anyone know where the market will hit bottom?

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My business has a fair amount of China supply chain impact. We have seen the suppliers there starting back, but the impact for our manufacturing will be in the next weeks. That said, depending on how fast they ramp, it may be pretty limited. We always hedge somewhat with inventory on this long supply chain items.

I went in a little yesterday with IVV, and if it dips again next week, will go in some more. Still have 3-5 years so I am thinking/hoping this is great buy-in opportunity.
 
When/if this all subsides, there will/should, Inshallah, be substantial pent up demand.

Only for some things.
I'm not going to go eat at restaurants at 2x the normal rate, it's just a missed opportunity.
Movie theaters, will simply miss selling out to crowds for the next hot movie (if there is one) in the next couple/few months, then the movie comes out on disk/netflix and it missed the theaters.

Same with some consumer things, Apple fears people who were going to buy the phone, will have their hot hearts desire cool down as they are forced to wait a couple of months.
 
Me personally - I'm neither doing my Roth conversion nor buying the dip until the: "It's just the flu, brah..." narrative stops.

I cannot pick it either, but I'll break it up into chunks, as 15% off is good, so I'm going to do about 1/5 of the conversion.
Then if market goes up, I'll wait, if it goes down another 10-15% I'll do more.
 
I just sold 1/2 of my put contracts on CCL, July 37.5. They have quadrupled since I bought them more than 2 weeks ago. The remaining contracts, I will keep to see what happens, but even if CCL goes back up and the options become worthless, I already recover the cost of the whole lot, plus a 100% return.

Not a lot of money here. If I sold all of these contracts now, the gain would still be 1% of what I "lost" on the whole portfolio so far. It's play money.


PS. This is the 1st time I bought puts like this. My few earlier attempts with buying bear ETFs did not work out well. :) But that was also play money.

Heh, was I the one that "talked" you into buying the CCL puts? Very sorry if I took you down the dark path, although I rarely buy puts myself...to hard to time and you can't just wait things out.

I think overall on here we (people on the forum here) were pretty on top of things as to how the virus was going to hit the market. We didn't panic sell or make a ton of money on puts, but I think in general people got cautious and hopefully at least managed to put a bandaid on some of the financial pain. I was sounding my alarm bells a little early (which is why I started to doubt myself as the market kept climbing two weeks ago).

I really do think we fall to something around 19,000 on the DOW and 2400 on the S&P500. I think it will be choppy though and there will be days where the market goes up 3% and we will think it is over. I will probably stay cash over weekends and swing trade during the week in an attempt to make money either direction the market goes.
 
Reply hazy, try again

Easy peasy: The market will hit bottom when the first derivative is zero and the second derivative is positive.
 
I certainly hope you're wrong on your predictions.... I want buying opportunity, but not at that pain level.

It isn't *that* bad. I bet it would be pretty V-shaped...might not even touch 19,000 but for a machine trading microsecond.

Just climb in the attic, dust off the DOW 20,000 hat you stored under grandma's knit blanket that smells too much like moth balls to use, and set aside a bit of cash to buy.
 
I'm not going to go eat at restaurants at 2x the normal rate, it's just a missed opportunity.
Movie theaters, will simply miss selling out to crowds .

Good points.....not frequenting restaurants/movie theaters, (or investing in same), I tend to get a little myopic regarding some areas.
 
Easy peasy: The market will hit bottom when the first derivative is zero and the second derivative is positive.

Mathematically correct.

The problem is that the above condition frequently happens intraday. :cool:.

I have read that good day traders can make a lot of money with this info, but I myself have not had the pleasure of knowing one. They would not share with me their knowledge or skill anyway.
 
It isn't *that* bad. I bet it would be pretty V-shaped...might not even touch 19,000 but for a machine trading microsecond.

Just climb in the attic, dust off the DOW 20,000 hat you stored under grandma's knit blanket that smells too much like moth balls to use, and set aside a bit of cash to buy.

Why do you think that? This is a pricking of an obvious bubble, which to be honest I thought had another year until it popped. Should have paid far more heed when you bought the puts, your economic sense and timing are excellent. Thank goodness my valuation already had my holdings at my minimum 25% but I sure wish I held 1% puts instead of calls!

In order to keep the economy going in good times the Central Banks have held interest rates to the lowest levels in the history of mankind, in an effort to avoid any sustained economic slowdown. The result is the highest corporate debt load in the history of the United States as measured against GDP, which if you are to believe the bond market, is about to decline.

I took the orderly speed of the decline to indicate there is not a large amount of funds available on the bid curve of most stocks to take the small amount of sales, as you indicated that was not panic selling. As a point the TRIN never got above 1 on any day despite the fastest decline from a stock market top in the history of investing. World record low interest rates and world record declines without any panic is not the type of market I like.

Central banks have spent the last 10 years driving the finances low in order to stimulate demand, but this is a shock that is suppressing demand and is going to put pressure on many marginal companies, which could have a cascading effect. TESLA going parabolic is I think the definitive marker of the top of this market. The FED was already having trouble keeping the party going with last years liquidity squeeze in September. This inflection will hurt far worse than that so I think it will be at least an equal 18 months to 2 years in order for the pain to be cleared out, now that the pain has begun.

But if you feel there will be a V recovery I would like to understand why that would be, in a environment of reduction of physical demand of goods. Oil has already been presaging this move.

Small example, there are literally thousand more, the airlines are all going to take a big financial hit on air travel, resulting in deferred capital and cancelled aircraft orders. Boeing is already borrowing to pay it's dividend, an incredibly stupid decision, airplane cancellations will drastically reduce it's orders and result in a multitude of smaller supplier companies, which have debt financed themselves in the Boeing boom also cutting back. I do not see this issue as a V bounce back but a 18 months to 3 years wait to return to previous production levels.

I am also expect precious metals to decline as Central banks, which have been buying record amounts of gold, will probably need to sell in order to shore up their financial deficits, especially China which has been the largest purchaser of gold over the last 10 years, in anticipation of a world move to SDR's.

But only time will tell.......
 
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Why do you think that? This is a pricking of an obvious bubble, which to be honest I thought had another year until it popped. Should have paid far more heed when you bought the puts, your economic sense and timing are excellent. Thank goodness my valuation already had my holdings at my minimum 25% but I sure wish I held 1% puts instead of calls!

In order to keep the economy going in good times the Central Banks have held interest rates to the lowest levels in the history of mankind, in an effort to avoid any sustained economic slowdown. The result is the highest corporate debt load in the history of the United States as measured against GDP, which if you are to believe the bond market, is about to decline.

I took the orderly speed of the decline to indicate there is not a large amount of funds available on the bid curve of most stocks to take the small amount of sales, as you indicated that was not panic selling. As a point the TRIN never got above 1 on any day despite the fastest decline from a stock market top in the history of investing. World record low interest rates and world record declines without any panic is not the type of market I like.

Central banks have spent the last 10 years driving the finances low in order to stimulate demand, but this is a shock that is suppressing demand and is going to put pressure on many marginal companies, which could have a cascading effect. TESLA going parabolic is I think the definitive marker of the top of this market. The FED was already having trouble keeping the party going with last years liquidity squeeze in September. This inflection will hurt far worse than that so I think it will be at least an equal 18 months to 2 years in order for the pain to be cleared out, now that the pain has begun.

But if you feel there will be a V recovery I would like to understand why that would be, in a environment of reduction of physical demand of goods. Oil has already been presaging this move.

Small example, there are literally thousand more, the airlines are all going to take a big financial hit on air travel, resulting in deferred capital and cancelled aircraft orders. Boeing is already borrowing to pay it's dividend, an incredibly stupid decision, airplane cancellations will drastically reduce it's orders and result in a multitude of smaller supplier companies, which have debt financed themselves in the Boeing boom also cutting back. I do not see this issue as a V bounce back but a 18 months to 3 years wait to return to previous production levels.

I am also expect precious metals to decline as Central banks, which have been buying record amounts of gold, will probably need to sell in order to shore up their financial deficits, especially China which has been the largest purchaser of gold over the last 10 years, in anticipation of a world move to SDR's.

But only time will tell.......

Interesting insight.
Thanks
 
It might not be a V recovery but there is a lot of money on the sidelines.

Also, it might not recover all the way to 29,000 again right away.

I am more interested in how biotech is going to play out and I think I will have to wait until the elections to know.
 
How would anyone know such a thing?
Obviously, no one knows. Cure could be found tomorrow or could find that many people are infectious carriers with o symptoms.

But like anything it can be fun/interesting to make predictions and see how it turns out. So I predicted a 20% loss. I don’t think this is a correction which means something specific, but a real loss of 20-25% from previous highs as this will trigger a short term recession.
 
Obviously, no one knows. Cure could be found tomorrow or could find that many people are infectious carriers with o symptoms.

But like anything it can be fun/interesting to make predictions and see how it turns out. So I predicted a 20% loss. I don’t think this is a correction which means something specific, but a real loss of 20-25% from previous highs as this will trigger a short term recession.

The two bolded parts above are not equally likely outcomes. I'd say the first scenario is 0%.
 
The two bolded parts above are not equally likely outcomes. I'd say the first scenario is 0%.

I agree. I've heard a vaccine isn't even expected for 1 year to 18 months at the earliest.

I agree that the market could go down another 20 to 25% from here with a recession likely. The S&P 500 is only down 12.8% from the closing high on the 19th, which is far short of the loss we saw in late 2018.
 
... could find that many people are infectious carriers with o symptoms...

The WHO report released yesterday has this to say regarding this aspect.

... Asymptomatic infection has been reported, but the majority of the relatively rare cases who are asymptomatic on the date of identification/report went on to develop disease. The proportion of truly asymptomatic infections is unclear but appears to be relatively rare and does not appear to be a major driver of transmission...
 
There are now two threads discussing the financial impact of the Covid-19 virus. To avoid duplication and confusion, let's continue the discussion in just one. You can find it here Coronavirus - Financial impacts
 
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