Has Vanguard Lost its way?

[John Galt III]

Can't resist adding this anecdote about my Vanguard experience yesterday. I used to program foe online systems like Vanguard, so I have a personal interest. I had just logged off a session at Vanguard, checking my account. The an email came in from VG about a recent transaction ( I had not made any in my session). So I logged back in and got all sorts of scary screens saying I had $0.00 in my taxable brokerage account, and no orders pending. ( I was supposed to have 2 orders pending). I clicked around various screens, and it that amount of time, I had my taxable account back where it should be, and my orders showed up again. Scary! The transaction the email mentioned was actually one of my orders that they decided to execute before the actual settlement date, for some reason. It should not have zeroed out my account, though. Still happy with Vanguard so far, though, since their rates have been good.

 

[RetMD21]

It does make me wonder why wouldn’t they have advised to setup new authorization when the new accounts were established. Seems like a reasonable thing to anticipate that client wants same features in the new account.

That would make sense.

The death/transfer of account with Vanguard that I handled went off without a hitch.


I don't understand why Vanguard is eliminating or hiding pdf forms. Sure online is usually easier but if someone wants to download and complete a pdf it seems like it should be possible.

 

[JoeWras]

I don't understand why Vanguard is eliminating or hiding pdf forms. Sure online is usually easier but if someone wants to download and complete a pdf it seems like it should be possible.

I'm guessing they get forms filled with crap that need follow up. This probably causes a lot of customer satisfaction pain. (Just my guess.)

Their new mode is you have to call, explain what you want, then they drop a pointer to the form in your message box.

This isn't all bad, but it does require you getting someone to answer, and someone to give you a pointer to the right form. For difficult issues, this requires a skilled representative, not a boiler plate reader.

There's no more chance of just browsing forms and figuring things out yourself, or perhaps finding a few forms and learning what is possible, then calling to verify the correct one to use. Maybe people saw too much and tried to do bad or impossible stuff that became an admin headache.

 

[pb4uski]

Given the number of optional things one can have hung off an account I can see why that would be unmanageable. Isn't it OUR account and don't WE have some responsibility?

Not when one has had an account for years, Vanguard prods us to change from mutual fund accounts to brokerage accounts and we reluctantly concede to do so.

There is no reason why I shouldn't have the same exact functionality that I had before the conversion... IOW, all linked account linkages in the mutual fund platform should transfer to the brokerage account platform. They never disclosed that there would be additional paperwork that we would need to file with them and that it would need to be notarized... in the case of my Mom's accounts by a 92 yo woman who has difficulty signing her name these days.

If Vanguard had informed us of the need for additional forms we would have politefully declined the offer to convert to a brokerage account. They already had in their records forms for the linked bank accounts when they were set up for the mutual fund account. There was no need to require us to do it over again.

That reminds me... Mom has a tIRA and Roth IRA that I need to transfer to Schwab.

 

[MRG]

Not when one has had an account for years, Vanguard prods us to change from mutual fund accounts to brokerage accounts and we reluctantly concede to do so.



There is no reason why I shouldn't have the same exact functionality that I had before the conversion... IOW, all linked account linkages in the nutual fund platform should transfer to the brokerage account platform. They never disclosed that there would be additional paperwork that we would need to file with them and that it would need to be notarized... in the case of my Mom's accounts by a 92 yo woman who has difficulty signing her name these days.



If Vanguard had informed us of the need for additional forms we would have politefully declined the offer to convert to a brokerage account. They already had in their records forms for the linked bank accounts when they were set u for the brokerage account. There was no need to require us to do it over again.



That reminds me... Mom has a tIRA and Roth IRA that I need to transfer to Schwab.

Vanguard has the level of service that you describe, it's called PAS. If you had an account with any other fund company, sans AUM accounts, or high networth, you're not going to get that level of service.

Although it would be a cheap enhancement for them to send an automated correspondence encouraging folks to check their accounts post conversion.

 

[Major Tom]

I called VG yesterday, to inquire about a small discrepancy in the dollar value of about 25K of VTIAX that I sold. The actual dollar amount of the transaction was being reported as 2 separate figures in different parts of the site, with about a $91 difference between the two figures. The rep who I spoke with sounded distant and echoey, as if he was on a speakerphone in a large room, on his own. I mentioned it, and he said that he was wearing a headset, which I highly doubt. His manner was very casual. He didn't know why there was a discrepancy between the two figures as reported on the site. His only advice was to wait a few days. I also asked him about *Vanguard Voyager Services. I was under the impression that you need a million in Vanguard assets to have access to those services. He didn't know. I also asked him, if that was the case, what would happen if my assets went under the million mark. Did they take an average throughout the year, or was access to Voyager Services cut off the moment my VG assets went under a million? He didn't know the answer, but guessed that "they probably give you some slack". Seriously - that was his answer. He also said that (and I'm paraphrasing here), "They probably have some procedure that they follow".

The whole interaction was deeply unimpressive. He sounded like some middle-aged stoner who was still living in his parent's basement - and working from there.

I've been with Vanguard for something like 15 years (don't remember exactly how long). I'll probably stay with them, though I hope the customer service doesn't decline any more. Perhaps I was unlucky to get the one feller who didn't pay attention during his training. I sure hope so. On the plus side, their website is tastefully pretty, and the home page has pictures of nice-looking seniors who are quite radiant, and appear to be enjoying their lives. Who needs professional customer service when you've got nice stock photos to look at?


*For the record, I am not bothered about the supposed added value of Vanguard Voyager Services. I was just curious.

 

[JoeWras]

The whole interaction was deeply unimpressive. He sounded like some middle-aged stoner who was still living in his parent's basement - and working from there.

Glad to hear middle age stoners are finally re-joining the workforce. We got a labor shortage, we need them.

 

[RetMD21]

I called VG yesterday, to inquire about a small discrepancy in the dollar value of about 25K of VTIAX that I sold. The actual dollar amount of the transaction was being reported as 2 separate figures in different parts of the site, with about a $91 difference between the two figures.


*For the record, I am not bothered about the supposed added value of Vanguard Voyager Services. I was just curious.

It seems like the confirmation slip is definitive. Someone should be able to explain any discrepancy.

I don't see that going from Voyager to Voyager Select to Flagship gains you much.

 

[Another Reader]

If you are on the Titanic, are you better off in Voyager, Voyager Select, or Flagship class? It's not that bad yet, but since they lost a rollover of mine for several months a few years back, I have been putting more into Fidelity and Schwab.

Of couse, I still have money at T Rowe Price, so there's that... Just got hit with some large capital gains on the taxable side. And I'm down 26 percent for the year. I guess they can no longer find the right mixes for their funds and have to churn every year.

So there are worse places than Vanguard and tradeoffs to be considered.

 

[wanaberetiree]

I've moved almost all major assets from VG this year and plan to move all soon.

Yesterday I made a trade and could not locate capital gain/loss on it via the website. Called VG and the rep could not locate it for me either.

VG is really bad nowadays, unfortunately.

 

[wanaberetiree]

.... They have upgraded their site.

IMHO they downgraded the website

 

[Sunset]

IMHO they downgraded the website

+1

It's too spaced out, have to scroll, scroll , scroll and the nice menu is gone stuff hidden in the 3 vertical dots.

 

[Rianne]

A couple of weeks ago we sent a pension payout check to our tIRA at VG. It was a sizable check made out to the tIRA and megacorp could not do it any other way. That gave us the responsibility of mailing it in. DH sent it by snail mail (not registered, not overnight just in a normal envelope at the post office. He forgot to put a stamp on the envelope. Nonetheless, panic ensued. No, we absolutely freaked out. He went to the post office to no avail. They said it would sit somewhere for 2 weeks and then get sent back to us in some roundabout way.

We were going to call and cancel the check which would have kicked us into 2023. This may have changed the amount (not sure) b/c buyouts are sensitive to interest rates.

Long story short, VG accepted the envelope with no stamp on it and deposited it into our tIRA. I can't kiss them through the computer, but I told the VG agent I was going to cry. This was a $600K buyout. I don't care what anyone says about VG. We're loyal, long-term customers and will stay that way.

 

[wanaberetiree]

I don't care what anyone says about VG. We're loyal, long-term customers and will stay that way.

I am happy your ordeal had a happy end, but it has nothing to do with declining VG support, messed up trades, the website etc.

 

[Texas Proud]

The one thing that is keeping me at VG is their interest on cash...


But it looks like Fido is higher than I thought.... anybody know about Schwab?

 

[braumeister]

The one thing that is keeping me at VG is their interest on cash...

But it looks like Fido is higher than I thought.... anybody know about Schwab?

If you mean their MM rates, lately F and S have been extremely close to each other.

 

[wanaberetiree]

The one thing that is keeping me at VG is their interest on cash...


But it looks like Fido is higher than I thought.... anybody know about Schwab?

I am seeing 2.9512% on Schwab California Municipal Money Fund™ - Ultra Shares
(SCAXX)

 

[Rianne]

I am happy your ordeal had a happy end, but it has nothing to do with declining VG support, messed up trades, the website etc.

I have no issues with VG support, trades, or the website. It's all worked well for us. We sold all of our bond funds (no small task) and bought laddered CDs and treasuries. No issues. CS and the bond desk were very helpful. Their website is going through some changes. A bond desk CS agent asked me how they could make it more helpful regarding YTM, coupon payments into the settlement account, and date information. Keeping track of a long ladder is no small task either. The semi-annual and/or monthly payments vary with every bond. YTM and coupon amounts are varied and calculating what, when, and how you get those payments are unchartered territory for us. I want to keep track of what's going in and coming out, and what taxes we're paying so we can predict from year to year how to prepay those taxes so as to not get penalized.

 

[Texas Proud]

If you mean their MM rates, lately F and S have been extremely close to each other.

I am seeing 2.9512% on Schwab California Municipal Money Fund™ - Ultra Shares
(SCAXX)

To be clear I meant free cash in the brokerage account... as long as you can have it go into a fund without doing anything I am good with that.

 

[wanaberetiree]

I am glad VG is working out for you.

I placed a trade against the so-called SeocID (lots) earlier this year over the phone and VG managed to mess it up and recorded against absolutely different lots.

It took me a week to get to the point where they understand what was going on, forced the to listen to the recording of the order (phone conversation), and then another month to actually fix it.

Do you call this a characteristic of a modern brokerage?

I don't!

 

[W2R]

I have no issues with VG support, trades, or the website. It's all worked well for us.

+1

The only complaint I ever had was when they forced/pushed me to switch to brokerage accounts a few years ago when I liked everything the way it was. But by now, they've made the interface pretty much the same (or else I got used to it?). But anyway, I have no issues and expect to stay with Vanguard for good. Love Vanguard, love their funds, love the way they leave me alone.

 

[MRG]

I am glad VG is working out for you.

I placed a trade against the so-called SeocID (lots) earlier this year over the phone and VG managed to mess it up and recorded against absolutely different lots.

It took me a week to get to the point where they understand what was going on, forced the to listen to the recording of the order (phone conversation), and then another month to actually fix it.

Do you call this a characteristic of a modern brokerage?

I don't!

Why don't you leave? Last I knew nobody's keeping your money hostige. Seems foolish to stay at a place where you are convinced they'll screw your transactions up.

 

[wanaberetiree]

Why don't you leave? Last I knew nobody's keeping your money hostige. Seems foolish to stay at a place where you are convinced they'll screw your transactions up.

I did !!!!
Cut about 80% of my assets from VG and will move the rest the next year.

 

[JoeWras]

The website changes pushed me over. I think they are a disaster. That's my opinion. A lot of things I relied on now don't exist (decent tight consolidated view) or are broken (portfolio analyzer using external data). I shall be moving 1/2 of my holdings to Fidelity this year 2023. Call it "service provider diversification." I'm leaving 1/2 at VG, my oldest holdings.

I don't know if they lost their way, but I don't want 100% of my assets at a service provider that has clearly taken steps backwards for the DYI customer.

 

[pdxgal]

+1

It's too spaced out, have to scroll, scroll , scroll and the nice menu is gone stuff hidden in the 3 vertical dots.

+1. FWIW I used to do user experience testing, and I'm doing that now with Vanguard and Fidelity.... attempting to accomplish the same tasks on each website and comparing results. Bought a CD ladder recently on Fidelity using their CD ladder tool. Easy-peasy! Tried on Vanguard and couldn't find if they even have a ladder tool. Of course one can do it manually on VG, but Fido makes it easy.

The Vanguard site has lots of white space and large graphics which look pretty, but don't help users accomplish their tasks. Fido's site is more information-dense and much more user-focused. IMO VG is still primarily product (fund) oriented as a culture. I'm sure their funds are fine, but now that I'm more actively managing my retirement finances I want a better consumer experience.