A Second Vacation Home a Good Thing?

[kcowan]

Exactly. I think you will treat yourself to more "extravagances" as time goes by. But I agree that being perfectly happy on $25k a year gives anyone a leg up for early retirement.

(PS if you were living in Vancouver, the cost of accommodation and food makes $25k impossible. I think the same is true of Seattle, NYC and San Francisco, maybe even Hawaii but then a relocation presents a cost-saving opportunity after retirement.)

 

[ziggy29]

(PS if you were living in Vancouver, the cost of accommodation and food makes $25k impossible. I think the same is true of Seattle, NYC and San Francisco, maybe even Hawaii but then a relocation presents a cost-saving opportunity after retirement.)

Yeah, with a paid-off home and no debt, you can live on $25K in much of "flyover country," particularly if you have subsidized health insurance. No chance of that on the coasts.

 

[rescueme]

But do I have to brag about it?

I don't think anybody on this thread is "bragging" about anything. Each of us described what is important in our lives, and how we are persuing our dreams.

I just don't get the "message" as you or others are saying that anybody is trying to be better (e.g. bragging) than anybody else.

Hey, I don't have multiple "vacation homes" (heck, I don't even have one). But if others have this option and can afford it in their respective lives, what's wrong with that?

As for my wife/me? We're fortunate to be able to travel the world. So what? Others, I'm sure would not want to persue such travel and that's their option.

I would also say that it gives us a break of caring for our adult disabled "child" (who we are in contact with - and his care givers every day, regardless of where we are in the world). I doubt very much if anybody would say we are wrong in trying to get a little bit of joy out of life, based upon our "challange" of the last 40+ years.

My DW/me do not live on $25k a year. That's our option and due to living a strict LBYM lifestyle for many, many years.

If you have a problem with what I've posted, then it's your problem - not mine...

 

[IndependentlyPoor]

I guess this is a case of "different strokes for different folks", as the saying goes.

Agree 110% That extra 10% is for changes in one's own definition of what the good life is. I retired in 2004 after an ugly diagnosis. My first reaction was "there is no way in hell that I am going to work until I am too sick continue". My second reaction was "and there is no way that I am going to sit around and do nothing but raise pansies". (A good friend had just retired and was doing pretty much just that.) The idea of staying at home and watching soap operas, rocking on the porch, or just being idle was unbearable.

I had to get away, do something exciting. Well, perhaps selling everything, buying a sailboat to live and cruise on was a bit extreme, but we had a great time. Then we sold the boat and traveled pretty much non-stop up until last year when my health deteriorated enough so that we had to settle down again.

Guess what? Life is great. I have discovered the pleasures of being idle. I can't explain it, and do not mean to brag in any sense. I expected to be miserable, but quite the contrary.

Hoocooddanode?

 

[W2R]

Exactly. I think you will treat yourself to more "extravagances" as time goes by. But I agree that being perfectly happy on $25k a year gives anyone a leg up for early retirement.

(PS if you were living in Vancouver, the cost of accommodation and food makes $25k impossible. I think the same is true of Seattle, NYC and San Francisco, maybe even Hawaii but then a relocation presents a cost-saving opportunity after retirement.)

I could afford the increased housing costs on the west coast if I watched what I spent, but I am not madly scrambling to move there right now. Why? Dunno. Personal taste, I suppose. Having lived there, and in "flyover country", I prefer the latter.

I hope you are right about the extravagances. I am getting such a huge kick out of my Kindle right now.

 

[rescueme]

Up until this thread, I was getting the feeling that most everyone here lives on $25k a year and never goes anywhere. And that "the good life" was beyond reach.

One would think that on a forum such as this that (IMHO) is based upon the LBYM lifestyle and the "minimum" you need to retire you would have those who proudly show how they were able to retire at an early age and try to live a minimal lifestyle.

Then there are those of us (I believe more than post here) that have lead a LBYM lifestyle, but in retirement find that they have more than they need for a minimum existence (as my DW/me).

We led very frugal lifestyles. Sometimes required (in our early years) and the same as we got older. Heck, we're in our early 60's but still basically live the same as we lived much earlier in our lives.

We don't live extravently, but we do live well at this time of our lives. Part planning, part luck.

I apologize for nothing...

 

[ziggy29]

Then there are those of us (I believe more than post here) that have lead a LBYM lifestyle, but in retirement find that they have more than they need for a minimum existence (as my DW/me).

And that's fine. But your comments lead me to think you're suggesting the fact some people can be satisfied with a low-income retirement means that they think *everyone* should, and that by extension anyone who wants a higher standard of living than that in retirement is somehow a "failure" at LBYM and is wasting a lot of money.

So I think you're taking offense to something no one is saying.

No, the point is that we all have different wants. Some people have fewer "wants" that cost money than other people. If you can afford it, go for it. It's that simple. When says something works *for them*, it's not automatically an implied indictment of those who would do differently.

 

[rescueme]

So I think you're taking offense to something no one is saying.

What I take offense to is the idea that some folks on this thread think those of us that have more than a minimal existence (e.g. multiple vacation homes or travel) are "bragging" (more than one post).

I've posted that everybody is different based upon their wants/needs, financial/family situation.

It's apparent (at least to me) that there are those that think that those who live a certain lifestyle are somewhat "deficient" in nature (no, I don't need to take a tent to rent out on my travels, for example)..

The comment about "bragging" does not apply. Additionally, Keith's observation (e.g. some folks spending more) seems to support my contention that a lot (not all) folks think about ER being just a "basic existance".

I (and others) are just pointing out that it does not need to be (with a little luck, and much planning)..

 

[Meadbh]

We don't live extravently, but we do live well at this time of our lives. Part planning, part luck.

I'd call that LBYM payback time.

 

[ziggy29]

I'd call that LBYM payback time.

I believe this is what Dave Ramsey calls "living like no one else so you can live like no one else."

 

[rescueme]

I'd call that LBYM payback time.

Amen

 

[W2R]

What I take offense to is the idea that some folks on this thread think those of us that have more than a minimal existence (e.g. multiple vacation homes or travel) are "bragging" (more than one post).

I've posted that everybody is different based upon their wants/needs, financial/family situation.

It's apparent (at least to me) that there are those that think that those who live a certain lifestyle are somewhat "deficient" in nature (no, I don't need to take a tent to rent out on my travels, for example)...

I found your post responding to mine to be totally confusing, which is why I didn't respond to it. My phrase with a "rolleyes" about bragging was meant as a playful double entendre to both travelover and kcowan, who seemed to me to have different views about who was doing the bragging (those living the good life, or those LBYM'ing?). As I also said in my post, different strokes for different folks. I could care less if you have 16 vacation homes, three RVs, a transoceanic yacht, and a couple of million frequent flyer miles as long as your lifestyle makes YOU happy. Likewise I would hope to receive (as I did from kcowan) the same tolerance from others for living the lifestyle that makes ME happy.

 

[audreyh1]

I'd call that LBYM payback time.

Yep! Same here! We made careful choices when younger, and now we reap the rewards (sustainably).

Audrey

 

[rescueme]

I found your post responding to mine to be totally confusing.

Sounds like me ...

No problem here - peace...

- Ron

 

[NW-Bound]

Count us among the travel lovers. It is true that sometimes when we talk passionately about what we love to do, it may come off as bragging. And I do apologize about it, as I know some other people here love to travel too, but are not able to do it for one reason or another.

Yeah, at some point in life, one has to turn up the spigot a bit. I am proud that despite my dropping out of a lucrative job at a megacorp (a component of the Dow 30) at the age of 40 to join a couple of startups that crashed and burned leaving me with nothing to show for my hard work, our LBYM lifestyle allows us to have two comfortable homes and a 7-figure portfolio. My wife quit her megacorp job (another Dow component) after 25+ years there. No pension, no benefits whatsoever, and we survive fine so far. LBYM RULES!

No, the 2nd one is just a "home", not a "vacation home" as it is only 2-1/2 hr away, and in the same state. Same as Westernskies, we use it to escape the "dry heat" of the low AZ metropolis, although not working full-time, I am sure we get to use ours more than he does his.

For vacationing, we just got an RV. We may skip international travel for the next couple of years.

Heh heh heh, we are going to like to travel like a "turtle" with an RV. In fact, we just made a short 3-day trip, and loved it. Will make a post about this later.

 

[MichaelB]

Bragging

All right, I was the one that brought "bragging" into the thread. It was unnecessary and didn't add anything. I apologize - especially to the poster it was directed against. Would edit it out but I can't ... no edit function.

 

[rescueme]

For vacationing, we just got an RV. We may skip international travel for the next couple of years.

Please let us (at least me ) the results of your RV travels.

We were looking at the posts related to RV travel on this site and did some preliminary investigation. This was based upon our U.S. based trip that we make every year (usually fly, rental or tour bus) which would allow us to take our two "furkids" along.

The initial investigation, based upon our method of usual travel did not "match up". Let me explain. My DW (love her dearly, but can be a PIA since she needs to see "everything") would not allow us to use an RV unless we had a separate tow vehicle (e.g. intercity travel).

Additionally, since we had condo rentals on several trips to Hawaii (no, not bragging - just trying to state the facts, please) when we went to the local market to get food for breakfast, she let me know that her version of vacation (e.g. any trip) did not include anything she normally did at home (including making breakfast; BTW, I've always made my own ).

However she has not said a definite "no"; we are still investigating.

Hey, how will we ever get to "The biggest ball of twine"

World's Largest Twine Ball, Darwin, Minnesota

unless we're on the road?....

 

[audreyh1]

Heh heh heh, we are going to like to travel like a "turtle" with an RV. In fact, we just made a short 3-day trip, and loved it. Will make a post about this later.

LOL! We sometimes refer to our mode of travel as "like a turtle".

Audrey

 

[travelover]

All right, I was the one that brought "bragging" into the thread. It was unnecessary and didn't add anything. I apologize - especially to the poster it was directed against. Would edit it out but I can't ... no edit function.

Hey no fair ! I thought I was the one that brought up the "B" word.

 

[haha]

Big deal, I say. If a man is communicating expect at least some of it to be bragging, or poorly camoflaged attempts to brag without seeming to be bragging.

I remember visiting my old parents in the assisted living home. I ate lunch with the old men. They were all bragging about how rich they were. Then I had coffee with my mother and her friends- they were all bragging about how rich their sons were.

Like the song says. ...and dance me to the end of time...

Ha

 

[kcowan]

We have an LBYM lifestyle in retirement. We rent our place in Vancouver because buying made no sense. We sublet it when we are down south. We own our place in PV and that makes our winters really cheap. We own a car in both places (a 93 and an 05).

It works out for us enabling us to travel each September to someplace special (like Provence or Tuscany) but it is indeed a subsistance approach. Even so, we expect to leave a bunch of money behind for charitable purposes but that will depend on the markets! We are hopeful but also cautious now more than ever!

 

[Danmar]

Getting back to the OP " Is a second home a good idea-given the obvious expense". I think we covered the waterfront (and then some) on this. Hard to talk about these types of issues without offending someone it would appear. Hopefully this board is "big" enough to embrace a little wealth diversity.

 

[ziggy29]

Getting back to the OP " Is a second home a good idea-given the obvious expense". I think we covered the waterfront (and then some) on this. Hard to talk about these types of issues without offending someone it would appear. Hopefully this board is "big" enough to embrace a little wealth diversity.

I think the "offense" that was taken was mostly a misunderstanding in hindsight.

And getting back to the part you put in quotes, whether it's a "good idea" from a *strictly* financial standpoint is secondary to the basic idea that if something enhances your quality of life AND you can very clearly afford it, do it, even if it's financially suboptimal. It's important to make decisions justified by financial considerations, but if you can *easily* afford something and it's something you really like and enjoy, at that point financial optimization is secondary to enjoying life.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes, I feel there is wealth diversity here, although I do not know if it is representative of the society at large. Still, this being an open public forum and not having an exclusivity of a country club (I am not a member of any, never will be nor care to be), one should expect that the distribution is to be somewhat Gaussian and concentrated towards the middle, as Meadbh pointed out. In fact, I strongly suspect that this forum is already tilted towards the upper middle class. Let's face it. It is simply difficult for an average worker with the median income to think of early retirement. It is possible, but a lot tougher than it is for someone who has a 6-figure annual income, or at least quite a bit more than the US household average of around $50K/year. Meadbh was right when she implied that a person of a lesser income who manages to ER would have a more interesting story to tell than an arrogant well-compensated lawyer. It would be to me.

And then, even someone with a 6-figure annual income still cannot be considered as "having money out the wazoo". He has a bit more means than the average worker, but still has to debate various ways to spend his money and to allocate it to maximize its utility. Hence, this "vacation home or no vacation home" debate would still be of interest to such persons, I presume.

Now, for a person of much greater means, such a debate becomes meaningless. The LBYM concept becomes absurd when we talk about Buffett or Gates. A lesser billionaire, Larry Ellison, who is a more flamboyant spender, would be hard pressed to spend a 4% SWR of his 22 billion fortune. I am not blaming a rich person for being rich, but he simply does not have the same problems that the average Joe has, even if that average Joe is the "millionaire next-door". Yes, why bother to debate on how to spend money? Why not have one of everything?

Of course a centimillionaire who does not have 1 billion still has to decide on whether to have a helipad in the back of his yacht, but I don't think the average forum member would have much to offer in such discussions.

Ha was right that people most often like to "brag". I take this verb a bit more broadly to mean that we like to tell about something that we are proud of. It may not be about wealth, but about some accomplishments, or some new acquisitions. It may be our skill or knowledge in cooking, or a serendipitous find on craigslist.

When I just discovered this forum, I surfed and looked at some old threads. I laughed my ass off at some threads about LBYM, where people half-jokingly told how their frugal ways were superior. We have not had that kind of bragging in a while. I miss it.

 

[haha]

I miss it.

I don't! And I hope your nostaligia for it does not get it started up again.

Ha