College Costs, why?

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eytonxav

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Some of us help our kids and grandkids pay for college. Now we are seeing gov't want to forgive student loan debt. It seems to me the elephant in the room that seems to be ignored is why college tuition has escalated to the point of making college unaffordable for many, and yet I do not see gov't or the media going after the colleges to payoff these loans and make their tuition more affordable. While I have not verified the numbers in this meme, it makes the point nonetheless. What a disgrace to ignore the obvious:
 

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I think it is generally accepted that administrative bloat and country-clubification of campuses are big causes of the increase in excess of normal inflation. Some might argue that the proliferation of new boutique/vanity "studies" curricula also contributes. Student loan programs have been a great enabler - basically enabling rent seeking by the universities to hoover up the money.
 
USGrant1962 said:
country-clubification of campuses
Click to expand...

On a recent visit to my old campus (University of Illinois), I was blown away by how nice everything was.

In 1980, my newest classrooms were 60s era. Most were 50s and before. For summer school, the 1910s era classroom was best because it was in the basement and had basement cooling. All other rooms had no A/C except for one 60s era class.

It was nice to learn EE on analog oscilloscopes* and punched cards (we were the last class!). I'm surprised they didn't hand out slide rules. /s

* - This was actually a problem as my boss was shocked that I didn't know how to use their digital logic analyzer. I had to crash-course it my first week at work.
 
We need an Elon Musk type of person whose goal is to make college affordable again. Someone who will cut through the bureaucratic nonsense to get things done quickly. Today’s colleges are like Boeing.

TIP: it’s not necessary to build the first campus on Mars. We do not need a big country club campus at all.
 
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The meme shows that wages, especially minimum wage, haven’t kept up. When I went to college in the 80s a lot of my friends were working their way through with a PT job. That’s nearly impossible today. You can’t earn 50K working a couple of evenings and weekends.

I agree about AC. A couple of the newer dorms had it but not where I was freshman and sophomore years.
 
Colleges went totally and completely upscale. Last year we visited the campus of the school we graduated in the early 80s. It was down right shocking. Walking into some of the buildings reminded me of the Nordstrom lobby. Also there's like 20% more building. All the large grass lawns areas are gone. Actually its a bit sad. What I remember is gone forever along with the cheap $230/quarter tuition.
 
Even with attending community college for the first two years, and a local state uni for his last two, DS still left with about $20,000 and then another $20,000 for his masters in Boston (and that's with a scholarship). about 2009+
Luckily, DD work helped pay for tuition for her two year degree.

It would be wonderful for tuition for schools and trade schools to be more reasonable for families. Not sure what the government could do, without folks complaining either about taxes or "not fair". But these kids are our future, I want them educated to succeed, not only here but in competition with the rest of the world.
 
The states have also gradually reduced the amount of support they give state universities, which is what my 4 siblings and I attended. Mom and Dad, may they rest in peace, funded all of our undergrad educations, on Dad's salary as a steel company executive in a LCOL area (Ohio). Mom died in 2016; Dad died in 2021 and still left a decent chunk to be split among the 5 of us after 18 months in self-pay LTC. I doubt they'd be able to do that now.

I do agree on the country-club changes in the dorms, but that can't be all of it. Yeah, I lived in a dorm without A/C and a communal bathroom down the hall but in my junior year I lived off-campus. College is also crazy-expensive even if you just commute.

I also think they've felt relaxed about letting tuition and other costs ride up because of the easy availability of student loans. Can't pay that much? We'll just give you more "financial aid". (If I have to pay it back it's not really financial aid. Sorry.)

Educational institutions need to bear some of the sting of default on loans. There are way too many mediocre educational institutions offering unmarketable degrees and they're far too careless about accepting marginal students. Sure, there are kids who are smart but have had setbacks and deserve a chance, but right now the colleges and universities can sign up anyone who can fog a mirror, sign them up for student loans, enroll them in remedial courses that don't count towards a degree, and when they drop out after a year with big loans and no marketable skills the institutions still get their money.

Finally, a plug for co-op programs. Dad did that at the University of Cincinnati, class of 1953, and it's still going strong and has been extended to more fields. When I was there (I didn't qualify but knew many Engineering majors who did), you went to school for 3 quarters and then got a Co-op job and alternated working at that job and attending school. It was a 5-year program, you typically stayed with the same Co-op employer the whole time, and had increasing responsibilities. Most graduated with an offer from that employer (and more). If you were really thrifty or had a Co-op job near your parents' place, you can out with no loans.
 
pacergal said:
Even with attending community college for the first two years, and a local state uni for his last two, DS still left with about $20,000 and then another $20,000 for his masters in Boston (and that's with a scholarship). about 2009+
Luckily, DD work helped pay for tuition for her two year degree.

It would be wonderful for tuition for schools and trade schools to be more reasonable for families. Not sure what the government could do, without folks complaining either about taxes or "not fair". But these kids are our future, I want them educated to succeed, not only here but in competition with the rest of the world.
Click to expand...

Twenty-thousand for four years is a far cry from the initial example of almost 60k a year - but I don't know if your DS incurred room & board at any time, or if he or you paid anything while he was in school?
 
This also does not include the cost of housing!!!


The building that are being built are much better living than the houses the students are coming from... and have a cost to match...


There are a lot of universities that could charge ZERO they have so much money... but they are the ones that charge a lot...
 
Chuckanut said:
We need an Elon Musk type of person whose goal is to make college affordable again. Someone who will cut through the bureaucratic nonsense to get things done quickly. Today’s colleges are like Boeing.

TIP: it’s not necessary to build the first campus on Mars. We do not need a big country club campus at all.
Click to expand...



How about free? Here’s a software entrepreneur and MIT alum who is bringing free online education to the world. https://www.saylor.org
 
Texas Proud said:
This also does not include the cost of housing!!!


The building that are being built are much better living than the houses the students are coming from... and have a cost to match...


There are a lot of universities that could charge ZERO they have so much money... but they are the ones that charge a lot...
Click to expand...


One does not necessarily have to break the bank on housing. I lived at home with my parents - DH immigrated from Europe (with a Visa), attended a City College, worked, and shared an off campus apartment with a group of young men to reduce housing costs.
 
Speaking of college housing costs, DD#1 has one who will start his Jr year in the fall and another who will be a freshman, both at the same school. She and her husband just closed on a 3BR house for them to share while they both work PT and attend classes. The hope is they can find a roommate to help share expenses.

I cringed when I saw they were paying 7% for the mortgage, but it is what it is - DW and I paid 12+% back in the early 80's.
 
Markola said:
How about free? Here’s a software entrepreneur and MIT alum who is bringing free online education to the world. https://www.saylor.org
Click to expand...

Sounds like a great idea. So I went to that site.

Not even a FAQ or "about us" page without creating an account.

My BS detector is blaring. Pass.
 
I went through 4 years of engineering college at a private university in Connecticut in the early 1970's on $222/month (no dorm stay), including books. That was my G.I. Bill benefit for spending 4 years earlier in the military.

My apartment was $80/month and I shared that with a friend. The college was 30 miles away and I commuted back and forth via a cheap motorcycle and a beat up MGB.

I had a part time job in a drug store on weekends to make up for the costs I couldn't cover.

I don't remember if the classrooms had A/C but probably not as it was CT and heat was much more important. :D

No one ever thought of needing school loans back then. , at least no one I knew
 
REWahoo said:
Speaking of college housing costs, DD#1 has one who will start his Jr year in the fall and another who will be a freshman, both at the same school. She and her husband just closed on a 3BR house for them to share while they both work PT and attend classes. The hope is they can find a roommate to help share expenses.

I cringed when I saw they were paying 7% for the mortgage, but it is what it is - DW and I paid 12+% back in the early 80's.
Click to expand...

Your DD is seeking an optimal solution. I remember the crazy rates. DH and I initially shopped for a house in the mid 80's. We saved a down payment - then - used it to pay for graduate school for me (in cash). After I graduated, we had to start saving all over again. By the time we purchased, the rates had dropped to a low, low 9%. :D
 
MarieIG said:
Twenty-thousand for four years is a far cry from the initial example of almost 60k a year - but I don't know if your DS incurred room & board at any time, or if he or you paid anything while he was in school?
Click to expand...

He had scholarships, worked part time, took full time classes. He lived at home for CC, lived with roommates for the rest. He had a scholarship for his last two years at state college and had a scholarship and worked as TA during grad school, plus worked weekends at another job.
He worked his a** off to try to avoid school loans.
We paid CC tuition, at that time that was all we could afford.
We paid off his state uni loan after we retired. He still has his loan for grad school. We will help pay that off also. We are blessed to be able to do that and he is so very thankful. He is a Good kid!
 
pacergal said:
He had scholarships, worked part time, took full time classes. He lived at home for CC, lived with roommates for the rest. He had a scholarship for his last two years at state college and had a scholarship and worked as TA during grad school, plus worked weekends at another job.
He worked his a** off to try to avoid school loans.
We paid CC tuition, at that time that was all we could afford.
We paid off his state uni loan after we retired. He still has his loan for grad school. We will help pay that off also. We are blessed to be able to do that and he is so very thankful. He is a Good kid!
Click to expand...

He is indeed - and he has good parents!
 
My point is that colleges need to start paying their fair share in the form of help with this student debt problem and making tuition more affordable going forward. Many schools also have huge endowments and make a lot of money off sports/ticket sales. Whether they had AC back in 70s has little to do with the problem. The feds need to get on their case.

I went to a private engineering college in NY back in the 70s, and if I recall tuition was around $4K, but with the GI bill I paid very little out of pocket. Even those with GI benefits today would not as easy a time financing as I did.
 
Really, it's basic economics: Put more money in the hands of buyers and prices go up.

Higher education costs have been rising far faster than health care costs for years. In this case, the education establishment is gorging itself, feeding from the endless flood of student loan money made available by the government and put into the feeding trough by naïve student borrowers. Most of the costs have been hoovered up by administrators, like our state university president at 2.5x the salary of just a few years ago. Now over $1M. Thread lock imminent, I suppose.
 
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