Nuclear Investing?

I'm in that business and would not recommend it as an investment. Way too much regulation and politics (but I repeat myself). Regarding the companies/concepts in the article:

-Hydrogen and fuel cells have been "almost here" for 20 years or more, and will probably be the same in 20 years (just like fusion power)
-The domestic uranium market is on life support due to lack of demand, regulations, and foreign uranium supplies. There is a price spike going on, but no reason to think it will last - US is shutting down reactors and not building new ones (well, 2 new reactors coming online after a dozen or so shut down recently).
-The other companies in the article were non-nuke and just as speculative (solar and wave energy)

So any investment in this stuff needs to be very long term, perhaps longer than one's investing horizon?
 
^^^ Uh oh. No nuke, no renewable energy. Does this mean fossil fuel lives on?
 
I believe solar will replace all other energy sources over time.


* The cost of solar is going down and down.
* It does not leak radiation like the quite expensive to run nuclear plants
* It does not pollute like the coal, gas and oil plants
* It does not explode now and then like hydrogen filling stations and production plants do
* It is not costly to maintain like wind power stations
* They can be located on roofs and be almost invisible unlike wind mills and nuclear plants
 
....7 nuclear companies that currently have active and optimistic plans for the future....

Any company should have an optimistic plan for the future. At least the plan they tell potential investors. But that doesn't mean the plan is realistic.

My opinion, nuclear is a horrible investment right now.
 
I believe solar will replace all other energy sources over time.


* The cost of solar is going down and down.
* It does not leak radiation like the quite expensive to run nuclear plants
* It does not pollute like the coal, gas and oil plants
* It does not explode now and then like hydrogen filling stations and production plants do
* It is not costly to maintain like wind power stations
* They can be located on roofs and be almost invisible unlike wind mills and nuclear plants


As long as you don't want to use any electricity when it is dark out! If I was going to play in the energy realm it would be a play on energy storage..once that nut is cracked sporadic renewables such as wind and solar become much more feasible without fossil fuel backup. The technologies are pretty interesting.
 
Georgia Power is building nuke plants and, as usual with this technology that was sold to Americans in the 50s as providing energy that “will be too cheap to meter”, they are way, way, way over budget. And this country still has no idea where to put the nuclear waste. Here in Minnesota, at our two nuke plants, it’s placed in casks alongside the Mississippi River, with millions of people and the Gulf of Mexico downstream. I would not put a nickel into that historic context of consistent financial, political and scientific miscalculation. Way too any liabilities.
 
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When they get that mess cleaned up in Fukushima, then you might want to evaluate whether or not you want to get into nuclear energy.
 
And this country still has no idea where to put the nuclear waste.

Yucca mountain in Nevada. But, like many things surrounding nuclear power it's controversial.

https://connectusfund.org/17-pros-and-cons-of-the-yucca-mountain-nuclear-waste-repository

The Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository is a deep geological repository for spent nuclear fuel and highly radioactive waste products generated in the United States. The site is adjacent to the Nevada Test Site in Nye County, NV which is about 80 miles northwest of Las Vegas. Approval for the project came from the 107th U.S. Congress in 2002, but federal funding for the site ended in 2011 with an amendment to the Depart of Defense and Full-Year Continuing Appropriations Act.


Without the Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository, there is no long-term storage site for high-level radioactive waste disposal. The government and American utilities currently use the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant in New Mexico to manage waste or have resorted to dry-cast storage on-site using steel and concrete casks.
 
As long as you don't want to use any electricity when it is dark out! If I was going to play in the energy realm it would be a play on energy storage..once that nut is cracked sporadic renewables such as wind and solar become much more feasible without fossil fuel backup. The technologies are pretty interesting.

Which storage technologies are you following? I do find them 'interesting', but appear to be pretty questionable in terms of economics and side effects for the foreseeable future.

-ERD50
 
A few years ago, Tesla made the news when it built the Hornsdale battery storage in Australia for the firm Neoen. The storage capacity was 194 MWh. The two companies are working together again to build a larger battery in Victoria with 450 MWh of storage.

The largest battery in the world is the Moss Landing project in Monterey California, being built by Vistra, LG, and Fluence. The immediate goal is 1,200 MWh, with plans to expand the capacity to 6,000 MWh.

How do the above numbers compare to the electricity usage by the US?

In 2020, with a reduction in usage caused by Covid, the US still used 3.8 trillion kWh. That's more than 10 billion kWh/day. It would take 1,700 plants of the 6,000 MWh capacity to store a day's worth of use.

PS. A capacity of 6,000 MWh is equivalent to 73,000 Tesla 3 Long Range batteries (82 kWh each).
 
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As long as you don't want to use any electricity when it is dark out! If I was going to play in the energy realm it would be a play on energy storage..once that nut is cracked sporadic renewables such as wind and solar become much more feasible without fossil fuel backup. The technologies are pretty interesting.


This will be solved by adding batteries to the grid. Like those gigantic ones that NW-Bound described. But also lot's of smaller batteries like the power packs you get if you install Tesla Solar roofs. And something in between. And with modern tech these will work together to balance usage locally and on the large scale.



The battery in Hornsdale NW-Bound mentioned was paid down in less that two years if my memory serves. Battery costs is coming down these days with new tech and materials combined with mass production effects.
 
I must admit I am curious.

Are those home storage batteries the ones made with lithium? That's the element that creates highly flammable hydrogen gas when it comes into contact with water. I don't think I would want that in my house.
 
I must admit I am curious.

Are those home storage batteries the ones made with lithium? That's the element that creates highly flammable hydrogen gas when it comes into contact with water. I don't think I would want that in my house.


I am no chemist. But it's the same battery as in this car driving in deep water:


 
This will be solved by adding batteries to the grid. Like those gigantic ones that NW-Bound described. But also lot's of smaller batteries like the power packs you get if you install Tesla Solar roofs. And something in between. And with modern tech these will work together to balance usage locally and on the large scale.



The battery in Hornsdale NW-Bound mentioned was paid down in less that two years if my memory serves. Battery costs is coming down these days with new tech and materials combined with mass production effects.

But you need to put some scale on that. Illinois has ~ 20 coal plants rated at an average of ~ 800MW. if we need to cover a 4 day shortfall, say solar/wind running at ~ 25%, that's 3 days equivalent we need from storage. So 72 hours * 800MW * 20 plants = 1,152,000 MWhrs. Relative to a 100 kWhr Tesla, that's like the battery capacity of 11,520,000 Teslas! Just for Illinois! Just for coal!

Now replace the NG turbines and the Nukes when they get decommissioned. Now replace those batteries after 15 years or so (so maybe almost another million per year for replacements at that point?).

Oh, and then charge all those electric cars! And no, the Teslas won't be the backup when bad weather for renewables is predicted - most of them will want to stock up and horde it - like we've seen.

It's a lot tougher to get 'payback' when some of it has to be on hand for the '100 year' events.

-ERD50
 
I must admit I am curious.

Are those home storage batteries the ones made with lithium? That's the element that creates highly flammable hydrogen gas when it comes into contact with water. I don't think I would want that in my house.

My parents house had a large , probably 300 gal fuel tank in the basement about 6 feet from the furnace. I'm glad it never leaked.

Lots of folks store 20-30 gals of gas in their car in the garage attached to the house without a second thought.

Life is just dangerous.
 
I believe solar will replace all other energy sources over time.


* The cost of solar is going down and down.
* It does not leak radiation like the quite expensive to run nuclear plants
* It does not pollute like the coal, gas and oil plants
* It does not explode now and then like hydrogen filling stations and production plants do
* It is not costly to maintain like wind power stations
* They can be located on roofs and be almost invisible unlike wind mills and nuclear plants

And the power generation could be very distributed , basically invulnerable to single point of failure like bombing.
 
Lithium batteries can be dangerous if abused. They are everywhere now though, in all cell phones, laptops, notebooks, cameras, etc...
 
My entire family worked in the power industry, including my father, two uncles, an aunt and both grandfathers. It's terribly disturbing to see our regional coal fired steam plants being shut down one by one because of politics. We have some new natural gas generations, however wind power is not an option with little wind here.

A few solar farms are being built where the steam plants were so they can use the existing distribution grid, however they're terribly expensive to build given the amounts of electricity are not nearly as strong. We are seeing huge expansions of companies like Google and Amazon that are also installing huge solar farms so they can be somewhat self sufficient on energy.

Our power company is presently operating 3 huge nuclear generation sites. One uncle was a Chief Power Dispatcher controlling the electrical grid of 5 states, and he was a big believer in nuclear power for reliable, stable power.

It's just a shame that the electrical industry cannot engineer and operate smaller, less complicated nuclear generator units When you lose a major generation facility, it places severe stress on the other generation sites. This has been seen in California & Texas when there was not enough reserve capacity to prevent brownouts.

My big question is where all the power is going to come from to power the batteries of Electrical Vehicles. If every house had EV's recharging in the middle of the night, a completely new local power grid would have to be built. Cities' wiring would be insufficient to handle the load--much less the power company's production capabilities.
And places like California have no new power sources on the horizon even.
 
My entire family worked in the power industry, including my father, two uncles, an aunt and both grandfathers. It's terribly disturbing to see our regional coal fired steam plants being shut down one by one because of politics. We have some new natural gas generations, however wind power is not an option with little wind here.

A few solar farms are being built where the steam plants were so they can use the existing distribution grid, however they're terribly expensive to build given the amounts of electricity are not nearly as strong. We are seeing huge expansions of companies like Google and Amazon that are also installing huge solar farms so they can be somewhat self sufficient on energy.

Our power company is presently operating 3 huge nuclear generation sites. One uncle was a Chief Power Dispatcher controlling the electrical grid of 5 states, and he was a big believer in nuclear power for reliable, stable power.

It's just a shame that the electrical industry cannot engineer and operate smaller, less complicated nuclear generator units When you lose a major generation facility, it places severe stress on the other generation sites. This has been seen in California & Texas when there was not enough reserve capacity to prevent brownouts.

My big question is where all the power is going to come from to power the batteries of Electrical Vehicles. If every house had EV's recharging in the middle of the night, a completely new local power grid would have to be built. Cities' wiring would be insufficient to handle the load--much less the power company's production capabilities.
And places like California have no new power sources on the horizon even.

Natural gas.

Utility here is wither shutting coal-burning power plants down or converting coal plants to natural gas as rapidly as practical...sadly, none are combined-cycle.

It's hardly politics...IIRC, coal plants can require several hundred workers versus a couple of dozen at a natural gas-fired power plant, plus there's no nasty coal ash disposal problem.
 
There are newer designs that are much more reliable, scalable and much safer. Comparing an old traditional design to these new ones would be like comparing passenger safety in a 1964 automobile to a modern car with multiple safety features designed into it.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/safer-nuclear-reactors-are-on-the-way/

Manufacturers such as Westinghouse Electric Company and Framatome are hastening development of so-called accident-tolerant fuels that are less likely to overheat—and if they do, will produce very little or no hydrogen.

My guess is that we will have multiple greener and less carbon intensive sources of power in the future depending on where we live and the demand for power. Will nuclear power be one of those sources? Time will tell.
 
Bill Gates owned Terra Power is building a new Gen IV Natrium rector for PacifiCorp, owned by Berkshire Hathaway in Wyoming. It’s a “demonstration” project which should generate 345 MWe and also provide addition energy storage which would be able to boost energy output to 500 MWe for about five hours.

No direct investing opportunities there, but if you B-H you’d have some investment in that.

More info https://www.terrapower.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/2021-Natrium_Technology.pdf
 
Right now, Europe is fretting about the low natural gas storage for the coming winter. There's a nat gas shortage all around the world, and the US does not have much excess to export.

China is running out of electricity, and some factories are reported to be shut down because of that. India is running out of coal to run its power plants.

It looks bleak.
 
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