and rotator cuff pain is in a class all by itself. I have an appt. on Wed. and the MD has told me many times that surgery is necessary. I had my other shoulder done about 1 1/2 years ago. The pain prior to surgery was bad, however, the left-shoulder pain following surgery was excruciating for many months. I was up and down all night, every night. My repaired rotator cuff is still cranky from time to time. I want to try another shot in my right shoulder but - I have had many shots. I really don't want to do surgery in my right cuff/shoulder during Pandemic but am going crazy with pain. Then I remind myself that the pain following surgery is long and painful. They of course, surgery is followed by months of PT.
 
Grab a copy of The Sports Medicine Patient Advisor on ebay. It'll probably cost about $5 to $10. It has physical therapy exercises for shoulders, arms, feet, everything. It's the book my doctor uses and it works very well.


Zap the shoulder with cortisone, wait a week and then do the exercises 3 times per week. Crank up your fav tunes and do it. Only takes 5 minutes per day.
 
I second the suggestion to try PT FIRST. It may not work, but surgery has lots of potential downsides, where PT just costs some money in most cases. Best of luck and don't forget that YMMV.
 
My wife suffers from spinal stenosis, and she has terrible arthritis. She had a knee replacement 2 years ago and came out of it well. Then she fell and injured a shoulder. After extensive physical therapy and steroid shots, surgery was warranted. When the orthopedic surgeon got in there, the damage was much worse than expected but he wasn't prepared to do a replacement. He ended up putting a 7" rod down her arm and he didn't tell her. Recovery was difficult but she finally quit hurting after a year.

My wife's been under pain management for 20 years. Politicians want to be able to say that their state has cut controlled substance prescriptions "X%" in the last year. And it's to the point where doctors are being told what to prescribe and how much to cut their patients. (She's had 3 doctors retire and quit being physicians.) What the states are not admitting is that so many pain management patients cannot stand the pain they're in, and they're going to other illegal sources of medicines to slow or stop the pain. And they're dying of heroin and fentanyl overdoses in mass.

Let me cut to the chase. Pain is there for a reason. When you get completely miserable with shoulder or back pains, see a doctor immediately. Don't be a He Man and try to tough it out because if you wait too long the damage will be done and it's irreversible. You don't want to live your remaining years in the bed or in a nursing home. Get something done while you can be repaired.
 
The OP here. I went to PT, the first exam was just getting range of motion measurements. The second appointment we started stretching exercises and
some physical manipulation, no after affects. The third appointment he added a stretch that was very painful, yet as soon as I stop the stretch position the pain goes away. It was the same with the physical manipulation,
he would put my shoulder in a stretch position until I told him to stop, because of the pain. I think the stretch is what I need, so I'm grinding through it. Shoulder has a minor ache since PT yesterday. I'm going 3 days a week.
 
My shoulder pain ended up being my neck. Had my neck injected and no shoulder pain for more than a year
 
I had my 4th PT session today, It has increased my range of movement, I can almost make the complete motion to throw a ball with some pain. I still have a lot of trouble getting my hand behind my back and lifting it. When I ask about the stretch I was doingfor that, he said that was fine and gave me another exercise that adds a little more stretch to do at home.

I've had three PTs so far, each a little different RE: the hands on manipulation, which I think does the most good, even though it is painful.
I look forward to each session. I work hard because I want to get over this.
 
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