COVID-19 Health and Preparedness - Strictly Moderated

[sengsational]

I agree that having the family get together is a mistake. However, I also think getting carryout/delivery prepared food is nuts. There's no way to know who made it, and there's no way to make it safe. At least with raw foods you can wash or cook it or whatever. But we're not eating anything we haven't prepared ourselves while this is all going on. I wish we could, but it just doesn't make sense.

I think it's a good plan. Our plans also do NOT include take-out or delivery food, but I can understand why or how some people will not go that far. I can't promise we'll be able to hold-out for as many months as this will take. If I did get delivered food, I'd say not all foods are the same. Anything cold or room temperature and obviously handled to assemble it would be a problem. But a pizza, right out of the oven and into a box, maybe not as much risk, so maybe not totally a crazy idea.

 

[Alan]

I think it's a good plan. Our plans also do NOT include take-out or delivery food, but I can understand why or how some people will not go that far. I can't promise we'll be able to hold-out for as many months as this will take. If I did get delivered food, I'd say not all foods are the same. Anything cold or room temperature and obviously handled to assemble it would be a problem. But a pizza, right out of the oven and into a box, maybe not as much risk, so maybe not totally a crazy idea.

Agreed.

Last night we had fish and chips from the local “chippie”. Battered fish and chips lifted straight from the hot fat in slotted utensils and into cardboard boxes. Pay by contactless card. (Apple Pay actually)

 

[harley]

Yeah, maybe nuts was the wrong word. And the pizza example is good, although I'm not sure whether the virus would survive the trip through the over. Probably not. As long as the person cutting it up isn't coughing on it or something it's probably safe. But I used to work in food service, and it was never a model of health and cleanliness back then. Maybe they've gotten better.

 

[JoeWras]

We're considering take out, but also have pause to think about it.

Here's the deal: the demographic that prepares much of the food is 18 to 40. These are fine people, I don't want to get into the spring break generation war. My concern is they feel absolutely fine but are shedding virus and don't know it. Seems to be a problem with the younger people, based on all the stories coming out of 20 and 30 somethings having dinner together where everyone feels fine, until 4 days later they all get sick simultaneously.

I’m pretty sure when and where I picked up the virus — from a small gathering attended by my husband and several of my friends, a few of whom got sick too. But no one knows who dropped it off. No one from the gathering was coughing or sneezing.
https://www.seattletimes.com/life/w...rus-from-someone-who-recovered-from-covid-19/

 

[ivinsfan]

I agree that having the family get together is a mistake. However, I also think getting carryout/delivery prepared food is nuts. There's no way to know who made it, and there's no way to make it safe. At least with raw foods you can wash or cook it or whatever. But we're not eating anything we haven't prepared ourselves while this is all going on. I wish we could, but it just doesn't make sense.

We're considering seeing some grandkids and their parents., both us and DD's family have been on lockdown for around 10 days.And I mean nothing more then a grocery on line pickup for both families.

Risk seems minimal to non existent..Haven't made the final call yet.

 

[REWahoo]

Risk seems minimal to non existent...

If we were talking about the flu I would agree with you. We aren't and I don't.

 

[ivinsfan]

If we were talking about the flu I would agree with you. We aren't and I don't.

So how long would be good for you..10 days.. 14 days ...21 days...I'm talking about no outside contact period. I agree if even one of the family members is out with the public no contact but not sure what I think about the above situation.

I'm curious what others think. In theory you'd be more exposed wandering around Wal Mart for an hour.

 

[harley]

So how long would be good for you..10 days.. 14 days ...21 days...I'm talking about no outside contact period. I agree if even one of the family members is out with the public no contact but not sure what I think about the above situation.

I'm curious what others think. In theory you'd be more exposed wandering around Wal Mart for an hour.

I don't agree. In Walmart you can take precautions yourself, but eating food prepared by others you can't see behind the curtain.

 

[ivinsfan]

I don't agree. In Walmart you can take precautions yourself, but eating food prepared by others you can't see behind the curtain.

I was talking about having a visit from my DD's family when all of us have been on lockdown for at least 10 days. I agree with you about take out food and won't do it.

 

[Sunset]

We got Chinese takeout, 3 lunch orders to minimize trips.
I wore gloves picking up the bag of food, and they already have the CC machine set for customers to use (they used to take your CC and swipe it).

My thought was the hot food would be clean to put into the containers.
I used scissors to cut open the bag, touching as little as possible, and washed my hands right away.

We ate one, hopefully you can't get the covid-19 from eating it.
Other 2 I put in fridge, those we will microwave to heat up, so that will kill all.
I'll need to bleach wipe that shelf in fridge when the food is gone.

Now I thinking this might not have been a good idea...

 

[REWahoo]

So how long would be good for you..10 days.. 14 days ...21 days...I'm talking about no outside contact period. I agree if even one of the family members is out with the public no contact but not sure what I think about the above situation.

I'm not sure there is any good answer to that question because of the widely reported asymptomatic cases of Covid-19. Maybe one family member had such a case and passed it to another family member who is also asymptomatic? Improbable, yes, but not impossible. I know 14 days is the standard but I'd feel better with 21 days or longer.

The ultimate question for me is this: do I need a personal visit with my kids/grandkids so badly that I'm willing to take a risk - even a tiny one - with DW's life - or mine? (We're in our early 70's).

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

We got Chinese takeout, 3 lunch orders to minimize trips.
I wore gloves picking up the bag of food, and they already have the CC machine set for customers to use (they used to take your CC and swipe it).

My thought was the hot food would be clean to put into the containers.
I used scissors to cut open the bag, touching as little as possible, and washed my hands right away.

We ate one, hopefully you can't get the covid-19 from eating it.
Other 2 I put in fridge, those we will microwave to heat up, so that will kill all.
I'll need to bleach wipe that shelf in fridge when the food is gone.

Now I thinking this might not have been a good idea...

That seems reasonable. Remember, COVID-19 probably does not survive very long in hot (130F+) temperatures. We consider any cooked food that is put right into the container (pizza, Chinese food) safe, as all parts are probably over 300F during cooking, and consider the outsides of the containers contaminated, so we either take the food out of the containers and put it in/on our bowls/plates, or we wipe down the containers and anything they touch before we wipe them down. Although the outside of the Chinese food containers are VERY hot, almost too hot to handle, when we get them, so they're probably OK, but we're not taking too many unnecessary chances. My spouse doesn't want to do this any more, but I am concerned about the small, locally owned businesses in our area.

 

[gwraigty]

But it doesn't say shelter in place only if you are healthy if you're not well its even more important to shelter in place, why go out for a test that sa says you've got it now hurry back home

I'm not sure why you're quoting me. My comment about sheltering in place was to stress why skipro33's take on sheltering in place is incorrect as it has been clarified over and over again by the government officials who are using this phrase and/or implementing stringent policies. No, you absolutely should not socialize with other family members who live in separate households. This is a stressful time for all. No doubt about it. Some of us who have raised young kids didn't have anyone to bail us out or give us a break. We lived through it.

ETA: I do agree with your comment that I've quoted.

 

[ivinsfan]

I'm not sure there is any good answer to that question because of the widely reported asymptomatic cases of Covid-19. Maybe one family member had such a case and passed it to another family member who is also asymptomatic? Improbable, yes, but not impossible. I know 14 days is the standard but I'd feel better with 21 days or longer.

The ultimate question for me is this: do I need a personal visit with my kids/grandkids so badly that I'm willing to take a risk - even a tiny one - with DW's life - or mine? (We're in our early 70's).

Hearing rumors that our state MN might do a proactive shelter in place so this might not be an issue.

Let me put it back to you this way, we are around your age, what if you knew this might go on for a really really long time. Knowing that you can't get back lost time with grandkids when would a person start thinking. I need to live my life what's left of it with some interactions with my close family. I'll take every reasonable precaution but we're burning daylight here.

 

[oldphd]

How are they getting enough tests? and if the hospital is closed what's the point of testing everyone? I'm just trying to see the logic in some of this. This doesn't seen consistent with a shelter in place order.

Re:San Miguel County, CO

Saw a local news story on this last night. There is a couple in the area (Telluride?) that own a biomedical company and developed one of the tests for detecting the virus. They are donating the tests in the interest of testing everyone in a given area to see how prevalent it really is. People can refuse to take it if they want, they are hoping most will. How many people have it who are asymptomatic is one of the ongoing questions they'd like to gain some insight on.

This isn't the news story I saw, but covers it.

https://coloradosun.com/2020/03/20/telluride-san-miguel-county-coronavirus-covid19-testing/

 

[MRG]

How are they getting enough tests? and if the hospital is closed what's the point of testing everyone? I'm just trying to see the logic in some of this. This doesn't seen consistent with a shelter in place order.

Don't know how they're getting tests other than ski resorts are a big hotspot. They're going door to door testing everybody in the county. They'd have to evacuate the sick as there's no real hospital in Telluride, only a level 5 trama center that is open 8-5. Great for a broken leg. Telluride is 8750' so dealing with respiratory problems there is not an ideal situation.

 

[REWahoo]

..., what if you knew this might go on for a really really long time. Knowing that you can't get back lost time with grandkids when would a person start thinking. I need to live my life what's left of it with some interactions with my close family. I'll take every reasonable precaution but we're burning daylight here.

That's a question only you can answer for yourself. For me, our grandkids are older (11 to 21) so the need to see them isn't as strong as it was 10 years ago. But if this lasts long enough there will come a time...

 

[ivinsfan]

That's a question only you can answer for yourself. For me, our grandkids are older (11 to 21) so the need to see them isn't as strong as it was 10 years ago. But if this lasts long enough there will come a time...

9,8,7 and 4 old years old for us.

 

[Rianne]

So much wrong with this but I'll address the first point. Testing is absolutely necessary to identify where there are hot spots, where we are in the overall curve of the viral spread, and where to deploy resources and extra measures. Yes, of course, treat everyone like they have it, but more importantly, act yourself as if YOU have it in how YOU behave to others.

The rest of the comments he made, it I have no time for.

other than to say....

*** mod hat on ***

This is the thread for actual health and preparedness info and recommendations. We have so many other threads for more casual discussions so please find a place for those types of posts in other locations to keep this one as a central - helpful - resource.

You're singing to the choir here. Just pointing out there are people who believe this is the way to handle the situation. Simply saying "what planet do you live, DF of husband?" And I was not able to ask him why he didn't let his heart condition to take its course. Would have been a good question to ask.

 

[Kwirk]

We've been getting take-out via curb service from our favorite restaurants (and tipping well) in hopes that they'll be able to hang on. We order only hot food that can be reheated at home and take considerable precautions with the packaging. There will be no take-out salads or salsas but curries, most Chinese, and pizzas are still delicious.

 

[Teacher Terry]

We aren’t seeing anyone including family. We talk on the phone.

 

[ivinsfan]

Don't know how they're getting tests other than ski resorts are a big hotspot. They're going door to door testing everybody in the county. They'd have to evacuate the sick as there's no real hospital in Telluride, only a level 5 trama center that is open 8-5. Great for a broken leg. Telluride is 8750' so dealing with respiratory problems there is not an ideal situation.

There is an interesting backstory to this..just google Tellluride and see for yourself.. don't want to do it injustice by shortening it up.

 

[sengsational]

Now that testing is starting to ramp up so is the number of positive tests. Given the low number of total tests to date it looks like the number of positive results will continue to rise for a while. With all the shelter in place orders hopefully we'll see a flattening of the curve soon.

https://covidtracking.com/us-daily/

I listened to Peter Hotez on the Peter Attia netcast and he's saying that we're just now picking up transmission that's been going on for a few weeks. More telling is the doctors in hospitals in large US cities, are telling him they are "already feeling overwhelmed, even this early in the epidemic". He's very worried about unprotected healthcare workers. He's talking about adding medics from public health service or military. Another idea to protect healthcare workers and first responders is to utilize harvested antibodies (convalescent serum), but it only protects for a few weeks.

They talked about the recent news about how the age distribution of those affected is skewed much younger in the US than in China. "Half of those hospitalized are under the age of 54" was quoted.

They mentioned a study of non-human primates that indicated that immunity is conferred after having the disease.

They mentioned a study of Kaletra (HIV drug) that was not effective at improving people who are severely ill with the disease. A small study of hydroxychloroquin looked good, but might be over hyping it. It's cheap and available. Getting a mixed picture on ACE2 inhibitors and ARB's, and need a lot more learning needs to be done. Camostat, a drug used in Japan for pancreatitis, was mentioned.

They addressed getting your mail and packages, and it didn't concern Hotez, but he said you could wipe it down with an approved product, but your main concern should be staying away from other people as the likely mode of transmission.

As for take-out and groceries, Hotez, he's not doing anything different. Tests on SARS-1 indicate 132F for 15 minutes should do it (Attia said 140F 150F). Hotez was concerned about the mental health aspect of doing all of these changes in lifestyle and suggested that video counseling might be a good idea.

https://peterattiamd.com/peterhotez2/

 

[Rianne]

Went to grocery store yesterday. Fresh fruits and veg stocked as usual. Very busy, heads down, self check out pretty busy. I wore surgical gloves then took them off after, sanitized hands. How far does one go? Store workers actively stocking shelves. I can't get hung up on every single thing I touch has the virus. My mental health has to stay in check too. Here's an article from March 13 about fresh fruits and vegs.
https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/rel...nd-veggies-as-virus-concerns-grip-nation.html

 

[explanade]

DH had a long phone conversation with his good friend from megacorp. This friend is recuperating from quadruple by pass surgery. I found his take on the CV19 pandemic interesting, especially with his condition.

-testing unnecessary, treat everyone like they have it
-let the virus complete its course naturally, it will be gone soon
-why are we collapsing our economy over this?
-if you get it, like any other disease or illness, treat it, get better or well...whatever comes next
-we've dealt with viruses since the beginning of time, they come they go


After DH explained his take to me, I thought of the end of the PBS documentary "Influenza 1918" The world basically forgot about it and moved on. The survivors who were interviewed said they wanted to forget, but still felt the pain of losing loved ones and friends.

There is a line of thought that the extreme measures for social distancing is causing the economy to grind to a stop and that this cure may kill more people than it saves.

Cramer had on some guest who was talking about the need to develop a serological test and widely test with it so that they can determine which people have immunity and isn't spreading the disease can go back to regular economic activity, such as working, being a consumer, etc.