Fisher Investments

[Aerides]

Maybe people who have values that conflict with Fisher's can make their own decisions, that is all. If you find his comments "no big deal" that's your prerogative.

And the "every man says it" dismissal is not true. But that's not the point. A man in a leadership position just displayed how he values half the planet. Noted.

I would hope more of us are interested in reducing that sort of behavior, vs. excusing it just because it's currently common.

 

[OldShooter]

Wow. Graphic evidence that one should never be truly surprised at the diversity of values on display in this forum (or society for that matter).

Well, Fisher will be convicted of being politically incorrect by acclimation. No surprise there.

Will a lot of people overreact? Of course. That is the nature of our current times. People are being pilloried for things done and words said decades ago.

Do people select vendors and service providers based on the political correctness of the company owners? Some do. Witness Chick-fil-A and Hobby Lobby.

Do people attempt to limit free speech to being politically correct speech? Many do. Witness almost any college campus and the wide ranging attempts to turn social media companies into censors.

I'm with @senator. If I thought doing business with Fisher's company would make money for me I would do it. I don't and won't, but the decision has nothing to do with my values.

Hello, Porky!

 

[NW-Bound]

I received some mailings from his firm, but not lately.

I am surprised to learn that he is worth $3.8 billion, and his firm has more than $100B of AUM. Obviously, a lot of people send him their money.

From a Web site:

Individual investors make up 60% of Fisher Investments' client-base and pay as much as 1.5% in fees for the first $475,000 managed by the firm. This is the second highest fee it levies.

The highest is 1.6% for its global mid-cap institutional Frontier Markets Fund. The lowest fee is 0.28% for investors with assets above $45 million.

 

[bolt]

Maybe he should be thrown in jail? Or put out of business? Or fined $1B?

He said something that is said very often at the non-Billionaire level. Put a microphone in any high-school gym locker, blue collar jobsite or street corner where people just "hang out". You will hear worse.

If I would disassociate people that use that language, or worse, I would never have any tenants.

For years women wanted to be included in the "water cooler" and Locker room conversations. Once they were, they wanted to eliminate it.

But, but, butt, bigmouth buttheads are beautiful.
I Agee w/your insights & sentiments Senator.
Everyone wants to be "offended" .
Herd animals are heard animals.

Best wishes.....

 

[Dtail]

I'll still accept their calls and have fun with them and then let them sheepishly hang up.

 

[LRDave]

How far does it have to go before one would say: "Hold on there, that's too far..."?

 

[OldShooter]

Well, for me "too far" would be criminal activity or a conclusion that I could not trust a person or company. In either case, one strike and you're out.

Abysmal stupidity, such as Fisher apparently exhibited, might also be a factor. He should have known it was stupid to say what he did.

 

[kevdude]

How far does it have to go before one would say: "Hold on there, that's too far..."?

I think the ones that are truly offended will show their disdain by moving their money, if they are an existing customer. Or they will let the “representative” know next time they are contacted. Isn’t the free market a beautiful thing?

 

[REWahoo]

I think the ones that are truly offended will show their disdain by moving their money, if they are an existing customer.

Yep. Like these folks:

The state of Michigan has pulled its $600 million pension fund from wealth management firm Fisher Investments after the company’s founder and chairman made crude and sexually explicit comments during a fireside chat at the Tiburon CEO Summit in San Francisco this week.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...ments-summit-loses-million-contract-backlash/

 

[OldShooter]

"The state of Michigan has pulled its $600 million pension fund from wealth management firm Fisher ... "

Yup. No surprise. Nobody panders to political correctness more than elected officials. Guaranteed no one even thought about whether this was a breach of fiduciary duty.

 

[VanWinkle]

No one mentioned that a private conversation was exposed to ridicule and cause monetary harm to another person. That is what bothers me the most, there is no trust and nothing is off limits. He made a stupid comment that shows he can be crude around other men. You can't fix stupid, but people try to fix it all the time.

 

[Potstickers]

"The state of Michigan has pulled its $600 million pension fund from wealth management firm Fisher ... "

Yup. No surprise. Nobody panders to political correctness more than elected officials. Guaranteed no one even thought about whether this was a breach of fiduciary duty.

Would you say the same if he'd made similar comments about people who were black or Jewish?

 

[Goldendoodlebug]

No one mentioned that a private conversation was exposed to ridicule and cause monetary harm to another person. That is what bothers me the most, there is no trust and nothing is off limits. He made a stupid comment that shows he can be crude around other men. You can't fix stupid, but people try to fix it all the time.

Does that mean only men were present?
That does not sound very egalitarian to me. If women were present, do you think they should be offended when discussed in demeaning and vulgar terms?

 

[ERD50]

Would you say the same if he'd made similar comments about people who were black or Jewish?

What he said was stupid (he should know better, even if he does feel that way), insensitive, and I would not have liked it if I attended that talk (but I didn't like Ken Fisher to begin with).

But if he was good at what he does, would I pull my business from him? Probably not. I can't go around and try to evaluate every business on what they may have said at some time. I recall hearing that one of the inventors of the transistor was a considered a racist, so don't use any modern devices? Or that Henry Ford was anti-Semitic, so don't buy a Ford? Where does this end?

If I followed this correctly, he was expressing the excitement of signing a new client with the excitement of a sexual experience. OK, weird comparison, but hey, it's not totally invalid, just very crude and out of place and totally inappropriate.

So I'm not sure what you even mean by "if he'd made similar comments about people who were black or Jewish?" I'm pretty sure someone could be excited about a sexual encounter with someone who is black or Jewish. Maybe not if they were racist/bigot?

And doesn't the article contradict itself?

Some other attendees have spoken out about Fisher's comments despite a non-disclosure agreement they signed in order to attend the event, ...

Fisher's remarks in a public forum highlight the intense sexism women often face in the investment business

I've signed non-disclosed agreements before, and it was clear that was not a "public event". How could it be a "public forum" if you signed NDA's?

I'm not excusing his comments, they were out of line. But I'm not willing to get on some high horse about it, let the chips fall where they may.

I wonder if some of these people would feel the same if some negative things were discovered about some of their heroes? Do we reject all the good someone may have done, just because they were evil in some other area of their lives? Glass houses and all.

I'm surprised to find I'm pretty much in agreement with poster Senator!


-ERD50

 

[ERD50]

Does that mean only men were present?
That does not sound very egalitarian to me. If women were present, do you think they should be offended when discussed in demeaning and vulgar terms?

Catching up here. According to the report, there were women in the audience.

(from the article) ... Robasciotti estimated that she was about one of 15 women out of roughly 220 attendees.

While that makes it even stupider on his part, it would be just as bad, maybe even worse, IMO, in a room full of men. That doesn't really change the crassness of it.

Perhaps you are showing some gender bias yourself? You know, I can be offended by what a man says about women, and I'm offended by this. You don't have to be female to find this offensive.

-ERD50

 

[VanWinkle]

Catching up here. According to the report, there were women in the audience.




While that makes it even stupider on his part, it would be just as bad, maybe even worse, IMO, in a room full of men. That doesn't really change the crassness of it.

Perhaps you are showing some gender bias yourself? You know, I can be offended by what a man says about women, and I'm offended by this. You don't have to be female to find this offensive.

-ERD50

I agree that it would be offensive to both men and women. I was uninformed and unaware that women were present and heard the
remarks. He is even more stupid than I thought if that is the case.

VW

 

[VanWinkle]

Does that mean only men were present?
That does not sound very egalitarian to me. If women were present, do you think they should be offended when discussed in demeaning and vulgar terms?

My mistake, I assumed only men were present. Some men would be offended by this type of talk in a professional setting, including me. I think most women would be offended, although I know some that would not be offended.

 

[Aerides]

Whether men or women or a combo were in attendance should not make a difference...Whether NDA's were in effect or breached is not really something I care about. You say something out loud in a group beyond your spouse in 2019 and think it's private you are being silly.

If he didn't realize there were women there..........I mean what? what does that even mean? if that makes it ok then lolol.... and in a group of over 100 in 2019 why on earth would one think it's natural that no women are there?

I totally get the argument of those who want to be fully pragmatic and say heck, he's still making me money even if he's an ass, so be it. Values, choices, you do you.

 

[Senator]

"The state of Michigan has pulled its $600 million pension fund from wealth management firm Fisher ... "

Yup. No surprise. Nobody panders to political correctness more than elected officials. Guaranteed no one even thought about whether this was a breach of fiduciary duty.

No worries. If their new investments or manager doesn't perform, the Michigan taxpayers can make up the difference.

I'm surprised to find I'm pretty much in agreement with poster Senator!


-ERD50

Thank you. I am very much a realist, and a libertarian. Many people claim to be, but still want to change others.

 

[RobbieB]

Must have had a few too many cognacs.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

I'm a woman in finance. I'm pretty hard to offend, (been in finance awhile- not the first time I have heard this sort of thing) but this incident would have done it. I know lots of tough-as-nails women. Most of them would have been offended, but few would make an issue of it. Keeping your job is easier if you don't.

My mistake, I assumed only men were present. Some men would be offended by this type of talk in a professional setting, including me. I think most women would be offended, although I know some that would not be offended.

 

[Goldendoodlebug]

Catching up here. According to the report, there were women in the audience.









While that makes it even stupider on his part, it would be just as bad, maybe even worse, IMO, in a room full of men. That doesn't really change the crassness of it.



Perhaps you are showing some gender bias yourself? You know, I can be offended by what a man says about women, and I'm offended by this. You don't have to be female to find this offensive.



-ERD50

I was referencing the comment above by vanwinkle who said Fischer made crude comments in a room full of men.

I don’t know Fischer and probably wouldn’t stop using his products based on one comment, but I do think it’s good such offensive comments are becoming unacceptable.

 

[marko]

The curse of being human is that good, sensitive, thoughtful people can say and do hurtful, insensitive things from time to time. I strive to be a good person and most people would say that I am but I've said and done some incredibly stupid, insensitive things in my lifetime; haven't we all been there at some point in our lives?

The curse of our society today is that we're prone, even eager, to wiping out 35 years of good deeds, good works and thoughtfulness --even destroy a career-- of genuinely good people because of one moment of human stupidity, thoughtlessness or simple poor phrasing. It reminds me of 2nd grade where there was always one kid who'd run up to teacher and say "Jimmy said bad word, teacher" and the whole class would chorus with "unnh, unnhh, shame on you!!" Seems that everyone in our society today is just itching to be offended.

C'mon, we've all done and said stupid, insensitive, hurtful things....I'm guilty of some whoppers. I don't know anything about the man but I won't cast the first stone.

 

[BeachOrCity]

Take the subject of the crude comments out of it and you have someone who simply doesn’t respect his clients and who ignores his fiduciary responsibility to act in his clients interests and put those interests above his own.

So no I wouldn’t invest with him even if I was ok with aum fees.

 

[marko]

and you got all that from seeing his crude comment? or do you have other information?

Take the subject of the crude comments out of it and you have someone who simply doesn’t respect his clients and who ignores his fiduciary responsibility to act in his clients interests and put those interests above his own.

So no I wouldn’t invest with him even if I was ok with aum fees.