Coronavirus - Travel impacts II

[ExFlyBoy5]

I was looking at flying to Alaska in early May but have held off on tickets. Well, now the prices on DAL are that of 1989, so thinking of booking. It appears that if there is a cancellation, you would get a credit that could be used through 2021 or could change your flight with no change fee or increase in cost if the fare is higher. I am still hesitant because I don't think this will be over before May, and airlines could file for bankruptcy, but not sure how probable that might be with DAL. Ah....decisions, decisions!

 

[Dtail]

If folks have bookings from Hotel.com/Expedia, I was given a lodging phone number from the Hampton Inn, as the regular call numbers have a 6-11 hour wait time.
In case folks need to cancel reservations.

The number is 866-430-4981.

 

[oldphd]

Update...

I sent the owner an e-mail asking how to go about booking the 50% off in the future, and then a second one letting her know we got home. It's our second rental through them and we've shared numerous e-mails, so sort of "know" each other electronically. She has not returned them in the time I'd expect based on experience. I'm guessing things are moving quickly, changing, and it will take time for everything to shake out.

Heard from the host today. Due to the extraordinary circumstances, they've decided to refund those of us who are cancelling during what is normally the no refund time period.

 

[ncbill]

Delta canceled our early morning flights back home, but automatically re-booked us on flights later that same day.

I wonder if the government will simply designate some airports as "must operate?"

Which probably won't include the regional airport to which we are returning.

 

[sengsational]

Force Majeure Clause

This is from a tour operator T's & C's document:

A party (the "Affected Party") shall not be held liable or deemed to be in default under this Agreement for any failure to perform its obligations if such failure results directly or indirectly from circumstances beyond the Affected Party's reasonable control ("Force Majeure"). Force Majeure includes but is not limited to strikes, lock-outs, civil warfare, flood or fire damage, environmental calamity, inclement weather, acts of God, legal enactment, governmental order, regulatory enactments and/or orders, imposition of sanctions by a country against the territory where any part of the Event is to held that adversely affects the staging of the Event or the import/export of a Vehicle into/out of any territory, any action taken by a governmental or public authority of any kind (including not granting a consent, exemption, approval or clearance), epidemic and disease, civil strife, terrorism (threatened or actual), and war. Subject to clause 11.2, the Affected Party must continue to perform its other obligations to the extent that they are not affected by the Force Majeure and must use all reasonable endeavours to overcome or remove the Force Majeure as quickly as possible.

If any event of Force Majeure delays or prevents the performance of the obligations of either party for a continuous period of fourteen (14) days, the party not so affected shall then be entitled to give notice to the Affected Party to terminate this Agreement with immediate effect without penalty. Such a termination notice shall be irrevocable except with the consent of both parties.

It sounds like that means if any of these 'bad things' happen, they can take your money and walk away. But how can that be legal? As is the case most of the time when an individual is entering into an agreement with a company, they write the agreement to protect the company, and the only thing they have to lose is their reputation if they don't treat their customers fairly.

From my perspective, offering a promise of the same trip at some distant future date doesn't have the same value as one in the near future. They even acknowledge that fact in the agreement by giving you the opportunity to get at least some of your money back if done far enough in advance of the start of the event.

 

[ivinsfan]

This is from a tour operator T's & C's document:



It sounds like that means if any of these 'bad things' happen, they can take your money and walk away. But how can that be legal? As is the case most of the time when an individual is entering into an agreement with a company, they write the agreement to protect the company, and the only thing they have to lose is their reputation if they don't treat their customers fairly.

From my perspective, offering a promise of the same trip at some distant future date doesn't have the same value as one in the near future. They even acknowledge that fact in the agreement by giving you the opportunity to get at least some of your money back if done far enough in advance of the start of the event.

I guess it's legal and there is more then a small chance some of these outfits will go bankrupt and you won't get a credit or your money back.

 

[sengsational]

I guess it's legal and there is more then a small chance some of these outfits will go bankrupt and you won't get a credit or your money back.

That's why I'm going after as much of my money as I can get via credit card disputes. I imagine that since the small outfits are in a fight for their lives, they'll put up a fight, but if their own contract has a refund schedule (where, as the date gets closer, less and less of the purchase price is refundable), they'd be hard pressed to convince the credit card company that the customer shouldn't have money back, based on that schedule.

 

[Chuckanut]

Yosemite is closed. No Entry.

The NPS has closed Yosemite NP completely. Not only the guest facilities, nobody is allowed to enter at all.

https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/news...ons-to-implement-latest-health-guidance-2.htm

Yosemite National Park has modified operations at the request of the local health department. Yosemite National Park is closed to all park visitors until further notice.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

That's why I'm going after as much of my money as I can get via credit card disputes. I imagine that since the small outfits are in a fight for their lives, they'll put up a fight, but if their own contract has a refund schedule (where, as the date gets closer, less and less of the purchase price is refundable), they'd be hard pressed to convince the credit card company that the customer shouldn't have money back, based on that schedule.

What happens if the tour company simply goes out of business? The credit card company won't be able to get money from them any more than we could.

IIRC, many credit cards have a sort of "trip insurance" so that if the tour is paid on the card and then cancelled and the tour company stiffs you, the credit card will pay you.
I think...

 

[sengsational]

There is a significant risk that tour companies will go belly-up, so being first in line with a dispute is probably the best move if you want your money. The greatest chance of getting nothing, it seems to me, is accepting a voucher for distant future travel.

 

[Ready]

What happens if the tour company simply goes out of business? The credit card company won't be able to get money from them any more than we could.

IIRC, many credit cards have a sort of "trip insurance" so that if the tour is paid on the card and then cancelled and the tour company stiffs you, the credit card will pay you.
I think...

Credit card companies charge a percentage of every transaction as a fee to cover the cost of running their business, which includes the cost of protecting the consumer against disputed transactions where a merchant fails to perform a service or ship a product. If the company goes out of the business the credit card company likely will take a loss but that’s built into their fee schedule.

 

[davebarnes]

Happy with AirBnB

We are very pleased with AirBnB's actions.
Received 95+% refunds on cancelled reservations in Genova, Nice and Lyon.
The hosts in Genova and Lyon were very agreeable, but Cecilia in Nice was a jerk.

P.S. One week into our quarantine and all is well.

P.P.S. My heart is breaking for Italia and all the wonderful people we met there.

 

[audreyh1]

The NPS has closed Yosemite NP completely. Not only the guest facilities, nobody is allowed to enter at all.

https://www.nps.gov/yose/learn/news...ons-to-implement-latest-health-guidance-2.htm

Apparently a major problem was visitors arriving in groups and staying close socializing. Also, visitors weren’t prepared to deal closed bathrooms.

 

[explanade]

We are very pleased with AirBnB's actions.
Received 95+% refunds on cancelled reservations in Genova, Nice and Lyon.
The hosts in Genova and Lyon were very agreeable, but Cecilia in Nice was a jerk.

P.S. One week into our quarantine and all is well.

P.P.S. My heart is breaking for Italia and all the wonderful people we met there.

How far out were your reservations?

 

[ncbill]

Successfully returned home today...two domestic flights.

Looks like Delta consolidated the 2-3/day flights we flew down to one daily.

And moved to much smaller jets...fairly crowded onboard.

What made the biggest impression on me was my regional airport...normally the multistory parking garage is full of several hundred vehicles, as it was when we departed a week ago...when we arrived only a couple dozen vehicles were left.

 

[davebarnes]

How far out were your reservations?

2 Genova (09MAR2020)
6 Nice
10 Lyon

 

[Sunset]

We are very pleased with AirBnB's actions.
Received 95+% refunds on cancelled reservations in Genova, Nice and Lyon.
The hosts in Genova and Lyon were very agreeable, but Cecilia in Nice was a jerk.

P.S. One week into our quarantine and all is well.

P.P.S. My heart is breaking for Italia and all the wonderful people we met there.

Were your reservations for March or April or May or farther in the future ?

Wondering on AirBnb cancellation, seems it only goes as far as April 14th.

 

[harllee]

I too am wondering about Air BNB reservations. We have an Airbnb reservation starting May 1 that we need to cancel but their cancellation policy seems to run only to April 14.

 

[DrRoy]

Arrived home yesterday from our aborted trip out west. We were almost a week in Page, AZ, and things were closing nearby. We were supposed to go to Moab, UT for two more weeks but just headed for home. On the first day coming back we heard that Moab had closed all lodging so it was for sure the right call, but still disappointing. Our VRBO in Moab will be refunded.

A later photography tour in backcountry Utah was cancelled and refunded 87%, with the remainder as a future credit. The air on Delta is now a credit that is good for booking W/O penalty through early Jan. '21, but I do not know now what I would use it for.

The combined spending for all of this including guiding for special photography, lodging, food, etc. is about $5000. That will be cash for us but lost economic activity.

 

[misanman]

Credit Card Coverage

Credit card companies charge a percentage of every transaction as a fee to cover the cost of running their business, which includes the cost of protecting the consumer against disputed transactions where a merchant fails to perform a service or ship a product. If the company goes out of the business the credit card company likely will take a loss but that’s built into their fee schedule.

Obviously quite a few years ago but our trip to England was interrupted by 9/11 (we were scheduled to leave on 9/12) and the outfit we purchased our tickets from went out of business. We filed a claim with MasterCard and they covered the total cost of our tickets without any hassle.

 

[athena53]

Successfully returned home today...two domestic flights.

Looks like Delta consolidated the 2-3/day flights we flew down to one daily.

And moved to much smaller jets...fairly crowded onboard.

What made the biggest impression on me was my regional airport...normally the multistory parking garage is full of several hundred vehicles, as it was when we departed a week ago...when we arrived only a couple dozen vehicles were left.

I saw some of this, too. Left Kansas City on March 10 and even then the terminal seemed eerily quiet for a weekday morning. My flight home from Bolivia 3/18 was 4 segments and I never would have booked that if I had choices, but I didn't. (Starting 3/20, Bolivia was closing its airports to all arriving and departing international flights.) Layover of only 1.25 hours in Santa Cruz, Bolivia before the all-important flight from Santa Cruz (VVI) to Miami, 4 hours in Miami (needed to go through Passport Control, Customs, get and re-check bags), an hour layover in Houston.

It all worked. Left VVI an hour late but landed at MIA only 15 minutes late, Immigration wasn't any crazier than I'd experienced at any other entry port, and I suspect it was because air traffic was down and we weren't coming from a high-risk area. Everything else ran on time. On an average day I suspect I would have missed a connection somewhere.

 

[NW-Bound]

Just found out DD and her family are going to South America for spring break in a couple of weeks. Kids, gotta love them.

I just remember this.

I wonder if BWE's DD family is back in the US safely. South American countries are closed down.

 

[sengsational]

Obviously quite a few years ago but our trip to England was interrupted by 9/11 (we were scheduled to leave on 9/12) and the outfit we purchased our tickets from went out of business. We filed a claim with MasterCard and they covered the total cost of our tickets without any hassle.

That's good to know. Once we get farther into this, and the dispute cases start getting resolved (one way or the other), we (as in this forum community) should probably compare notes on which cards are siding with the airlines and travel companies, and which card companies are siding with customers. For years, every dispute I opened went my way without any back and forth. Recently, two disputes went back and forth. I won one case outright and split the difference on the other (server increased the tip and I disputed the whole thing, but ended up paying the non-tip amount).

Anyway, I hope that just collecting proof that they cancelled the service (did not deliver what I bought) is enough. Right now, one flight is not yet cancelled (they did cancel all flights up to March 31, but my flight is April 14). They'll probably extend cancellation past the March 31st date, and that's the point I'll dispute that one. But if they fly the route that day, it would be harder to justify getting my money back.

 

[luckydude]

OZ officials are trying to round up passengers from the cruise ship Ruby Princess (of the Princess Cruises). Four passengers from the cruise ship tested positive after the ship had docked and all passengers disembarked in Sydney:

https://news.yahoo.com/officials-scrambling-round-3-800-064520224.html

Even now, there are still multiple cruise ships sailing, some with infected passengers, others not:

https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-costa-cruises-norwegian-holland-163207612.html

These passengers likely face a long journey home with travel restrictions now imposed all over the world.

Lucky Dude

 

[Bestwifeever]

I just remember this.

I wonder if BWE's DD family is back in the US safely. South American countries are closed down.

Thanks for asking! They were supposed to go there on 3/21 but yes, they had already bailed on the trip two weeks before that—after getting their kids and themselves vaccinated for yellow fever and typhoid a month before they were supposed to go (not related to COVID-19).