Air travel during Covid times

[Chuckanut]

Today's WSJ has an article on Covid safety in planes. I must admit I found it a bit confusing. The impression I have is that air travel is somewhat safe, but could be safer. There are things that could be done to make it safer, but they may not be practical in the real world. Long flights have more issues than short ones due to things like meal service. Very importantly, many of the studies seem to have been done pre-Delta variant.

The article is behind a paywall so I will post a few quotes that I found of interest.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-...es-recent-research-11632857439?mod=djemseat_t

The chances of viral spread aboard planes remain very low. But papers published in medical journals suggest they may not be as low as suggested earlier in the pandemic.

The problem comes if everyone removes their masks at the same time. The researchers’ suggested remedy to the food issue: Stagger meal delivery so only half of passengers eat at once and adjacent passengers remain masked.
That’s probably more than most hungry travelers will tolerate, and airlines say they’re sticking with standard meal-service patterns. Passengers can help protect themselves by avoiding eating while a seatmate eats, unless it’s someone they know.

Recently published research has also shown that boarding and deplaning present more transmission risk than when the plane is aloft.

The quality of evidence from most published studies was low because of weak contact tracing.

Random boarding sequences, where passengers aren’t all piling into the same rows at the same time, would be better to reduce possible transmission, he says. Even more important would be restricting hand luggage so that one passenger isn’t struggling to push something into an overhead bin while breathing on top of a seated passenger. Reducing carry-ons can reduce transmission risk by about 75%.

One paper currently undergoing peer review is recent enough to take the more contagious Delta variant into account—and suggests more risk for travelers.

 

[Sunset]

A lot of the risk is conjecture, as we don't have tracing and testing to determine the number of people who catch Covid on a plane ride. Possibly it's impossible to do due to the short time of less than a day on a plane.

I dislike long plane rides, and would rather do a Trans Atlantic cruise, but maybe that is much more risky or maybe safer
After a 2 week cruise across the ocean, it should be possible to know how many passengers are infected, by testing everyone during the second week. Of course the cruise lines would not do this willingly as it places them at a disadvantage.

No company, even grocery stores wants to declare someone got infected at their place, as customers will avoid that business.

 

[Koolau]

A lot of the risk is conjecture, as we don't have tracing and testing to determine the number of people who catch Covid on a plane ride. Possibly it's impossible to do due to the short time of less than a day on a plane.

I dislike long plane rides, and would rather do a Trans Atlantic cruise, but maybe that is much more risky or maybe safer
After a 2 week cruise across the ocean, it should be possible to know how many passengers are infected, by testing everyone during the second week. Of course the cruise lines would not do this willingly as it places them at a disadvantage.

No company, even grocery stores wants to declare someone got infected at their place, as customers will avoid that business.

Didn't get to the article, but "conjecture" seems an approbate word. Having said that MUCH of what we hear seems to have similar value. Agencies within the gummint don't even agree or are at odds. YMMV

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Didn't get to the article, but "conjecture" seems an approbate word. Having said that MUCH of what we hear seems to have similar value. Agencies within the gummint don't even agree or are at odds. YMMV

I think this is simply because government is slow to react to "ordinary" things and everything with COVID has evolved very rapidly.

I know a lot of people have travelled to Mexico during the Delta variant flare up and I have only heard of a couple of people testing positive (test required to get back in the US) prior to the return trip. While this is anecdotal in nature, this has been gleaned from several ex-pat/travel forums and pages that I frequent. Since so many folks spend 7'ish days in MX before returning, I would think that if large numbers of people were getting COVID on the plane TO MX, then these numbers would be higher.

 

[travelover]

....Possibly it's impossible to do due....

Possibly we are in deep doo-doo.

 

[Sunset]

Possibly we are in deep doo-doo.

My Freudian nature coming out

As to the thread, we flew chicago to seattle , and back at the beginning of August.

A person can only do what they can, to be careful and safe. We wore N95 masks, and kept them on about 98% of the time, off only to drink water.

 

[HenryD]

The only useful thing I got from that WSJ article was the importance of not eating/drinking if possible, especially when everyone around you is doing so. I have a 6-hour flight to Iceland the week after next, but at least they require a negative test to board. It will be unpleasant, but I go 8 hours every night without eating/drinking so I think I'll manage. My KN95 will stay on for the flight.

[Edit - article, singular]

 

[braumeister]

My (anecdotal) impression is that the airlines are doing an outstanding job. Since the pandemic began, I've taken a total of 12 flights, adding up to 44 hours flying time, and apart from the discomfort of wearing a mask the experience has been fine.

I'm not ready for international travel yet, and probably won't consider that for another year, but domestic air travel has been excellent.

 

[Luvtoride]

My (anecdotal) impression is that the airlines are doing an outstanding job. Since the pandemic began, I've taken a total of 12 flights, adding up to 44 hours flying time, and apart from the discomfort of wearing a mask the experience has been fine.

I'm not ready for international travel yet, and probably won't consider that for another year, but domestic air travel has been excellent.

Wow, that's alot of flights....I'd say your impression is more than anecdotal. I agree, the airlines have done a very good job of making healthy travel (safety has always been a priority) important and as painless as possible. We will be taking our 4th air travel trip this year on Friday and I have no concerns with that aspect of our trip. Even most passengers have been very civil and I would almost say, more courteous toward airline staff (although media does tend to emphasize the BAD Behavior passengers more frequently).

 

[braumeister]

Even most passengers have been very civil and I would almost say, more courteous toward airline staff (although media does tend to emphasize the BAD Behavior passengers more frequently).

Yes, most of our flights have been on Delta, and they seem to work very hard to create a welcoming atmosphere for passengers. I never saw any evidence of the unruly pax that are played up in the media, so I have to assume it's a very tiny percentage. One key for me is that as you deplane, the crew is normally standing there thanking you for flying with them, and I've seen many more pax than usual making a point of saying Thank You to the crew.

 

[Koolau]

My last flight, the woman sitting behind me wore a mask but never used it to cover her nose. I wasn't going to make a thing out of it and none of the flight attendants did either (we were both on aisle so she had to be seen.) YMMV

 

[Alectoris]

Interesting quotes from the article. I wish that there were citations to the research done on some of these statements....

Personally, I've done four short (2hr.) flights in the last few months. No problems, people were generally nice to neutral. No spastic news worthy outbursts. Flight attendants were awesome.

I attended two events in those trips, both indoors. One was large, with ~20K in attendance. The other was smaller with 150-200 in attendance. At both events when the lights went down the masks came off. I would make a rough guess that 95% of those present weren't wearing masks. Both events were 2 hours plus.

I'm flying a longer flight down to Mexico on Saturday with four legs and 10ish hours of plane time in total. I'm looking forward to it and am not concerned in the least.

Yes, I will wear my mask on the plane because it's not that much of an inconvenience and I don't want to be "that guy"

Stay safe and safe travels to all!

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

My last flight, the woman sitting behind me wore a mask but never used it to cover her nose. I wasn't going to make a thing out of it and none of the flight attendants did either (we were both on aisle so she had to be seen.) YMMV

I have also been on several flights this year and a couple of times people were trying the "not over my nose" trick and were immediately told by the FAs to make sure the masks fully covered the mouth and nose. They were polite, but firm.

 

[Koolau]

I have also been on several flights this year and a couple of times people were trying the "not over my nose" trick and were immediately told by the FAs to make sure the masks fully covered the mouth and nose. They were polite, but firm.

With delta now raging (the variant, not the airline) maybe the FAs will be firm on the return flight. Let's hope so.

 

[OldConch]

Thirty-five flights since February 2020 for DW and myself. One flight was to AZ to get my J&J "one and done" in March. Just returned from LAS yesterday and the vast majority of the people we encountered along the way were masked up in situations where social distancing was not possible. We did pause when Delta was ramping up.

 

[Koolau]

Thirty-five flights since February 2020 for DW and myself. One flight was to AZ to get my J&J "one and done" in March. Just returned from LAS yesterday and the vast majority of the people we encountered along the way were masked up in situations where social distancing was not possible. We did pause when Delta was ramping up.

That's a lot of flying. Were you burning Frequent Flyer miles from your w*rk days?

I'll have 4 flights in the same time as of next week. YMMV

 

[Sojourner]

Here is the full, unpaywalled WSJ article, for anyone wanting to read the whole thing.

https://archive.is/PaVGZ

 

[Koolau]

Here is the full, unpaywalled WSJ article, for anyone wanting to read the whole thing.

https://archive.is/PaVGZ

Thanks. That was very informative. I think my take away will be to dress a bit more warmly BUT use the air-gasper on full! We always take our own food, so I'll wait until everyone else is finished with their purchased meals (or beat them to it.)

The info referenced in the article seems to validate mask wearing even though my fairly extensive training would suggest something different. I say this because I can be convinced by data even though the studies are (admittedly within the article) limited by the amount of contact tracing involved.

In any case, this is just in time as I have 9 hours of flying ahead of me next week. "It's a long time to hang in the sky" as John Denver sang. It's even longer to wear a mask, but I'll do it for my safety and the safety of others.

 

[Midpack]

We just flew from NC to Boston and back, and I was pleasantly surprised re: mask compliance in the airport, on the plane and everywhere. I didn't record stats, but I'd guess 90% of people had masks worn properly, and 95% had masks worn but not entirely proper in the airport - and the numbers were higher on the plane. I didn't see him, but during boarding prior to takeoff I heard a Jetblue stewardess walk by and tell a guy a couple rows in front of us, 'pull your mask up, this is the second time I've warned you.' She didn't have to warn him again. It's not perfectly safe, but if you're vaccinated, you wear a mask as much as possible, and keep your distance when possible (in the airport & gate area) - you're probably pretty safe flying these days. While I am sure airline personnel are not perfect enforcing mask wearing, IME they are trying to hold the line within reason (to avoid too many negative comments online). FWIW

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

From the article:

Recently published research has also shown that boarding and deplaning present more transmission risk than when the plane is aloft. That’s because people cluster and breathe on top of one another.

I call these fools "gate fleas" and should be banished from air travel. We tend to only have a small carry on (can be place under the seat), so our normal course of action is to wait until the final boarding call; we are then normally able to walk right on down and sit in our seats without being crowded by these fools.

 

[Koolau]

From the article:



I call these fools "gate fleas" and should be banished from air travel. We tend to only have a small carry on (can be place under the seat), so our normal course of action is to wait until the final boarding call; we are then normally able to walk right on down and sit in our seats without being crowded by these fools.

I guess if your carry on fits under the seat in front of you this would make sense. For normal sized carry-ons, overhead bin space is still tough to find - especially close to where you are seated - when you board late. YMMV of course.

 

[Koolau]

I didn't see him, but during boarding prior to takeoff I heard a Jetblue stewardess walk by and tell a guy a couple rows in front of us, 'pull your mask up, this is the second time I've warned you.' She didn't have to warn him again.

FWIW

That's good. Much better to be certain folks are following the rules BEFORE the plane leaves the ground.

 

[OldConch]

That's a lot of flying. Were you burning Frequent Flyer miles from your w*rk days?

I'll have 4 flights in the same time as of next week. YMMV

We were teachers so unfortunately no miles from work. My hobby now is earning and burning miles and hunting for great travel deals. Lots of bargains out there if you have flexibility and we do. I think travel by plane is safe and we avoid high risk situations like the plague. Our guide on the Kenai said "get your shot and get on with your life" and that's what we plan to do. We'll continue to follow the news and data and will reevaluate as necessary.

 

[Koolau]

We were teachers so unfortunately no miles from work. My hobby now is earning and burning miles and hunting for great travel deals. Lots of bargains out there if you have flexibility and we do. I think travel by plane is safe and we avoid high risk situations like the plague. Our guide on the Kenai said "get your shot and get on with your life" and that's what we plan to do. We'll continue to follow the news and data and will reevaluate as necessary.

I hate (current) air travel. I'd much rather drive if possible. Flying itself can be sort of fun. I used to fly a plane and I loved it. But the process of getting into a seat in an aircraft is NOT fun and it spoils the whole trip (Strip at the airport, get felt-up by TSA or X-ray'd until glowing, etc., etc.) SO, I avoid flying if possible. Of course, located on an Island sort of commits me to flying occasionally. I am glad you enjoy your travels and have found a way to make it fun (and perhaps a retirement challenge as well.) Good on you!

 

[turbo89]

I guess if your carry on fits under the seat in front of you this would make sense. For normal sized carry-ons, overhead bin space is still tough to find - especially close to where you are seated - when you board late. YMMV of course.

This X2! Pre-COVID I traveled alloottt for work,and I would say ~ 90% of the time we ran out of overhead space before everyone boarded. If the airlines addressed this problem (without charging people), that would go a long way to fixing the “gate flea” problem.

I didn’t mean to de-rail this thread, but my wife and I are flying to Mexico later this year (Delta flight to Cancun), and am wondering how flying has been / how Mexico has been when you arrive / depart. I assume the resorts are offering COVID tests the day before departure?