COVID-19 Health and Preparedness - Strictly Moderated

[Fermion]

Thought I saw somewhere the news that there might not be enough migrant workers to do the harvesting.

"Corn, $0.50 a ear, you pick"

 

[sengsational]

Do Drugs?

Some preliminary work show that hydroxychloroquin might help with the disease by way of it's mechanism as a zinc ionophore (immunomodulator to limit the cytokine storm). It's a theory, at this point, but the drug seems to be showing efficacy in preliminary studies at 400mg twice the first day, and 200mg twice a day for the next 4 days. Then it stays in the lungs, probably a long time, but certainly at the high level for 5 days. Search Didier Raoult choroquine. Also, quercetin (OTC) is also a zinc ionophore, but the dose in the study was huge (3 to 7 grams a day), so I'm not sure that's anything to think about.

Also early, but the drug favipiravir looks like it has efficacy. It was a small, but double blind study against a different (and 'known ineffective') anti-viral drug.

So, stay home, not just because you'll "flatten the curve", but they might find a drug for you.

For those of you who are upset about people hoarding TP, save your outrage for people (doctors complicit with patients) that are starting to dry-up the supply of hydroxycloroquin (that's really needed for critical patients).

 

[explanade]

Some preliminary work show that hydroxychloroquin might help with the disease by way of it's mechanism as a zinc ionophore (immunomodulator to limit the cytokine storm). It's a theory, at this point, but the drug seems to be showing efficacy in preliminary studies at 400mg twice the first day, and 200mg twice a day for the next 4 days. Then it stays in the lungs, probably a long time, but certainly at the high level for 5 days. Search Didier Raoult choroquine. Also, quercetin (OTC) is also a zinc ionophore, but the dose in the study was huge (3 to 7 grams a day), so I'm not sure that's anything to think about.

Also early, but the drug favipiravir looks like it has efficacy. It was a small, but double blind study against a different (and 'known ineffective') anti-viral drug.

So, stay home, not just because you'll "flatten the curve", but they might find a drug for you.

For those of you who are upset about people hoarding TP, save your outrage for people (doctors complicit with patients) that are starting to dry-up the supply of hydroxycloroquin (that's really needed for critical patients).

Trials have started. The French guy didn't do proper randomized testing.

Chloroquin has an interesting history.

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/20/chloroquine-past-and-present

Apparently more people are asking for this drug.

 

[Dtail]

On a related note, how come New Jersey is never mentioned as one of the hot spots? IIRC, it has more cases than Washington state and California.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Many news outlets are reporting loss of sense of smell and taste as a harbinger of Covid-19 cases that take a turn for the worse. Interestingly, loss of taste and smell are also key signs of a zinc deficiency. Zinc helps with immunity. Zinc lozenges are known to inhibit other types of coronaviruses from replicating.

It doesn't hurt, and might help, to make sure you have a healthy diet with adequate zinc intake right now.

 

[MBAustin]

The two PhDs who produce this (most excellent) podcast have just dropped 6 episodes on all things COVID-19:

This Podcast Will Kill You

Don't judge by the name of it or the home page picture - these folks know their stuff and also are bringing on real experts. I listened to the first 3 of the 6 episodes and they are excellent.

I highly recommend all of their episodes as fascinating listening, but these are of course especially timely.

 

[razztazz]

Many news outlets are reporting loss of sense of smell and taste as a harbinger of Covid-19 cases that take a turn for the worse. Interestingly, loss of taste and smell are also key signs of a zinc deficiency. Zinc helps with immunity. Zinc lozenges are known to inhibit other types of coronaviruses from replicating.

It doesn't hurt, and might help, to make sure you have a healthy diet with adequate zinc intake right now.

Loss of taste and smell are also a sign of too much zinc


Please, don't conflate taking zinc lozenges with simply ingesting zinc as a mineral. Two different worlds. I think it's already been referenced here that the zinc lozenges work as they kill/maim microbes caught in your throat. ie kill on contact. Simply eating a lot of nuts (high zinc) or taking a zinc pill wouldn't do that.

 

[gwraigty]

Many news outlets are reporting loss of sense of smell and taste as a harbinger of Covid-19 cases that take a turn for the worse. Interestingly, loss of taste and smell are also key signs of a zinc deficiency. Zinc helps with immunity. Zinc lozenges are known to inhibiting other types of coronaviruses from replicating.

It doesn't hurt, and might help, to make sure you have a healthy diet with adequate zinc intake right now.

Interesting...I found this info...

AAO-HNS: ANOSMIA, HYPOSMIA, AND DYSGEUSIA SYMPTOMS OF CORONAVIRUS DISEASE

[March 22] Anecdotal evidence is rapidly accumulating from sites around the world that anosmia and dysgeusia are significant symptoms associated with the COVID-19 pandemic. Anosmia, in particular, has been seen in patients ultimately testing positive for the coronavirus with no other symptoms. We propose that these symptoms be added to the list of screening tools for possible COVID-19 infection. Anosmia, hyposmia, and dysgeusia in the absence of other respiratory disease such as allergic rhinitis, acute rhinosinusitis, or chronic rhinosinusitis should alert physicians to the possibility of COVID-19 infection and warrant serious consideration for self-isolation and testing of these individuals.

Feel free to ignore the last part about testing if you live in an area that is short on test kits. (Just about everywhere.)

They're learning new things all the time. I wonder if there's any reliable info available on whether it's inevitable that an entire household will become infected with the coronavirus when it starts with one person. Only testing of all household members could confirm this, of course, which isn't possible at this time. Taken another way, if one person has symptoms, would the other household members usually develop symptoms, or is it possible that the other household members may never develop symptoms?

 

[Sunset]

After seeing the video of a hospital in Madrid Spain with patients lying on the floor, I have more motivation to order my groceries online.

https://ca.yahoo.com/news/video-sho...n-coronavirus-pandemic-worsens-151050494.html

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Loss of taste and smell are also a sign of too much zinc


Please, don't conflate taking zinc lozenges with simply ingesting zinc as a mineral. Two different worlds. I think it's already been referenced here that the zinc lozenges work as they kill/maim microbes caught in your throat. ie kill on contact. Simply eating a lot of nuts (high zinc) or taking a zinc pill wouldn't do that.

Please don't discourage people from getting adequate amounts of zinc in their diet or discourage from other posters from making tips that might help and have no downside. Zinc is good for the immune system, virus or not.

"Zinc, an important mineral in human health, appears to affect how the immune system responds to stimulation, especially inflammation, new research shows. Zinc deficiency could play a role in chronic diseases such as cardiovascular disease, cancer and diabetes that involve inflammation. Such diseases often show up in older adults, who are more at risk for zinc deficiency....We think zinc deficiency is probably a bigger problem than most people realize," she said. "Preventing that deficiency is important." Understanding why older adults do not take in zinc as well is an important area for future research, Ho said. Additional research also is needed to better understand how zinc works in the body, she said."
Source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/03/150323142839.htm

"Zinc lozenges have been shown to reduce the duration of the common cold. Zinc deficiency has been linked to a variety of immune system abnormalities."
Source: https://web.stanford.edu/group/virus/corona/colds.html

Edited to add:

"Zinc taken orally (by mouth) may help to treat colds, but it can cause side effects and interact with medicines. Zinc is available in two forms—oral zinc (e.g., lozenges, tablets, syrup) and intranasal zinc (e.g., swabs and gels). A 2015 analysis of clinical trials found that oral zinc helps to reduce the length of colds when taken within 24 hours after symptoms start. Intranasal zinc has been linked to a severe side effect (irreversible loss of the sense of smell) and should not be used."

Source: Natural Products for the Cold and Flu: What Does the Science Say (from the National Institutes of Health)
https://nccih.nih.gov/health/tips/flucold.htm

 

[razztazz]

Please don't discourage people from getting adequate amounts of zinc in their diet or discourage from other posters from making tips that might help and have no downside.

I didn't. Thank you

 

[audreyh1]

Many news outlets are reporting loss of sense of smell and taste as a harbinger of Covid-19 cases that take a turn for the worse. Interestingly, loss of taste and smell are also key signs of a zinc deficiency. Zinc helps with immunity. Zinc lozenges are known to inhibit other types of coronaviruses from replicating.

It doesn't hurt, and might help, to make sure you have a healthy diet with adequate zinc intake right now.

From what I read zinc does have side effects so you do have to be careful with zinc and avoid getting too much. Best read up on it before taking.

I do have a daily supplement along with vitamin C and some other minerals, but it’s far less than what Coldeze has you taking a day.

I notice prices for a Coldeze bag of lozenges on Amazon starting at $25.99!! Versus $4.99 at RiteAid.

 

[explanade]

There's been a run on hydroxychloroquine with dentists writing scripts for themselves and friends, as potential prophylactic for the virus.

Lupus patients who require it are finding it backordered in many places.

 

[stepford]

Some good information here on face mask decontamination for re-use. Handy for those who have only a few, and maybe vital for healthcare professionals encountering shortages.

https://stanfordmedicine.app.box.com/v/covid19-PPE-1-1

Short summary - heat at 160F in your oven for 30 minutes. Don't wash or bleach.

 

[sengsational]

Good info, stepford!

 

[Chuckanut]

Interesting article In The New Yorker. It seems that contamination is most likely when you spend 30 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person without a mask. I think this assumes no physical contact.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/keeping-the-coronavirus-from-infecting-health-care-workers

“In Hong Kong, “close contact” means fifteen minutes at a distance of less than six feet and without the use of a surgical mask; in Singapore, thirty minutes.”


.”Those of us who must go out into the world and have contact with people don’t have to panic if we find out that someone with the coronavirus has been in the same room or stood closer than we wanted for a moment. Transmission seems to occur primarily through sustained exposure in the absence of basic protection or through the lack of hand hygiene after contact with secretions.”

 

[Sunset]

There's been a run on hydroxychloroquine with dentists writing scripts for themselves and friends, as potential prophylactic for the virus.

Lupus patients who require it are finding it backordered in many places.

A fellow in AZ died and his wife is in hospital after taking it. They went to the hospital 30 minutes after taking it.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/23/health/arizona-coronavirus-chloroquine-death/index.html

 

[tmm99]

They found that the coronavirus can survive for 17 days. You read it right; 17 days.

I need to rethink my Amazon deliveries and other surface contamination related strategies...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/cdc...bins-up-to-17-days-after-passengers-left.html

 

[ivinsfan]

They found that the coronavirus can survive for 17 days. You read it right; 17 days.

I need to rethink my Amazon deliveries and other surface contamination related strategies...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/cdc...bins-up-to-17-days-after-passengers-left.html

My take on this is that cruise ships are petri dishes.....which anyone with half a brain knew anyway. Also cabins of passengers that did not have/get the virus we also full of contamination. The actual viral loads in those cabins must have been off the charts.

Typical CDC stuff to try and scare the crap out of people.

 

[cathy63]

FiveThirtyEight has a good article today on how Coronavirus tests work and why we aren't able to do more of them in the U.S. It's a clear, understandable explanation of the science that doesn't require a PhD in Biology to make sense of it.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-coronavirus-tests-actually-work/

 

[MBAustin]

They found that the coronavirus can survive for 17 days. You read it right; 17 days.

I need to rethink my Amazon deliveries and other surface contamination related strategies...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/cdc...bins-up-to-17-days-after-passengers-left.html

If you listen to the COVID-19 podcast I linked above, you will find that the mere presence of virus on a surface does not automatically mean you can catch the disease from it. They are still doing research on the amount of virus required to be infectious, and the article you linked said that the amount of virus on the surfaces decreased over time. So I would not assume that leaving packages outside for 17 days is necessary or even a good idea.

 

[Dtail]

If you listen to the COVID-19 podcast I linked above, you will find that the mere presence of virus on a surface does not automatically mean you can catch the disease from it. They are still doing research on the amount of virus required to be infectious, and the article you linked said that the amount of virus on the surfaces decreased over time. So I would not assume that leaving packages outside for 17 days is necessary or even a good idea.

I hope not, since we get weekly packages from Home Chef.

 

[ERD50]

Interesting article In The New Yorker. It seems that contamination is most likely when you spend 30 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person without a mask. I think this assumes no physical contact.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/keeping-the-coronavirus-from-infecting-health-care-workers

“In Hong Kong, “close contact” means fifteen minutes at a distance of less than six feet and without the use of a surgical mask; in Singapore, thirty minutes.”


.”Those of us who must go out into the world and have contact with people don’t have to panic if we find out that someone with the coronavirus has been in the same room or stood closer than we wanted for a moment. Transmission seems to occur primarily through sustained exposure in the absence of basic protection or through the lack of hand hygiene after contact with secretions.”

They found that the coronavirus can survive for 17 days. You read it right; 17 days.

I need to rethink my Amazon deliveries and other surface contamination related strategies...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/23/cdc...bins-up-to-17-days-after-passengers-left.html

If you listen to the COVID-19 podcast I linked above, you will find that the mere presence of virus on a surface does not automatically mean you can catch the disease from it. They are still doing research on the amount of virus required to be infectious, and the article you linked said that the amount of virus on the surfaces decreased over time. So I would not assume that leaving packages outside for 17 days is necessary or even a good idea.

Yes, looking at above post from Chuckanut, there's a huge difference between some virus "surviving" (in a weakened state at that point I assume?), and having enough of a viral load to actually infect someone (especially someone not in comprised condition), like being within 6 feet of an infected, living, breathing person for 30 minutes. Huge, huge difference.

I hope to find some credible info on this later, specific to Corona-virus. But consider there are germs all around us 24 hours a day. Botulism is prevalent, especially on potatoes, and the spores survive boiling! Yet, botulism is pretty rare, and normal precautions keep us safe.

Another thing I found interesting, while we always hear about how germ-laden money is, it was also said that porous surfaces like that tend to trap the germs, and don't release them easily. So just because something has the germs, it doesn't mean they are likely to spread them. I would imagine that on a virus level, cardboard is a porous trap. Probably like us falling in a 300 foot deep pit of cotton candy?

Relax, take precautions, but keep things in perspective, and... relax.

-ERD50

 

[Kwirk]

RNA is just part of a virus. RNA alone is not infectious. A complete virus is made up of RNA, proteins, lipids,... The presence of RNA does NOT mean that the virus has survived. Please be careful with your conclusions.

 

[audreyh1]

Interesting article In The New Yorker. It seems that contamination is most likely when you spend 30 minutes within 6 feet of an infected person without a mask. I think this assumes no physical contact.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/keeping-the-coronavirus-from-infecting-health-care-workers

“In Hong Kong, “close contact” means fifteen minutes at a distance of less than six feet and without the use of a surgical mask; in Singapore, thirty minutes.”


.”Those of us who must go out into the world and have contact with people don’t have to panic if we find out that someone with the coronavirus has been in the same room or stood closer than we wanted for a moment. Transmission seems to occur primarily through sustained exposure in the absence of basic protection or through the lack of hand hygiene after contact with secretions.”

Thanks for the link. That makes sense to me, because gatherings seem to be a major culprit in transmission - gatherings where people are face-to-face socializing or working or in meetings/conferences/classes for a period of time. As well as medical and personal care situations of course.