National Parks May NOT Be Open This Year

[MRG]

There was no one to ask!
I did ask for a partial refund once they reopened. They thanked me for the hardy chuckle.

That's great. What else could you ask for?

We were in Estes Park when RMNP closed for the season. IIRC the exact date was a little subject to change due to weather.

The parks are great and a bargain.

 

[braumeister]

Are you saying Canadian national parks are free, or US National Parks are free to Canadians?

Canadian parks are free.

Welcome to Parks Canada Passes and Permits

It doesn't say whether these passes are just for Canadians or for anyone. Worth a try, though.

 

[marko]

I view this similar to SS running out of money, Medicare being eliminated and an irretrievable market crash being imminent.

Somehow these impending catastrophes always seem to get worked out when the time comes.

 

[Sunset]

Canadian parks are free.

Welcome to Parks Canada Passes and Permits

It doesn't say whether these passes are just for Canadians or for anyone. Worth a try, though.

Available to anyone, they mailed us one (good for the car). A USA address, no questions asked.

From their FAQ:
"
How long does my pass or permit take to arrive by mail? If I order online, can I go to a participating location immediately?
When you order a pass or permit online or by phone, Parks Canada will ship your order as soon as possible. First-class shipping is included free of charge!
If you are concerned that your order may not arrive before you depart for your visit, don’t worry! You can also get your 2017 Discovery Pass or boating permit(s) upon arrival at your destination.
If you are traveling within 6 weeks it is recommended that you obtain your pass or permit upon arrival.

"

 

[skipro33]

In 2013, the issue was a budget that wasn't passed. No money, no open parks. However this time it's a hiring freeze for federal employees. Most national parks are not maintained by frederal employees. They are vendor operated to the large extent.
So, if the parks are vendor operated, who cares if there's a federal employee hiring freeze and how would that affect park operations?

 

[GravitySucks]

I view this similar to SS running out of money, Medicare being eliminated and an irretrievable market crash being imminent.

Somehow these impending catastrophes always seem to get worked out when the time comes.

Certainly messed up my vacation.

 

[bearkeley]

Nope. I bought a years pass back in 2013 and they shut down the parks the next day.

They meaning Congress.

 

[DrRoy]

A hiring freeze does not = closing the parks. Let's see what happens.

 

[hesperus]

Most national parks are not maintained by frederal employees. They are vendor operated to the large extent.
So, if the parks are vendor operated, who cares if there's a federal employee hiring freeze and how would that affect park operations?

That's not exactly true. Vendors are private entities that usually just run the tours and restaurants. The resources (cultural and natural) are a different matter entirely. The National Park's resources, for which the Parks were founded and mandated to protect ARE maintained by many permanent staff that hire, train, and direct seasonal employees, and are critical to the consistency and quality of work done year to year. To lose them would be analagous to having a private business run entirely by temp staff that changes year to year. The parks, like any successful business, need to have consistency in the leadership to keep them running smoothly and transfer skills&knowledge from year to year. Seasonal employees do expand greatly during the peak visiting periods, but they often come in with little to no knowledge of the resources they will help manage. That said, in my experience a freeze will certainly not shut down the park, or be noticeable to most people who visit. Tours will go on and restaurants will be open. The problems that do occur are usually at the resource level, such as cultural or natural resource management. At Mesa Verde for example, the world heritage archeological sites may lose archeologists or architects who are experts with that resource through years of experience and academic training. If they retire, and no one gets hired to backfill that position, that resource can suffer. Not noticeable to the average visitor, but very noticeable to those who know what to look for, especially after a number of years of undone work.

 

[JoeWras]

Vendors may also be asked to stand down if the park employees cannot service safety aspects.

We were fortunate in the shutdown 2 years ago. We were in a vendor lodging facility on the last day of September. The next morning, they had to close even thought they were vendor because the rangers could not service the rest of the park. They would have loved to stay, but they were not allowed.

(P.S. Don't plan NPS trips for October 1. For some reason, this is the funding renewal date.)

 

[braumeister]

(P.S. Don't plan NPS trips for October 1. For some reason, this is the funding renewal date.)

FYI, that's the first day of the fiscal year for the federal government.

 

[Rustic23]

I believe the US fiscal year starts 1 Oct.

 

[harley]

I was planning to camp in George Washington National Forest during the last shutdown. I got to the fire road leading to my camping area. There was a sign on the chain across the road saying it was closed due to the budget shutdown. I drove around the chained road (4WD), met my friends at the top of the mountain, and had an excellent weekend. It's hard to close a forest. I've been camping there for over 30 years and have never seen a ranger, so no big deal.

 

[skipro33]

I remember back in the 70's, 75 I believe, when the federal budget was delayed. I was in the military. We were not furloughed until a budget was passed and I remember not getting a paycheck either.

I gotta ask, if your private employer said payroll was gonna be delayed would you not show up for work until it was rectified or would you take the IOU until you could get paid?

I also remember the state of California giving me a 'warrant' in lieu of a check for my tax return a few years ago because of delays in passing a budget.

I think the whole 'shutting down the public sites' is a tactic to motivate and the citizens are the ones who suffer for it.

 

[JoeWras]

I was planning to camp in George Washington National Forest during the last shutdown. I got to the fire road leading to my camping area. There was a sign on the chain across the road saying it was closed due to the budget shutdown. I drove around the chained road (4WD), met my friends at the top of the mountain, and had an excellent weekend. It's hard to close a forest. I've been camping there for over 30 years and have never seen a ranger, so no big deal.

I get it, and congratulations.

Just one thing, if you are depending on a contractor -- say the fine folks at Phantom Ranch -- to service you during such an event, they won't be there, even if they want to be (and they want to be, believe me). They have no choice but to stand down and leave you in the lurch. Oh and that luck you had in getting the reservation 12 months earlier for the Ranch that is nearly impossible to get? Thrown away like spoiled underwear. Too bad.

But feel free to splash in the Colorado river all you want. Nobody gonna stop you.

 

[MRG]

I remember back in the 70's, 75 I believe, when the federal budget was delayed. I was in the military. We were not furloughed until a budget was passed and I remember not getting a paycheck either.

I gotta ask, if your private employer said payroll was gonna be delayed would you not show up for work until it was rectified or would you take the IOU until you could get paid?

I w*rked with my brother in the middle 70s. There was no set pay, we divided up what the pay was with some money for fuel. We were a little flush one week and I received some extra cash. That week something broke and caused an unexpected expense. When I got my wallet out of my car that evening all the cash was gone.

I know some folks who taught at a trade school. The owner was under investigation and having cash flow issues. Their paychecks started to bounce, followed by a promise of an IOU. All that ended when he was arrested for student loan fraud.

However I can truly empathize. Family is one thing, getting conned by a con is another. It would stink worse in a real organization.

 

[Potstickers]

That's great. What else could you ask for?

We were in Estes Park when RMNP closed for the season. IIRC the exact date was a little subject to change due to weather.

The parks are great and a bargain.

Just to clarify - Rocky Mountain National Park is open year-round. Trail Ridge Road, which connects the east side of the park (Estes Park) to the west side (Grand Lake) over an 11,000 foot pass gets closed every fall and reopens in late May or early June after they've plowed out the 15+ feet of snow.

Both sides of RMNP are beautiful to visit in the winter!

 

[Montecfo]

I was planning to camp in George Washington National Forest during the last shutdown. I got to the fire road leading to my camping area. There was a sign on the chain across the road saying it was closed due to the budget shutdown. I drove around the chained road (4WD), met my friends at the top of the mountain, and had an excellent weekend. It's hard to close a forest. I've been camping there for over 30 years and have never seen a ranger, so no big deal.

That was like during the partial government shutdown, the government "closed" the WW2 memorial which is an open air memorial on the Washington DC mall. They actually put up barricades to "close" it, and prevent people from walking into the memorial, as was always possible. The dozens of veterans there who had traveled distances to see the memorial, some with canes, walkers, or wheel chair were to be shut out. It was kind of a stunt.

They got in anyway. Seems the Germans and Japanese did not stop them, so a few barricades did not fend them off at all.

I think the parks will be open as usual.

 

[hesperus]

The dozens of veterans there who had traveled distances to see the memorial, some with canes, walkers, or wheel chair were to be shut out. It was kind of a stunt.

They got in anyway. Seems the Germans and Japanese did not stop them, so a few barricades did not fend them off at all.

It may or may not have been a stunt. I can't speak for the WW2 memorial itself, but in Parks I've worked in there are often liability issues when a park (or area within) is closed. They want to prevent someone from either stupidly hurting themselves or damaging the resource.

 

[Sunset]

It may or may not have been a stunt. I can't speak for the WW2 memorial itself, but in Parks I've worked in there are often liability issues when a park (or area within) is closed. They want to prevent someone from either stupidly hurting themselves or damaging the resource.

You would think the Feds would pass a law that they cannot be sued, like the Queen and Canadian gov't has done.

Besides, even when the parks are open people are routinely "stupidly hurting themselves or damaging the resource."

 

[Hershey102]

A misleading subject line which I suppose is to get visitors to read the post. Nowhere in the NPS quote does it say that parks may be closed.

 

[Car-Guy]

I hope it gets worked out soon. We have been to some of the national parks and they are so beautiful. I have not seen Glacier but want to.

Better hurry, according to Wikipedia, scientists that study the glaciers in the park suggest that all of the glaciers may be gone by 2030 based on current climate changes.