What moves Bitcoin?

[ExFlyBoy5]

Unless you're in on the Dodge joke that Elon is perpetrating ("there's no such thing as intrinsic value, fundamentals don't matter, redditors of the world unite etc.") you should really not keep any money in that coin. Unlike his investment in bitcoin, Musk's Dodge tweets are just there to troll.

And that's why I call it my casino money. No matter the fundamentals, I made a 100% return in less than a week. And not to derail the thread, but fundamentals are well...crap these days when it come almost ALL ways to "invest" your money.

 

[Koolau]

This quote from John Oliver sums it up for me:


“Bitcoin is everything that I do not understand about money combined with everything that I do not understand about computers.”

Wow! What a summary of my feelings on Bitcoin. I've tried reading up on what it is, where it comes from, how it's traded, on and on. I finally just throw up my hands. I have a rule that I don't invest in anything I can't explain (with their understanding) to a person uneducated in the investment. That means there are rather few things I actually invest in. BUT I sleep well and I have "enough." YMMV

 

[dunkelblau]

Wow! What a summary of my feelings on Bitcoin. I've tried reading up on what it is, where it comes from, how it's traded, on and on. I finally just throw up my hands. I have a rule that I don't invest in anything I can't explain (with their understanding) to a person uneducated in the investment. That means there are rather few things I actually invest in. BUT I sleep well and I have "enough." YMMV

My dad was a gold bug, but he never bought physical gold, instead he bought and sold shares in gold mining companies.

I don't know what bitcoin is either, but I found I own shares in a couple of the companies that mine for it. I've noticed that the share prices of both companies seem to correlate fairly closely to the price of bitcoin, but the swings look larger (these shares move maybe 2-3x the changes in the bitcoin price on average over the past few months). So you don't actually have to know how to handle bitcoin to effectively invest in it. Just Google "bitcoin mining companies publicly traded" -- and if you do DD on these you'll have a great laugh.

 

[davebarnes]

When Venus is retrograde to Mercury.

 

[yakers]

How can I short Bitcoin?

 

[captain3d]

Never mind explaining bitcoin. Can someone explain what makes cash valuable? I have done lots of research trying to find out why the paper has value. But as far as I can tell it is backed by nothing and has no limit on how much can be created. What kind of greater fool would accept my paper? Oh well.

 

[RetiredAtThirty-eight]

Kelly my son who follows it closely thinks in the next few years it will be up a lot. However, when it’s high you have to cash out quickly as everyone is trying to and the price can go down quickly.

That's just volatility. Up and down. Down and up. The people who make a killing are those who hold assets that appreciate over the long-term, even if those assets have high volatility.

 

[Fermion]

That's just volatility. Up and down. Down and up. The people who make a killing are those who hold assets that appreciate over the long-term, even if those assets have high volatility.

Sort of like holding onto those confederate dollars or Weimar marks?

 

[RVplusDog]

How can I short Bitcoin?

The CME offers Bitcoin futures, if you want a pure play.

Otherwise you could short companies that hold a lot of it like MSTR, SQ, TSLA, PYPL, and others that come up.

You could also short crypto mining companies like MARA and RIOT.

Lastly, you could short the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC), which actually holds a variety of cryptocurrencies.

 

[Koolau]

Never mind explaining bitcoin. Can someone explain what makes cash valuable? I have done lots of research trying to find out why the paper has value. But as far as I can tell it is backed by nothing and has no limit on how much can be created. What kind of greater fool would accept my paper? Oh well.

As the saying goes "It works until it doesn't."

The official line is: "Backed by the full faith and credit of the USA." As long as you believe it, it works. YMMV

 

[Fermion]

As the saying goes "It works until it doesn't."

The official line is: "Backed by the full faith and credit of the USA." As long as you believe it, it works. YMMV

The US dollar is backed by a very large military, trillions of dollars in government land, and the general way of life in the USA. Life changes in a major way for everyone if the dollar collapses, but if bitcoin collapses only a few speculators lose out.

 

[yakers]

And the note “valid Legal tender”, must be accepted for business transactions and the ONLY way to pay taxes

 

[captain3d]

Too big to fail comes to mind for cash. And I think you can see some of that as Bitcoin gets bigger with more serious people being invested it its success.

 

[Onward]

There's something happenin' here. What it is ain't exactly clear.

 

[captain3d]

It is somewhere between a Gold like hedge against inflation (finite number of Bitcoin) and a disruptive technology (global currency and easy transfers)

 

[dixonge]

Never mind explaining bitcoin. Can someone explain what makes cash valuable? I have done lots of research trying to find out why the paper has value. But as far as I can tell it is backed by nothing and has no limit on how much can be created. What kind of greater fool would accept my paper? Oh well.

Like the song says...


"greenback, greenback dollar bill
Just a little piece of paper, coated with chlorophyll."

 

[captain3d]

Like the song says...
"greenback, greenback dollar bill
Just a little piece of paper, coated with chlorophyll."

A quick search suggests that single would have cost about $1 when release in 1957.

1957 $1 = 2021 $9.31

A good example in many ways. On the other hand I just listened to it on YouTube for free. Are we winning?

 

[cj1717]

I have been investing in Cryptocurrency this year and am now playing with "House Money" due to success.

I do NOT buy actual bitcoin, but invest in the fund BITW.

I am very happy with this fund and expect to continue.

Another reason for its success is the acceptance and endorsement of cryptocurrency by: Elon Musk, Paypal, Mastercard and now banking instittutions.

Many Gold Bugs are converting to Crypto as a better repository for wealth.

 

[captain3d]

Crypto 20 is another index fund as a token to be bought on crypto exchanges etc.

https://crypto20.com/en/
Autonomous 'token-as-a-fund'.
In 2017, our team successfully pioneered the first tokenized crypto-only index fund, which used the seed funding to buy the underlying crypto assets. There are no broker fees, no exit fees, no minimum investment and full control over your assets. Full blockchain transparency.

 

[yakers]

Crypto in tax protected or taxable account? How do you report sales gains? Does TurboTax download directly?

 

[CardsFan]

Crypto in tax protected or taxable account? How do you report sales gains? Does TurboTax download directly?

I do not own any Crypto, but just walked through TT for a first look.

With all the changes recently I did the full Q/A session.

There is a place where they ask if you own any Crypto's. I don't, so I did not go further.

Just FYI.

 

[mrfeh]

Crypto in tax protected or taxable account? How do you report sales gains? Does TurboTax download directly?

You report capital gains/losses just as you would for a stock transaction.

TT does not import this data. You need to keep track of this yourself, although there are web sites that can assist in the task.

 

[frayne]

I will be honest. I understand technology. I have a degree in computer science and worked in high tech for 26 years. But I do not understand how bitcoin derives any intrinsic value. Now I know that the ability to "print money" like the US government has is not intrinsic value, but I at least understand credit and the ability of a solvent government to guarantee that debt. I can not understand cryptocurrency. What guarantees the value of bitcoin? I don't get it.

Well said !

 

[RVplusDog]

I wouldn’t be surprised to see BTC hit 50k within the next 4 weeks or so. It seems to be more stable as the big companies buy and hold. Square, PayPal, Microstrategy, etc. I expect more corporations to add it to their balance sheets following in MSTR’s now-published open source documentation. Also, Visa’s planned cryptocurrency project/s should increase stability & acceptance.

Hmmm. Guess I was too conservative... so maybe 60k by EOM, 100k by EOY.

I have small positions in miners (MARA, RIOT), trusts (GBTC, may choose others), and associated companies (MSTR, TSLA, SQ, PYPL, etc). I’ll try to sell some more far OTM calls to continue lowering my net costs for these, and I expect some assignments as prices fluctuate beyond my expectations. Not sure how long I’ll play these: I expect the miners to continue diversification into other cryptos and I’d like to see MSTR move into blockchain tech as an adjunct to its AI offerings.

 

[PoorOldCountryBoy]

Just one month ago, the price was $10,000.... Today Less than $7,000.

There must be reasons. Seriously... in Vegas there is the "house".that eventually accounts for odds and limits.

Thoughts?

Sorry... missed the current thread on the subject. OK to delete.

Supply and demand.



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