Sugary Soft Drinks

DW insisted on fat free organic milk until "we" noticed how much sugar it has.

I didn't realize there was an unsweetened 0g version, we'll have to look for it to try.

I don't drink almond or coconut milk straight, so I can't comment on whether or not it's that good in a glass. I use it in my breakfast concoction, cook with it occasionally, and rarely add a little to my coffee. That said, the unsweetened is good for all of it.

And yes, fat-free dairy has a looooooot of sugar used to make up for the lack of milkfat, which is naturally sweet. I don't take in a lot of dairy as is. On the average day, just a serving of full-fat cottage cheese at breakfast and a splash of heavy cream with my coffee... I do like aged cheeses too, but those are more of a treat.

When I was in my 20s, I did everything fat-free. I cringe when I think about how much sugar I was taking in, even though I skipped the soda and such...
 
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I avoid almost all sugar for breakfast: 3 egg omelet and black coffee. Sometimes I add some sausage and often my omelet contains ham or bacon bits (real bacon chunks). Keeps me happy until lunchtime...

The omelet does have a pinch of cheese in it which does have a bit of sugar (lactose, which is a disaccharide of glucose and galactose).
 
...

And yes, fat-free dairy has a looooooot of sugar used to make up for the lack of milkfat, which is naturally sweet. ...

? A looooooot? How do you figure that? There's no sugar added to skim milk. Though, eliminating the ~ 3.5% fat means everything else is 3.5% more (percentage multiple, not percentage points_ - so x1.035) to make up that volume.

According to this source for one:

Calories in Milk: A Nutritional Comparison of Milks With Different Percentages of Fat

About 11 gm sugar versus 12 gm. Not a looooooot, is it?

-ERD50
 
? A looooooot? How do you figure that? There's no sugar added to skim milk. Though, eliminating the ~ 3.5% fat means everything else is 3.5% more (percentage multiple, not percentage points_ - so x1.035) to make up that volume.

According to this source for one:

Calories in Milk: A Nutritional Comparison of Milks With Different Percentages of Fat

About 11 gm sugar versus 12 gm. Not a looooooot, is it?

-ERD50
The average American consumes around 22.2 teaspoons of added sugar every day, and both the World Health Organization and the American Heart Association (AHA) note that we should really be eating a fraction of that amount. The AHA says that adult women should get 5 teaspoons (20 grams) of sugar per day, adult men 9 teaspoons (36 grams), and children 3 teaspoons (12 grams). For comparison, a can of soda can have 40 grams, or about 10 teaspoons of sugar.
Is it?

Your Recommended Sugar Intake: Less Than a Soda Per Day | Rodale News
 
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Is it? ...

I meant in relative terms, not absolute (12 gm is significant in absolute terms). I don't see 12 gm versus 11 gm as 'a looooooot'. In the context, I took it as a relative statement of full fat versus fat-free milk:

Originally Posted by nash031 View Post
...

And yes, fat-free dairy has a looooooot of sugar used to make up for the lack of milkfat, which is naturally sweet. ...

That sure sounded to me like he is saying that sugar is added to fat-free dairy. That's not the case with milk at least. Maybe ice cream or some other 'dairy product'? I dunno.

-ERD50
 
Some more data (starting to stray from sugary drinks, but not too far...):

Milk And Cream Nutrition

All information is for a one cup (8 ounce) serving. For the creams, calorie counts are also given for a tablespoon measure for anyone who puts more like a tablespoon rather than a cup of cream in their coffee.

Heavy (also whipping) cream: 821 calories; 88.06g fat; 6.64g carbs; 4.88g protein (1tbsp=51 calories)
Coffee (table) cream also called light cream: 468 calories; 46.34g fat; 8.78g carbs; 6.48g protein (1 tbsp=29 calories)
Half & Half: 315 calories; 27.83g fat; 10.41g carbs; 7.16g protein (1tbsp=20 calories)
Whole milk: 146 calories; 7.93g fat; 11.03g carbs; 7.86g protein (1tbsp=9 calories)
2% milk: 122 calories; 4.81g fat; 11.42g carbs; 8.05g protein
1% milk: 102 calories; 2.37g fat; 12.18g carbs; 8.22g protein
Non-fat/skim milk: 85.8 calories; 0.4g fat; 11.9g carbs; 8.4g protein

Half And Half,Cream, Or Milk - What's In Your Coffee - And What's The Difference?

And yes, the carbs in milk are basically lactose sugar.
 
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I think the issue is that when people gave up whole milk products they were replaced mainly with low fat products that were flavored with added sugar to make them tastier. Example, children often drink chocolate milk, loaded with added sugar, rather than plain whole milk. Adults happily consume sugar laden fruit flavored low fat yogurt rather than whole milk plain yogurt. Sugar was and is used to replace the desirable qualities that naturally occurring fat adds to foods.


Sent from somewhere in the world with whatever device I can get my hands on.
 
Obviously, when you lower the fat content of milk, the other macros, carbs and protein, increase on a relative basis.

As for yogurt, it's almost impossible to find flavored yogurt in "full fat"; plain yogurt is still readily available. Funny how they remove the fat, drastically raise the sugar levels, and add some mystery chemicals to give it mouth feel, then promote is as "healthier"...
 
Obviously, when you lower the fat content of milk, the other macros, carbs and protein, increase on a relative basis.

As for yogurt, it's almost impossible to find flavored yogurt in "full fat"; plain yogurt is still readily available. Funny how they remove the fat, drastically raise the sugar levels, and add some mystery chemicals to give it mouth feel, then promote is as "healthier"...

Whole milk yogurt is available from places like Trader Joe's. Our local supermarket has some (but not a lot) in its 'health' food section right next to the free range eggs laid by vegetarian chickens who apparently don't eat any bugs while wandering the free range, and an organic, non GMO liquid made from milking soy beans. :confused:

It is a shame. I have eaten good whole milk plain yogurt (not the bitter nasty stuff sold in most supermarkets), and it has a delicious dairy flavor and wonderful mouth feel. Very yummy. :)
 
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FWIW, it's very easy and economical to make your own whole milk yogurt at home. Yogurt cheese, too. Very good stuff and you know exactly what goes into it.
 
FWIW, it's very easy and economical to make your own whole milk yogurt at home. Yogurt cheese, too. Very good stuff and you know exactly what goes into it.

+1 and creme fraiche. Couldn't be easier. I have a little styrofoam cooler that I pre-heat with water which does a completely adequate job of yogurt making.

(I make my own red wine vinegar, too).
 
? A looooooot? How do you figure that? There's no sugar added to skim milk. Though, eliminating the ~ 3.5% fat means everything else is 3.5% more (percentage multiple, not percentage points_ - so x1.035) to make up that volume.

According to this source for one:

Calories in Milk: A Nutritional Comparison of Milks With Different Percentages of Fat

About 11 gm sugar versus 12 gm. Not a looooooot, is it?

You'll note that I cited "fat-free DAIRY," not fat-free milk.

I do not drink dairy milk, period, as I mentioned in another post. Why? You said it: 11g of sugar per serving. 11g or 12g of sugar is "a looooooooot" of lactose sugar to take in in one small serving. It's why people who aren't 100% lactose intolerant, but are looking to reduce lactose intake to ease IBS or similar issues just don't drink milk! (This is me: I tolerate cottage cheese, aged cheeses, heavy cream... low lactose stuff... just fine).

Let's look at something I do eat:

4% (full fat) cottage cheese: 3g sugar
Fat-free cottage cheese: 7g sugar

That's 133% more sugar in the fat-free DAIRY product, and that 100g (roughly half-cup) serving makes up about 1/5th of your RDA of sugar (vs. less than 1/10th in the full fat).

And in my coffee - Heavy Whipping Cream: 0g carbs per tbsp

That accounts for all of my regular dairy intake!

Milk?

Skim: 12g per serving
Whole: 11g per serving
Unsweetened Almond Milk: 0g per serving (1g carb total)

I rest my case! :cool:
 
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And here's a random one I pulled up:

Shredded cheddar cheese (1 oz serving):

Fat free: 4g carb, 3g sugar
Full fat: 1g carb, 0g sugar

So it's not just ice cream and chocolate milk...
 
Salt, fat, sugar are what tend to make something taste good. If you remove all fat, you need to watch out for salt and sugar increases.
 
You'll note that I cited "fat-free DAIRY," not fat-free milk.

I do not drink dairy milk, period, ...

Well, milk is the first 'dairy product' that came to my mind, I do drink it (in small amounts), so that's why I listed it.

I agree somewhat though - often times, sugar and/or thickeners are added to 'low fat' products (of all types, not just dairy) to make them more palatable to some consumers. I just don't think it is as universal as you indicate ...


Let's look at something I do eat:

4% (full fat) cottage cheese: 3g sugar
Fat-free cottage cheese: 7g sugar

....

OK, but then there is this:

According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, an 8-ounce serving of plain full-fat yogurt provides about 140 calories, 8 grams of protein, 7.4 grams of fat, 11 grams of carbohydrates and sugar, and 275 milligrams of calcium. ...

Eight ounces of nonfat, plain Greek yogurt has 130 calories, 23 grams of protein, no fat, 9 grams of carbohydrates and sugar, and 250 milligrams of calcium.

So there we have an example of a non-fat dairy product with fewer sugar/carbs gms than the full-fat version.

Milk?

Skim: 12g per serving
Whole: 11g per serving
Unsweetened Almond Milk: 0g per serving (1g carb total)

I rest my case! :cool:

There is no 'case' to be 'rested'. I think the point is one needs to read the labels, generalities won't always cut it.

And Almond Milk isn't a dairy product - it's not really relevant to your statement about "Dairy Products'. But it's still a good point separate from that, and I'm going to look into replacing the milk I do use (not a lot really, a quart is rarely finished around here before it goes bad) with unsweetened Almond Milk - so thanks for pointing that out!


milkfat, which is naturally sweet.

I guess I've never heard of milkfat described as 'sweet'? I find the difference between whole milk and skim milk to be about 'richness' and 'mouthfeel' and a 'fuller' flavor. But as has been pointed out, skim milk is only marginally higher in lactose (and everything else), not because any sugar was added, but because with ~ 3.5% less fat, everything else has to increase by 1.035x to make up the lost volume.

The 'sweet' descriptor in butter is only to differentiate the 'sweet cream' that is used, from 'sour cream'. Though I never heard of butter made from sour cream, I guess it's just tradition?

No real 'argument' from me, I just like accuracy, especially with all the unknowns in food/health.

-ERD50
 
Salt, fat, sugar are what tend to make something taste good. If you remove all fat, you need to watch out for salt and sugar increases.


I watched an interesting documentary not too long ago and one of the things they demonstrated was adding snacks to a cage with a mouse. With an all sugar or all fat snack the mice would eat a little but mostly eat their regular food. However when they added a snack such as cheesecake into the cages the mice couldn't resist and kept snacking on it regularly and soon became obese. They did a brief test on the streets of NYC and London handing out free donuts from a tray that held plain glazed donuts, and a selection of fancy donuts (e.g. cream filled, iced on top). Overwhelmingly the plain glazed were the most popular.

Just like the cheesecake in the mouse cages, plained glazed donuts have a 50/50 ratio of fat to sugar and manufacturers know that this combination in foods is the most popular mix.
 
The elephant in the room in the full-fat versus low-fat issue is that we were told, or given the impression, that the low-fat product was 'better' for us regardless of the sugar content. Here's an example"
Apr 28 2010 5:47pm
Until recently, Cocoa Puffs enjoyed the endorsement of the American Heart Association (AHA) as a heart-healthy food.
Is Cocoa Puffs no longer heart healthy? - Wellsphere

Ok, it's not yogurt or soft drinks, but is is an example of how not having fat was misrepresented, in my opinion.
 
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Salt, fat, sugar are what tend to make something taste good. If you remove all fat, you need to watch out for salt and sugar increases.

A very popular flavor today for those of us who enjoy an infrequent sweet treat is salted caramel. Now we know why it is so popular!
 
I watched an interesting documentary not too long ago and one of the things they demonstrated was adding snacks to a cage with a mouse. With an all sugar or all fat snack the mice would eat a little but mostly eat their regular food. However when they added a snack such as cheesecake into the cages the mice couldn't resist and kept snacking on it regularly and soon became obese. They did a brief test on the streets of NYC and London handing out free donuts from a tray that held plain glazed donuts, and a selection of fancy donuts (e.g. cream filled, iced on top). Overwhelmingly the plain glazed were the most popular.

Just like the cheesecake in the mouse cages, plained glazed donuts have a 50/50 ratio of fat to sugar and manufacturers know that this combination in foods is the most popular mix.


That's me. I'm the mouse and the house is the cage... When those things are brought into my cage I snack on it until it's gone. If I could buy it and spread out the period over a length of time that would be fine, but it doesn't happen. So I don't buy it, well most of the time.....


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The elephant in the room in the full-fat versus low-fat issue is that we were told, or given the impression, that the low-fat product was 'better' for us regardless of the sugar content. ...

Ok, it's not yogurt or soft drinks, but is is an example of how not having fat was misrepresented, in my opinion.

Agreed. It frustrates me & DW - she works at a school, and they were trying to mandate that any snacks brought in for birthdays, etc, had to be 'healthy'. DW said people bring in super-processed stuff labeled 'no/low fat' and 'no/low sugar'. Now, who's to say the other stuff they put in is better/worse for us than whatever sugar/fat they are replacing?

And get a grip - it's a snack, not an everyday thing. Far more important what is eaten everyday - focus on that. And physical activity.

-ERD50
 
Of the four parties with an interest who might be able to influence outcomes, food manufacturers/providers, policy makers/academics, media and individuals, I'm convinced only the latter will ever reduce the incidence rates for obesity, diabetes or any other food related health issues.

Imagine if more and more people actually educated themselves (not just reading the marketing garbage on package fronts) on food choices AND acted accordingly?
 
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Well, milk is the first 'dairy product' that came to my mind, I do drink it (in small amounts), so that's why I listed it.

I agree somewhat though - often times, sugar and/or thickeners are added to 'low fat' products (of all types, not just dairy) to make them more palatable to some consumers. I just don't think it is as universal as you indicate ...




OK, but then there is this:



So there we have an example of a non-fat dairy product with fewer sugar/carbs gms than the full-fat version.



There is no 'case' to be 'rested'. I think the point is one needs to read the labels, generalities won't always cut it.

And Almond Milk isn't a dairy product - it's not really relevant to your statement about "Dairy Products'. But it's still a good point separate from that, and I'm going to look into replacing the milk I do use (not a lot really, a quart is rarely finished around here before it goes bad) with unsweetened Almond Milk - so thanks for pointing that out!




I guess I've never heard of milkfat described as 'sweet'? I find the difference between whole milk and skim milk to be about 'richness' and 'mouthfeel' and a 'fuller' flavor. But as has been pointed out, skim milk is only marginally higher in lactose (and everything else), not because any sugar was added, but because with ~ 3.5% less fat, everything else has to increase by 1.035x to make up the lost volume.

The 'sweet' descriptor in butter is only to differentiate the 'sweet cream' that is used, from 'sour cream'. Though I never heard of butter made from sour cream, I guess it's just tradition?

No real 'argument' from me, I just like accuracy, especially with all the unknowns in food/health.

-ERD50


I agree: read labels. All of that info except the milk - presented by another poster - was straight out of my fridge, and read directly off the labels.

WRT almond milk: sure it is. You brought milk into the conversation when I had expressly said previously that I don't drink milk. I just told you why... Others also discussed regular vs. alternative milk products, the largest reason being that coconut milk and almond milk are sugar and lactose free in their unsweetened forms. Very germane to this topic.

And it is disingenuous to cite Greek yogurt vs. plain yogurt to support this argument you aren't trying to make (as you say!). They aren't the same thing - not even remotely as it pertains to sugar. Greek yogurt removes much of the whey and lactose via straining as it is made.

The article you apparently copied your yogurt stats from also plainly states that non-fat plain yogurt has more than 17 grams of carbs, a 50% increase from the full fat plain yogurt... But you conveniently left that part of the paragraph out, I see.

Compare apples to apples, please, particularly if you want to talk about how much you like accuracy!!

I am not just making this sugar stuff up on a whim. It is pretty widely known in the nutrition world that nonfat and lowfat dairy products have more sugar than their full fat brethren.
 
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I agree: read labels. All of that info except the milk - presented by another poster - was straight out of my fridge, and read directly off the labels.

WRT almond milk: sure it is. You brought milk into the conversation when I had expressly said previously that I don't drink milk.

Maybe you said that in an earlier post? I was just responding to your statement in the context of the post it was in, this thread is getting long, I may not recall every word and who said it.

Regardless, it was just that you made a pretty broad-brush statement. Whether you drink milk or not really doesn't change the statement. I was just trying to stick to the point we do agree on - read the labels.

I understand your other point - some of the non-sweetened, non-dairy 'milks' have low/no sugar, compared to relatively high sugar levels in all dairy milk. But almond milk and dairy milk certainly are not 'apples-apples'. I'd certainly say they are less alike than regular yogurt and Greek yogurt are to each other.

And it is disingenuous to cite Greek yogurt vs. plain yogurt to support this argument you aren't trying to make (as you say!). They aren't the same thing - not even remotely as it pertains to sugar. Greek yogurt removes much of the whey and lactose via straining as it is made.

The article you apparently copied your yogurt stats from also plainly states that non-fat plain yogurt has more than 17 grams of carbs, a 50% increase from the full fat plain yogurt... But you conveniently left that part of the paragraph out, I see.

I left that out for two reasons (and it wasn't 'convenient', it took extra work! ;) ). Here's the snipped part:

The same serving size of nonfat yogurt contains about 130 calories, 13 grams of protein, 0.4 grams of fat, 17.4 grams of carbohydrates and sugar, and 450 milligrams of calcium.

Notice they left the word 'plain' out of that? It's easy to miss, but I see you mentioned 'plain' in your paraphrase. But they included 'plain' in each of the others. So maybe that was a flavored or fruit-filled yogurt? So it may not be apples-apples, or it might be 'plain' to 'apples'? ;) That is why I chose the Greek yogurt, they both said 'plain' so I figured that might be more apples-apples.

And second, to reinforce that you need to read the labels, just going by one or the other descriptor may not be enough. When you are in the store, the full versus low/no fat might be two different brands/types, so... read the label.


I am not just making this sugar stuff up on a whim. It is pretty widely known in the nutrition world that nonfat and lowfat dairy products have more sugar than their full fat brethren.

In some cases yes, in some cases no. Like we both agree... read the labels. It's not always the case.


Back to Almond Milk - does anyone make their own? I see it takes an overnight (24 hour?) soak, so I couldn't just whip some up on a whim. But we always have almonds on hand, and it might be nice to make just enough for a week if I feel like having cereal or oatmeal that week.


-ERD50
 
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Fair enough! Options abound to reduce sugar... And I would be very interested in someone's idea /process for making almond milk. I eat prodigious amounts of raw almonds (well, a handful a day), so that could be cool to try. Almond butter, too. I can get my hands on lbs of raw bulk almonds at a local store.

Greek yogurt is certainly a better option for most people than plain nonfat yogurt due to the removal of most of the lactose. No arguing that. And agree that almond/coconut milk is not close to dairy, but I view it as a pn acceptable substitute given I don't drink it by the glass anyway!

Labels are interesting. A lot of people could learn a lot about food if they really understood the USDA/FDA rules on labeling (such as what is required to call your product organic, grass fed, gluten free, and other stuff like a fruit drink vs. fruit juice or cheese product vs. cheese food vs. cheese). There are myriad ways companies try to hornswaggle us into thinking their food is good for you (gluten-free processed meat anyone?)...

As I mentioned a few posts back, the best bet for avoiding sugar and other "evils" is to simply avoid packaged foods. Saves you from having to read a lot of labels too!!
 
Who knew sugar was such a a hot topic.

All things in moderation seems to apply to all items and over time. YMMV
 
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