Coronavirus - Health and preparedness aspects - II

[LRDave]

Yeah. Retired from a 30+ year career in FDA regulated healthcare. You DO need to do adequate testing. Always.

Google Thalidomide

My 95-year-old father depends upon Thalidomide to battle his multiple Myeloma cancer.

 

[razztazz]

My 95-year-old father depends upon Thalidomide to battle his multiple Myeloma cancer.

And it's been properly tested.

 

[JoeWras]

And it's been properly tested.

And it has all kinds of warnings.

My neighbor uses it for his cancer and he says there are strict warnings about how he can interact with his 20-something grand-daughter while he is taking it.

The swine flu vaccine caused problems. I remember being set to take the vaccine but never got it because of some blow up over the side effects. Wasn't that case of a rush to market?

 

[razztazz]

And it has all kinds of warnings.

My neighbor uses it for his cancer and he says there are strict warnings about how he can interact with his 20-something grand-daughter while he is taking it.

The swine flu vaccine caused problems. I remember being set to take the vaccine but never got it because of some blow up over the side effects. Wasn't that case of a rush to market?

Excellent point. Even when something has been tested and proven it can still require a long list of warnings even when "used as directed." See the prostate thread and fluouroquinolone antibiotics.

 

[MichaelB]

Two links that may be of use.

EPA list of registered products for use against Coronavirus https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2020-03/documents/sars-cov-2-list_03-03-2020.pdf

Center for Biocide Chemestires list of products effective for use against COVID-19 virus https://www.americanchemistry.com/Novel-Coronavirus-Fighting-Products-List.pdf

 

[W2R]

Looking for the differential diagnosis between seasonal flu, common cold, and COVID-19. They say the symptoms are "different" but I can't find the details.

All I have found is about hospitalized patients.

Apparently fever, cough, and shortness of breath are typical symptoms of coronavirus according to the CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/symptoms.html

I looked up typical symptoms of a cold, and they are quite different:

It usually begins with a sore throat, and before you know it, you've also got these symptoms:

Runny nose (clear and watery)
Sneezing
Fatigue
Cough
You usually don't get a fever with a cold.

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_-cold-symptoms#1

 

[mpeirce]

It's a quandary in the making, isn't it? Are many employers really prepared for the reality of having their employees call in to say they're not allowed to leave their homes for at least 2 weeks because of a government imposed quarantine?

I don't know about all of them, but I expect most will have been prepping for this for some time now.

I know my DS's company in Manhattan has told everyone that they expect about half of their employees to be "working from home" indefinitely. They have offices around the world (including China) so have been dealing with it up close from the beginning.

DS lives near enough to work that he can walk, so that keeps him off the subways. Also, he tells me "and me strong like bull" so he's got that going for him ;-)

 

[stepford]

DS lives near enough to work that he can walk, so that keeps him off the subways. Also, he tells me "and me strong like bull" so he's got that going for him ;-)

Is he also "smart like tractor"?

 

[JoeWras]

It depends on the job. So many knowledge workers don't need to be at work. Heck, we even had electro-mechanical device to reboot our PCs in the lab remotely!

My old Megacorp was pretty well prepared for this. We had a few 1 week stints where everyone worked from home due to weather. They made a thing about building the network to be able to VPN every employee.

I think it was mostly for the "Big One", a silicon valley earthquake. I don't think this was on their radar, but it should serve them, and most S.V. companies, well.

 

[Bongleur]

Apparently fever, cough, and shortness of breath are typical symptoms of coronavirus according to the CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/about/symptoms.html

I looked up typical symptoms of a cold, and they are quite different:

https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/cold-guide/common_-cold-symptoms#1

Still too vague. Is shortness of breath the distinction? LACK of fatigue indicates COVID-19 ?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/index.html
Common Flu Signs & Symptoms
Flu signs and symptoms usually come on suddenly. People who are sick with flu often feel some or all of these symptoms:
Fever* or feeling feverish/chills
Cough
Sore throat
Runny or stuffy nose
Muscle or body aches
Headaches
Fatigue (tiredness)
Some people may have vomiting and diarrhea, though this is more common in children than adults.

 

[MichaelB]

Still too vague. Is shortness of breath the distinction? LACK of fatigue indicates COVID-19 ?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/symptoms/index.html
Common Flu Signs & Symptoms
Flu signs and symptoms usually come on suddenly. People who are sick with flu often feel some or all of these symptoms:
Fever* or feeling feverish/chills
Cough
Sore throat
Runny or stuffy nose
Muscle or body aches
Headaches
Fatigue (tiredness)
Some people may have vomiting and diarrhea, though this is more common in children than adults.

That’s why you should see your physician. He or she can diagnose this correctly.

 

[NW-Bound]

Two links that may be of use.

EPA list of registered products for use against Coronavirus https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2020-03/documents/sars-cov-2-list_03-03-2020.pdf

Center for Biocide Chemestires list of products effective for use against COVID-19 virus https://www.americanchemistry.com/Novel-Coronavirus-Fighting-Products-List.pdf

If you scan through the lists, you will see many common household Clorox products used for cleaning. The common disinfectant ingredient in them is sodium hypochlorite. It's powerful stuff. Pool water with a few ppm of it can kill most microbes. The stuff that you buy is more concentrated, of up to several percent. It is used in hospitals too.

And sodium hypochlorite is also in the bleach that you pour into your cloth washer. And it is also in the generic bleach that is dirt cheap.

 

[Gumby]

That’s why you should see your physician. He or she can diagnose this correctly.

Oh, you're taking all the fun out of this, MichaelB. How will I be able to freak myself out if I do something reasonable like that?

 

[braumeister]

That’s why you should see your physician. He or she can diagnose this correctly.

FWIW, I asked my doc last week about what steps to take. I said I thought the ER would be the appropriate place only if I thought it was going into pneumonia, and he said I was right. The classic signs of pneumonia are (as said here elsewhere) cough, fever, and shortness of breath.

I've only had pneumonia once in my life, and that was when I was in my 20s (a very long time ago). I didn't know what it was, and just thought it was by far the worst cold I had ever had in my life. Just miserable. Went to the hospital on base where they took a culture and confirmed it was pneumonia. At that point I expected to be given a big bag of drugs, but they just sent me home and told me to rest for a week or two and take plenty of chicken soup.

Seemed like an odd prescription, but it worked exactly as expected. I just laid around listening to music and reading (didn't have a TV then) and getting lots of sleep and chicken soup. Within a week I was fine. Possibly related to the fact that I was young and healthy, but it demonstrated the healing power of the body's own defenses.

 

[JoeWras]

FWIW, I asked my doc last week about what steps to take. I said I thought the ER would be the appropriate place only if I thought it was going into pneumonia, and he said I was right. The classic signs of pneumonia are (as said here elsewhere) cough, fever, and shortness of breath.

I've also heard to warn the ER if you really think you are at risk (say, came back from Italy) so that they can handle you with some isolation.

 

[GenXguy]

Of all the countries, the one I am most closely watching is South Korea.

As of March 3, they have tested 125,851 with 4,812 confirmed cases. Of the 4,812 confirmed, 34 discharged, 4750 isolated and 28 deceased.
Source: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/covid-19-testing/

So, of the 62 closed cases, 28 have deceased. I'm not liking that ratio!

Good news. Recoveries are up more than deaths since that post from a couple days ago. So, while South Korea now has 40 deaths, recoveries are up a lot more to 135. It can take weeks for COVID-19 to progress to a condition that causes death, so it will take time for these statistics to play out to have a meaningful mortality rate, but at least it's moving in a positive direction.

 

[tmm99]

FWIW, I asked my doc last week about what steps to take. I said I thought the ER would be the appropriate place only if I thought it was going into pneumonia, and he said I was right. The classic signs of pneumonia are (as said here elsewhere) cough, fever, and shortness of breath.

I've only had pneumonia once in my life, and that was when I was in my 20s (a very long time ago). I didn't know what it was, and just thought it was by far the worst cold I had ever had in my life. Just miserable. Went to the hospital on base where they took a culture and confirmed it was pneumonia. At that point I expected to be given a big bag of drugs, but they just sent me home and told me to rest for a week or two and take plenty of chicken soup.

Seemed like an odd prescription, but it worked exactly as expected. I just laid around listening to music and reading (didn't have a TV then) and getting lots of sleep and chicken soup. Within a week I was fine. Possibly related to the fact that I was young and healthy, but it demonstrated the healing power of the body's own defenses.

Although it was the worst cold you ever had, it wasn't as bad as my friend who I took to ER for - He was given an oxygen mask right away and was taken into ER and had to stay there for a few days. He was in his 40s then. It was viral pneumonia, so nothing else was given to him except for the oxygen, Tylenol (to lower his temp), and some saline solution via IV at the start. He was given a rental oxygen device to take home to recover there.

 

[Delaney]

According to WHO, as of 20 February 2020 and based on 55924 laboratory confirmed cases, typical signs and symptoms include:
fever (87.9%), dry cough (67.7%), fatigue (38.1%), sputum production (33.4%), shortness of breath (18.6%), sore throat (13.9%), headache (13.6%), myalgia or arthralgia (14.8%), chills (11.4%), nausea or vomiting (5.0%), nasal congestion (4.8%), diarrhea (3.7%), and hemoptysis (0.9%), and conjunctival congestion (0.8%).

From this WHO report:
https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...na-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf

 

[JoeWras]

I can't help but think some of what we are seeing reminds me of the stories my parents had about the polio outbreaks in the early 50s.

The diseases are different, for sure, but the public reaction seems to have an echo of those times.

I had a first-removed cousin who limped due to polio he got around age 11.

 

[sengsational]

Two links that may be of use.

Those lists of disinfectants is helpful. It would be even better if it provided the active ingredient and it's concentration along with contact time.

As mentioned, bleach is pretty darned good at killing stuff, and has been proven effective against this virus.

With some kinds of disinfectants, you could make your own wipes by just cutting up paper towels and putting them in a zip lock. But I'm pretty sure it was bleach that made paper towels go to mush, so that might not work very well. But I bet you wouldn't have the mush problem with isopropyl alcohol or hydrogen peroxide.

 

[JoeWras]

With some kinds of disinfectants, you could make your own wipes by just cutting up paper towels and putting them in a zip lock. But I'm pretty sure it was bleach that made paper towels go to mush, so that might not work very well. But I bet you wouldn't have the mush problem with isopropyl alcohol or hydrogen peroxide.

What about a bag of rags using bleach? Would they be safe after a hot wash and dry?

 

[gwraigty]

FWIW, I asked my doc last week about what steps to take. I said I thought the ER would be the appropriate place only if I thought it was going into pneumonia, and he said I was right. The classic signs of pneumonia are (as said here elsewhere) cough, fever, and shortness of breath.

I've only had pneumonia once in my life, and that was when I was in my 20s (a very long time ago). I didn't know what it was, and just thought it was by far the worst cold I had ever had in my life. Just miserable. Went to the hospital on base where they took a culture and confirmed it was pneumonia. At that point I expected to be given a big bag of drugs, but they just sent me home and told me to rest for a week or two and take plenty of chicken soup.

Seemed like an odd prescription, but it worked exactly as expected. I just laid around listening to music and reading (didn't have a TV then) and getting lots of sleep and chicken soup. Within a week I was fine. Possibly related to the fact that I was young and healthy, but it demonstrated the healing power of the body's own defenses.

I had pneumonia when I was 39. They gave me antibiotics and sent me home with orders to rest (doesn't work well with 2 young kids, but at least one was in school all day, the other a half day) and drink plenty of fluids. Except for the rest part, it worked. Before the antibiotics, I was coughing so much I strained my lower back. It took awhile to be able to straighten up fully when upright.

For sure, you know when your "cold" or "flu" isn't just that and your symptoms should have eased up already. Instead, they're getting worse.

 

[Bongleur]

If you scan through the lists, you will see many common household Clorox products used for cleaning.

Disinfecting surfaces is a trivial task, plenty of chemicals to do it.

The issue is what to use on your face & hands, when in public. Gloves help a lot. A face shield can offset the habit of touching your face. Then 80% ethanol.

 

[gwraigty]

Ohio got some test kits today. They'll be ready to start testing by late weekend. I expect to see some red dots here on the Johns Hopkins map any day now. They're awaiting test results from the CDC on 3 people now. All have respiratory symptoms and have either recently traveled from China or have a known contact with a confirmed case.

 

[Bongleur]

FWIW, I asked my doc last week about what steps to take. I said I thought the ER would be the appropriate place only if I thought it was going into pneumonia, and he said I was right. The classic signs of pneumonia are (as said here elsewhere) cough, fever, and shortness of breath.

So the CDC signs of COVID-19 are signs of ITS ALREADY VERY SERIOUS
Pretty useless advice...