Has Vanguard Lost its way?

[tulak]

My two siblings and I inherited an IRA after my mom passed away a decade ago. This was at Vanguard and they handled splitting the IRA into three separate inherited IRAs without any issues. So sometimes they do get it right.

Sorry you had issues with this. It’s always pain when you have to deal with extra stuff regardless of where it happens. I don’t think any of these places are without flaws and sometimes you get unlucky.

I’ve been with Vanguard for a long time. I have no reason to leave, but for DS/DD, I’m setting up them with Fidelity since they offer more services. I’m also at Fidelity and use them for accounts that have more churn (HSA, cash management and such).

 

[cj1717]

I've been with Vanguard 40 plus years (When every transaction required a phone call).

Vanguard has DEFINITELY declined in customer service, Especially since Jack died.

 

[ShadowBloom]

I needed to ask Vanguard a question related to transferring an IRA to them. After waiting on hold more more than 30 minutes, the rep told me I needed to talk to a specialist; he transferred me to a line where the estimated hold time was 48 minutes. I hung up and will be transferring the funds to Fidelity, where the online instructions didn't create any question at all. I've been generally happy at Vanguard for around 30 years, but I've experienced several other instances of poor support and bugs lately and may move more than just this one IRA to another firm.

 

[Stashu]

The article at this CNBC link states a partial outage Vanguard is currently experiencing may cause people not to be able to make their RMDs on time. I am not at that age yet, but if that happened to me and I had to go through the hassle of requesting a penalty waiver from the IRS, that would be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for me.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/29/wha...ired-minimum-distribution-at-your-broker.html

 

[steelyman]

Pretty annoying for sure!

I wonder how many people take their RMDs early in the year (thereby avoiding the problem)?

 

[MichaelB]

I took Vanguard RMDs (for DMs account) a few days ago with no issue or difficulty. Checking in this morning, it looks like they changed the home page a bit but functionality is there and no problem with the RMDs.

 

[REWahoo]

I took Vanguard RMDs (for DMs account) a few days ago with no issue or difficulty. Checking in this morning, it looks like they changed the home page a bit but functionality is there and no problem with the RMDs.

+1

I had no issue withdrawing my final chunk of RMD money a few days ago.

 

[target2019]

Each institution will have planned and un-planned maintenance of their systems. Most of the un-planned outages escape our knowledge.

 

[MRG]

Each institution will have planned and un-planned maintenance of their systems. Most of the un-planned outages escape our knowledge.

+1
Worked on many unplanned outages and other than one really big one nobody in the public knew. There were multiple times regulators were involved but public perception was there's no problem at XYZ insitution.

 

[Gumby]

I had a problem at Vanguard either last year or the year before. They did my mutual fund purchase at the price from the day before instead of the price at market close on the day I entered the order (it was a down day). It was caused by a computer outage they had that day which did not properly update closing prices. I called them and let them know and they fixed it a day or two later. I figure these things occasionally happen everywhere. As long as they fix it, I'm fine.

 

[Major Tom]

The article at this CNBC link states a partial outage Vanguard is currently experiencing may cause people not to be able to make their RMDs on time. I am not at that age yet, but if that happened to me and I had to go through the hassle of requesting a penalty waiver from the IRS, that would be the straw that breaks the camel’s back for me.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/29/wha...ired-minimum-distribution-at-your-broker.html

Every year, I sell the required amount of one of my funds to generate living expenses for the coming year (not old enough for RMD's yet). I do this at the very end of the year. I performed the transaction yesterday with no difficulty, and it shows as completed on my account this morning.

I don't rely on Vanguard for advice. Hopefully, I will never need anything too taxing from them (pun not intended!)

 

[Surewhitey]

I've done 2 different things that required a little help. Transfer of an old 401k to a TIRA... seamlessly done.

Secondly, opened a SEP 401K. Same great, quick service and followed by a document needed for beneficiary.

I'm not in love with the website, but I'm really looking for something to complain about... Pretty self-sufficient for transactions.

 

[pb4uski]

Bumping old thread. As of today for the first time in decades, we have nothing at Vanguard. Problem was a noticable decay in customer service and hassles.

One example, is that my Mom had mutual fund tIRA and Roth IRA and both were linked to her checking account. We converted them to brokerage accounts as Vanguard wanted us to. Now, they insist on a new form with notarized signatures to link her checking account to the new brokerage tIRA and Roth IRA. I say, but it worked before so you must have the authorization forms that you need, but they say no that they need new ones. So when I did her RMD this year I had to have a check mailed to her.

Anyway, too many hassles and a noticable decline in service. We are out.

 

[JoeWras]

I've been doing a lot of work on our Fidelity account. What a great interface. Everything you want right there on your "Positions" page, including gain/loss info.

Then I go to Vanguard and am just flummoxed by the mess they made out of the UI. What a disaster.

Given this and a few other things, we're transitioning quite a bit to Fidelity next year, after the year end rush is over. I expect we'll keep our mutual funds we bought in the early 2000s. They are highly appreciated and donate easily to our Vanguard Charitable fund. Everything else will get moved.

It's a darn shame. I can't remember this kind of dramatic backwards change in a user interface on any product I use. And although my phone interactions last year were OK with Vanguard (transferring out an old IRA), what I'm reading from others' experiences is concerning.

 

[tulak]

I had some issues with Vanguard earlier in the year, but nothing recently. I don’t do much there, except buy the occasional T-Bill which works fine. Unless I run into issues, I won’t leave. I prefer Mutual Funds over ETFs and their MM fund is better than the competitors. Good enough reason to stay, at least for now.

 

[Rianne]

We've been with VG for over 30 years. No issues, so far. That doesn't mean there won't be in the future. If there's a long wait, they give the option of a callback with x minutes which has always worked out. I like the bond desk, very helpful. Customer service has been fine.

Regarding customer service, a lot of professional services are running into staffing issues. We had a meeting with our accountant yesterday. They have a large presence in our area. We've used them for years, a bit expensive but great service. They are no longer taking new clients. And told us many of the big firms are turning away new clients. The qualified staff just isn't there. He said since Covid, a lot has changed.

 

[RetMD21]

Bumping old thread. As of today for the first time in decades, we have nothing at Vanguard. Problem was a noticable decay in customer service and hassles.

One example, is that my Mom had mutual fund tIRA and Roth IRA and both were linked to her checking account. We converted them to brokerage accounts as Vanguard wanted us to. Now, they insist on a new form with notarized signatures to link her checking account to the new brokerage tIRA and Roth IRA. I say, but it worked before so you must have the authorization forms that you need, but they say no that they need new ones. So when I did her RMD this year I had to have a check mailed to her.

Anyway, too many hassles and a noticable decline in service. We are out.

New account number, new authorization form

 

[MRG]

New account number, new authorization form

+1
As I understand the two systems are silos of information that don't touch. This is as it should be.

I worked on a conversion of a small bank's stock transfer system to one of Megacorps. What a joke. The history records were full of free form text that contained things like "account xxx was deleted and re-added before Joe left. He told me to do this ". My program didn't understand who Joe was, the incomplete data, or where Joe went to.. he probably left before the auditors showed up because the numbers were off. That's the kind of garbage that gets in systems without tight controls.

 

[W2R]

We've been with VG for over 30 years. No issues, so far. That doesn't mean there won't be in the future. If there's a long wait, they give the option of a callback with x minutes which has always worked out. I like the bond desk, very helpful. Customer service has been fine.

+1

I have always had my taxable accounts with Vanguard, and my TSP with the tsp.gov . I have never had any accounts with Schwab, Fido, or any of the others.

Vanguard was utterly ideal when I started investing with them, decades ago. My brother recommended them when I asked him where to invest as I prepared to do so for the first time outside of the TSP. I knew less than nothing at that time, and they were SO helpful in getting things set up. Then when Frank needed to do the same a few years later, I led him to Vanguard and his experience was the same.

Now that we have both been retired for 13+ years, everything we do with Vanguard has become pretty routine and we really don't need to call them for help any more.

So, maybe their phone help has gotten pretty bad, but we'd never know. They were everything one could want and more, back when we needed them.

I am and will always be solidly behind Vanguard and the bogleheads dot org, 100%, all the way. Others may differ due to different experiences with them, but not me.

 

[eboats]

When I was choosing a brokerage, I spent a good deal of time comparing Fidelity and Vanguard and decided to use both ( Vanguard for index funds for retirement and Fidelity for everything else ). I've been impressed with the people I've talked to at both places. Knowledgeable and helpful. Of course, Fidelity's website and tech is light years ahead of Vanguard, but for my buy/hold funds at Vanguard, I really don't need to use their website or customer service much anyway. If scaling back on their website tech is the price to pay for low cost funds and advisory services, then that's ok with me. Vanguard PAS is much less expensive than using Fidelity's wealth management advisors.

 

[foxfirev5]

My personal experience is that VG is great until you die. Estate stuff is a mess. And all they do is blame it on the state of PA. I've settled a few PA estates and if VG is not involved they were simple. On the other hand, I remember the hassles of an IRA rollover for DW. I guess their not that good after all.

 

[JoeWras]

My personal experience is that VG is great until you die. Estate stuff is a mess. And all they do is blame it on the state of PA. I've settled a few PA estates and if VG is not involved they were simple. On the other hand, I remember the hassles of an IRA rollover for DW. I guess their not that good after all.

A decade ago when my dad passed, I jumped the gun on liquidating the trust. I forgot to tell VG he had passed. This had a big impact on basis calculations.

I called them up and they immediately understood and pointed me to a form to handle it (adjust the basis and give a sworn reason why, along with the death certificate). I sent that in and it was handled smoothly. Just smooth as glass.

Today, you cannot find that form on their web site anymore. And you better hope you get the right person on the line to understand what you did and how to fix it.

On the good news front... I transferred my tIRA to Fidelity about 18 months ago. It was more than a transfer, it was an IRA to 401k roll. Vanguard understood what I wanted, got me the form, I could fill it out online, and they handled it perfectly.

My experience hasn't been doomy and gloomy yet. I do have more transfer work to do, but I will wait until next February or so. Now is a bad time to do anything the least bit complicated at any brokerage or bank.

 

[foxfirev5]

That's good to hear. I'm hoping our future family business with VG will work out. Anyway there is no way DM will go elsewhere.

 

[jazz4cash]

+1
As I understand the two systems are silos of information that don't touch. This is as it should be.

It does make me wonder why wouldn’t they have advised to setup new authorization when the new accounts were established. Seems like a reasonable thing to anticipate that client wants same features in the new account.

As for me I have become a Fido guy because megacorp chose them for 401k. I out DW’s rollover funds at Vanguard and it has met our needs pretty well. I really love the balance over time chart/table going back 10 years. I wish Fido had that. Now we are getting close I need to become more active but the UI is incredibly lacking. I keep saying I just need to get more familiar but frustration is setting in. No real problems, though.

 

[MRG]

It does make me wonder why wouldn’t they have advised to setup new authorization when the new accounts were established. Seems like a reasonable thing to anticipate that client wants same features in the new account.

As for me I have become a Fido guy because megacorp chose them for 401k. I out DW’s rollover funds at Vanguard and it has met our needs pretty well. I really love the balance over time chart/table going back 10 years. I wish Fido had that. Now we are getting close I need to become more active but the UI is incredibly lacking. I keep saying I just need to get more familiar but frustration is setting in. No real problems, though.

Given the number of optional things one can have hung off an account I can see why that would be unmanageable. Isn't it OUR account and don't WE have some responsibility?