College Costs, why?

[Gumby]

My college costs exactly the same today as it did when I started in 1977.

 

[eytonxav]

My college costs exactly the same today as it did when I started in 1977..

Surprising the gummit has not increased post grad commitment to be in line with inflation.

 

[anethum]

Interesting. I attended the University of California Berkeley (Go Bears!) 1972-1976. My tuition was $625/quarter or $1875/year (this is tuition only -- not including other fees and dorms). Inflation adjusted this is $13,588 in 2023. The equivalent annual in-state tuition today at Cal is $15,444 so attending public university in California (and arguably one of the best in the country) . . . not so bad (if you can get in).

Not sure those attending Stanford ($61,700) are getting their money's worth

I believe that in-state tuition & fees at UC Berkeley in the early-to-mid 70s was only $212.50/quarter, or $637.50/year. Out-of-state undergrad tuition & fees was the in-state amount plus $500 additional per quarter. So inflation-adjusted, today's cost would be far less than today's actual cost.

https://dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-1868

"1975-76: Annual tuition and fees for resident UC undergraduates total $630. Annual tuition and fees for nonresident UC undergraduates total $2,130."

(I think that slight UC campus activity fee differences account for the minor discrepancy."

Go Bears!

 

[Phroig]

My college costs exactly the same today as it did when I started in 1977..

One of the service academies?

 

[Gumby]

One of the service academies?

Yes, US Naval Academy.

 

[jurgs01]

The government has distorted the college market by offering student loans on a vast scale. If they scaled that down, college costs would probably drop significantly.

What do you expect when the government offers to guarantee $200k to subsidize a C student for four years getting an underwater basket weaving degree (read, booze filled party)?

Without government, lending institutions would weigh the ability to pay back, so doctors, engineers, etc would be good.

Universities and colleges would have to compete for a smaller pool of applicants, so prices would tank, admin overhead would be cut, and all of the luxeries that don't contribute to education would go away.

We would also have more people going into trades rather than accumulating the equivalent a mortgage in debt for basically no skills.

 

[gutterman]

What do you expect when the government offers to guarantee $200k to subsidize a C student for four years getting an underwater basket weaving degree (read, booze filled party)?

Without government, lending institutions would weigh the ability to pay back, so doctors, engineers, etc would be good.

Universities and colleges would have to compete for a smaller pool of applicants, so prices would tank, admin overhead would be cut, and all of the luxeries that don't contribute to education would go away.

We would also have more people going into trades rather than accumulating the equivalent a mortgage in debt for basically no skills.

When I went to high school, there was a vocational school in walking distance. Some kids went to college prep classes, others went to vocational school to learn cosmetology, accounting, auto repair, drafting, plumbing, electrical, carpentry, etc. I drove by that school last year and the vocational school is no more. I learned that most parents did not want their kids doing vocational school as it was for "losers", and preferred college instead.

 

[jurgs01]

When I went to high school, there was a vocational school in walking distance. Some kids went to college prep classes, others went to vocational school to learn cosmetology, accounting, auto repair, drafting, plumbing, electrical, carpentry, etc. I drove by that school last year and the vocational school is no more. I learned that most parents did not want their kids doing vocational school as it was for "losers", and preferred college instead.

Hopefully that changes. Skilled trades are well paid, and are careers that should be respected.

 

[gutterman]

I hope so too but I doubt it will happen. Do you hear any parents saying they want their kid be a plumber or other trade? I don't, and live near families with children. All these kids are planning to get into a good college.

 

[timbervest]

It may change. Trained electricians, plumbers, operating engineers, and carpenters particularly in commercial real estate construction can make very good livings (especially trough the union apprenticeship programs) and often do it faster than the kid coming out of 4 year college with a non-STEM degree and a boat load of debt.

 

[JoeWras]

It may change. Trained electricians, plumbers, operating engineers, and carpenters particularly in commercial real estate construction can make very good livings (especially trough the union apprenticeship programs) and often do it faster than the kid coming out of 4 year college with a non-STEM degree and a boat load of debt.

Yes, but...

It is really hard work. You cannot "work from home" for starters. Much of it requires working in heat or cold. Even the cleaner professions such as electrical or HVAC require extreme physical demands of working in crawl spaces or attics. Plumbing has risks like getting sprayed with active sewage. This is a real risk. My dad had all kinds of weird infections on his face. I'm guessing because of this.

I agree that commercial work is the way to go, if you can get it. This tends to be cleaner for all professions.

It is also easy to think about new construction only. The problem is the demand is in repair. Repair is hard and dirty. You have to open walls. There are all kinds of challenges, which is actually really good for your brain. But dealing with homeowners or business owners can be a real pain in the ass.

I'm not going to blame the young generation for now wanting to deal with this. We are the blame. My dad worked hard as journeyman union plumber (and had 4 joint replacements to prove it) so that me and my siblings didn't have to crawl around in shxt. The union was great, but it didn't protect him from the hard work.

There are young people up for the challenge and I thank them every time I meet them on job sites or in my hiring for my own house.

We somehow have to get away from "I will only work from home" to "I am working towards a great purpose by helping people live safe and comfortably."

 

[razztazz]

We somehow have to get away from "I will only work from home" to "I am working towards a great purpose by helping people live safe and comfortably."

This actually used to be a major American Motif. The phase "Dats America" comes to mind. Heard it a jillion times growing up. Then they started slinging the word "entrepreneur" around as the be-all end-all of what you should be and marginalized being anything else. Premeditatedly.

 

[Closet_Gamer]

I tend to agree with most of the thinking in this chain re cause and effect, though I would suggest there is another, very positive source of demand:

Women and minorities going to college. Even in 70s and 80s, there were not nearly as many women in college -- and certainly not in STEM fields -- as there are today.

A huge swath of the population used to think/be told/faced the reality that college was not for them. That is no longer the case.

My two girls will both exit college with advanced STEM degrees which is good for society and puts them on a much safer playing field in terms of winding up in a bad marriage, etc. My Mom probably should have told my Dad to shove off in the 1970s, but there was ZERO chance of her doing that with negligible skills and five kids.

Its at least an even money bet that my girls will be the primary bread winners when they get married. I sleep better at night.

 

[Gumby]

My uneducated nephews all had good fortune in picking wives. In every case, my nieces-in-law are college graduates and the primary bread winners in the family. And they are all very nice young women.

 

[Texas Proud]

I tend to agree with most of the thinking in this chain re cause and effect, though I would suggest there is another, very positive source of demand:

Women and minorities going to college. Even in 70s and 80s, there were not nearly as many women in college -- and certainly not in STEM fields -- as there are today.

A huge swath of the population used to think/be told/faced the reality that college was not for them. That is no longer the case.

My two girls will both exit college with advanced STEM degrees which is good for society and puts them on a much safer playing field in terms of winding up in a bad marriage, etc. My Mom probably should have told my Dad to shove off in the 1970s, but there was ZERO chance of her doing that with negligible skills and five kids.

Its at least an even money bet that my girls will be the primary bread winners when they get married. I sleep better at night.

An interesting thought... but I am not sure if they added demand as from the very little info I have the colleges I know about have not really increased their attendance over the years... and I do not think the pricing is based on demand like we think about it for other items..


Maybe some research...

 

[explanade]

My uneducated nephews all had good fortune in picking wives. In every case, my nieces-in-law are college graduates and the primary bread winners in the family. And they are all very nice young women.

Trend in recent years is for more girls to enroll while boys do something else after high school if they haven’t dropped out already.

So if it continues, in a decade you could have far more women with white collar jobs. Certainly some of the men could be successful, maybe own their own construction or plumbing business.

But in general, will professional, college-educated women be interested in men who didn’t go to college, even if they’re successful?

A lot of the teens who don’t go to college are those who didn’t apply themselves in school work, compared to those who took harder classes and did extracurricular activities to burnish their college applications.

So it isn’t just lack of academic aptitude or interest but maybe work ethic. Such kids may struggle in non-academic fields like the trades if they’re not willing to work hard.

 

[Texas Proud]

Decided to look... attendance peaked in 2010... so not demand...



Looks like the last couple of years have gone up but unconfirmed...







https://educationdata.org/college-enrollment-statistics

 

[Markola]

^^^^^ That’s quite a boatload of stats, thanks. I scanned through about half until my brain was swimming.

The combination of high costs, alternative options to college, smaller post-Millennials generations, etc. also mean an extinction event is underway for smaller colleges and universities. Many are downsizing, consolidating or closing altogether, because there simply aren’t enough paying students.

 

[Gumby]

Decided to look... attendance peaked in 2010... so not demand...

Looks like the last couple of years have gone up but unconfirmed...

https://educationdata.org/college-enrollment-statistics

These statistics stood out to me:

Women earn 57.7% of bachelor’s degrees.
Among associate’s and master’s degree program completers, 61.4% are women.
55.2% of doctorate degrees conferred belong to women.

I suspect the trend will continue in this direction.

 

[USGrant1962]

Decided to look... attendance peaked in 2010... so not demand...


Looks like the last couple of years have gone up but unconfirmed...


https://educationdata.org/college-enrollment-statistics

I'd suggest that, economically, demand is the number of dollars purchasing college - not just the number of students. So perhaps from the 1970s to 2010 the increase in students drove prices and in the 21st century increasing government-sponsored student loan money drove prices even faster.

Here's the cost page from that site:

https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-college

 

[JoeWras]

These statistics stood out to me:

<unbalanced degrees between genders>

I suspect the trend will continue in this direction.

I suspect so too. Currently, frank discussions about the problems unique to boys and men have been put on the back shelf. There are canaries in the coal mine and this stat is just one of many.

 

[Stormy Kromer]

When I went to high school, there was a vocational school in walking distance. Some kids went to college prep classes, others went to vocational school to learn cosmetology, accounting, auto repair, drafting, plumbing, electrical, carpentry, etc. I drove by that school last year and the vocational school is no more. I learned that most parents did not want their kids doing vocational school as it was for "losers", and preferred college instead.

Tried to hire a Plumber, Electrician lately ?? Need someone to fix your car after an accident or breakdown ?

I respect the trades.

 

[JoeWras]

WSJ chimes in.

Free link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-...g5d0d2niye8&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Colleges Spend Like There’s No Tomorrow. ‘These Places Are Just Devouring Money.’

Students foot the bill for flagship state universities that pour money into new buildings and programs with little pushback.

The nation’s best-known public universities have been on an unfettered spending spree. Over the past two decades, they erected new skylines comprising snazzy academic buildings and dorms. They poured money into big-time sports programs and hired layers of administrators.

Then they passed the bill along to students.

...

 

[eytonxav]

WSJ chimes in.

Free link: https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-...g5d0d2niye8&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Contrast, when I was in school in the early 70s, some of the buildings were 75-100+ years old.

 

[pb4uski]

When I went to high school, there was a vocational school in walking distance. Some kids went to college prep classes, others went to vocational school to learn cosmetology, accounting, auto repair, drafting, plumbing, electrical, carpentry, etc. I drove by that school last year and the vocational school is no more. I learned that most parents did not want their kids doing vocational school as it was for "losers", and preferred college instead.

We had a vocational school that was attached to our school. I have classmates that were college prep (as I was) and voc ed (a close friend). We all got along fine, though I will admit that the college prep was viewed as preferable.

I took "bookeeping" in the college prep program because I had an interest in accounting. At our recent 50th reunion I ran into a woman who sat beside me during those bookeeping classes... she remembered and I remembered after she reminded me.

Nothing qrong with voc ed IMO.. DS decided not to attend college so we encouraged him to look into vocational training.