Mix and match vaccine trial

[Time2]

I received my Moderna booster yesterday, I had two Moderna jabs before that. My wife and son had the J&J. I talked with my doc about the J&J and a Moderna booster, his office is leaning towards not mixing. I am interested in hearing updates of this study, after it is not preliminary and has been peer reviewed.
If anyone sees a release about that please post it here.

I should have added the link to the study I referenced.


https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/us-expected-authorize-mix-match-covid-booster-shots-80662146


I'd like to see more about the study. Is there a way to look up what is printed as " a government study" ?

 

[CRLLS]

I had my Pfizer booster last week after getting the first 2 Pfizer shots. DW had the first 2 Moderna injections and decided that getting the Pfizer booster now was better than waiting for the Moderna booster to be available which se did last week also. She did notice faster recovery from the P booster shot than she had from the original M shots. None was significant. Just slightly sore arms for a few days. Oddly, we both had regular Flu shots in the other arm at the same time as the boosters. For the both of us, discerning any discomfort level or duration between the Flu and Covid shots was not possible. They were virtually identical.

 

[Time2]

I had my Pfizer booster last week after getting the first 2 Pfizer shots. DW had the first 2 Moderna injections and decided that getting the Pfizer booster now was better than waiting for the Moderna booster to be available which se did last week also. She did notice faster recovery from the P booster shot than she had from the original M shots. None was significant. Just slightly sore arms for a few days. Oddly, we both had regular Flu shots in the other arm at the same time as the boosters. For the both of us, discerning any discomfort level or duration between the Flu and Covid shots was not possible. They were virtually identical.

Not sure you can count on a faster recovery after Pfizer, I had the Moderna booster and all I had a was sore arm for a day, and no body affect. Whereas with the first two, I was just feeling off for a day, and then fine.

 

[YVRRocketSurgery]

Just to add some colour, in Canada we've had a significant cohort of mix and match vaccinations due to a push for taking the first available vaccine, multiple streams of vaccinations (age, first responders, communities, pop-ups, pharmacy, etc), and then dropping AZ and keeping only Pfizer and Moderna (to keep things simpler?).

A number of people, including quite a few of my friends, got a first shot of AZ in late April and then Pfizer or Moderna as a second shot in late June. My mom got Moderna for her first shot and Pfizer for her second.

They're in early stages of starting boosters here in BC and I think people will have a choice between Pfizer or Moderna.

The general communications has been that mixing and matching seems to be more effective (though personally, I haven't dove into the reports).

 

[braumeister]

See if they have the pumpkin spice version; I hear it's the most popular right now.

 

[Chuckanut]

J.

The general communications has been that mixing and matching seems to be more effective (though personally, I haven't dove into the reports).

I hope to visit Europe next year, but as of now the Covid rate in many European countries is rising. What I don't know is what percent are new cases among those not vaccinated, relatively mild breakthrough cases, and serious breakthrough cases. I wish the people who publish this information would be more detailed.

So far I am a Pfizer guy, but if I need another booster and a more current version is not available, I think I will go for Moderna just to play the diversity card.

 

[ivinsfan]

Chuckanut there's pretty widespread agreement that Moderna appears to offer superior protection.

 

[Scuba]

But the Moderna half booster is still stronger than the Pfizer full booster.

I’m not sure of the basis for my doctor’s recommendation, but I trust him. He’s done a great job looking after my husband and me for 25+ years. So I followed his advice about taking the Pfizer booster rather than J&J or the half dose of Moderna. I think there is a lot we still don’t know about the boosters so we just have to make the best decision we can and rely on information sources that we trust. For us, that’s our doctor.

 

[Koolau]

But the Moderna half booster is still stronger than the Pfizer full booster.

I hope that is correct. We started with Moderna because that was what was available at CVS at the time. We'll stick with Moderna now, having heard good things about it. No idea if any of this applies to individuals, however, so YMMV.

 

[gayl]

Just to add some colour, in Canada we've had a significant cohort of mix and match vaccinations due to a push for taking the first available vaccine, multiple streams of vaccinations (age, first responders, communities, pop-ups, pharmacy, etc), and then dropping AZ and keeping only Pfizer and Moderna (to keep things simpler?).

....

The general communications has been that mixing and matching seems to be more effective (though personally, I haven't dove into the reports).

I originally got the J&J, not because I wanted a shot but because I anticipated needing it to cruise. I hate shots & that was 1 and done. But switched to the Moderna booster because someone here stated it provided over 75× more protection and the Philharmonic & another cruise in 16 days, Pfizer was in the mid 40s, and J&J was only 4× additional protection. (See, I listen). Fortunately the pharmacist or NP (not sure which) let everyone pick whatever they wanted. I felt sick the 1st night so I just drank a large glass of wine and slept. Yesterday my arm was sore. But 36 hrs later I'm fine.

Hope this isn't a yearly thing.

 

[Chuckanut]

I originally got the J&J, not because I wanted a shot but because I anticipated needing it to cruise. I hate shots & that was 1 and done. But switched to the Moderna booster because someone here stated it provided over 75× more protection and the Philharmonic & another cruise in 16 days, Pfizer was in the mid 40s, and J&J was only 4× additional protection. (See, I listen). Fortunately the pharmacist or NP (not sure which) let everyone pick whatever they wanted. I felt sick the 1st night so I just drank a large glass of wine and slept. Yesterday my arm was sore. But 36 hrs later I'm fine.

Hope this isn't a yearly thing.

+1 on your hope.

But the realist in me thinks it will be yearly for at least 2-3 more years. We will need to Grin and Bear It.

 

[Alan]

As mentioned above it turned out that we had Novavax as our 2nd blind vaccine, AstraZenecca was our first and we had zero side effects with the 2nd jab so that if we had not known otherwise would have thought we had been given a placebo. It appears that Novavax also generates “a robust response” when combined with either AstraZenecca or Pfizer. We both had zero side effects, unlike the AZ and Pfizer jabs we had and that also appears to be a finding in the study. (We had Pfizer as our booster a couple of weeks ago). It also looks like Novavax is about to be approved in the UK and with the very low side effects plus high efficacy may well be the vaccine of choice in the UK when/if they decide to offer Covid vaccines to the under 12s

https://www.theguardian.com/society...th-covid-vaccine-in-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Clinical trials suggest that two doses of the Novavax jab have an efficacy of about 90% against symptomatic Covid – similar to the other approved UK vaccines. It is also undergoing “mix and match” testing with the Oxford/AstraZeneca or Pfizer/BioNTech jabs and preliminary data suggest it generates a robust immune response when given as the second dose.

But it is the emerging signs of reduced side-effects that could make Novavax particularly attractive.

Trial data appear to show the potential for lower “reactogenicity” compared with existing jabs, meaning side-effects such as injection-site swelling, fatigue, headaches and muscle pain occur less frequently. No direct head-to-head comparisons have yet been done, however, and further studies are needed.

 

[anethum]

Trial data appear to show the potential for lower “reactogenicity” compared with existing jabs, meaning side-effects such as injection-site swelling, fatigue, headaches and muscle pain occur less frequently.

I was very interested to read, and also somewhat surprised, that the Novavax vaccine generally has few side-effects. The reason I am surprised is that the Novavax vaccine contains an adjuvant made from saponins derived from the bark of a Chilean tree, Quillaja saponaria. The Shingrix vaccine also contains an adjuvant derived from the same tree, and that adjuvant was thought to be the reason why side-effects from Shingrix tend to be stronger than other vaccines. The adjuvant is also thought to be an important part of why Shingrix has a high efficacy. Shingrix was the first human vaccine to use an adjuvant from Quillaja saponaria. I believe that the Shingrix and Novavax adjuvants are not 100% identical, but both contain saponins from the same tree bark. The Novavax adjuvant apparently contains 2 molecules isolated from the tree bark. One of those molecules is in the Shingrix vaccine. I believe that Novavax patented their adjuvant, "Matrix-M", which contains other molecules as well.

I had a severe reaction from my 1st Shingrix dose (complete deafness in one ear, fortunately reversed thanks to prompt treatment with an oral steroid). My primary care physician, as well as two friends who are physicians, all told me to not get the 2nd Shingrix dose, and I followed their advice. My PCP also put an entry in my electronic medical record stating that I am "allergic" to Shingrix. Because of my experience with Shingrix, I decided that I would not have gotten the Novavax vaccine had it been available to me. That didn't stop me from getting vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, which was the first Covid vaccine I was able to get. I had minimal side effects to all 3 Pfizer doses I've now received, and I've never had any strong side effects to any other vaccine, including Zostovax, the earlier, less effective, shingles vaccine.

Here's an interesting article about the adjuvant in the Novavax vaccine, as well as information about the Chilean plant.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ope-new-vaccines-if-supplies-last-2021-10-06/

 

[Alan]

I was very interested to read, and also somewhat surprised, that the Novavax vaccine generally has few side-effects. The reason I am surprised is that the Novavax vaccine contains an adjuvant made from saponins derived from the bark of a Chilean tree, Quillaja saponaria. The Shingrix vaccine also contains an adjuvant derived from the same tree, and that adjuvant was thought to be the reason why side-effects from Shingrix tend to be stronger than other vaccines. The adjuvant is also thought to be an important part of why Shingrix has a high efficacy. Shingrix was the first human vaccine to use an adjuvant from Quillaja saponaria. I believe that the Shingrix and Novavax adjuvants are not 100% identical, but both contain saponins from the same tree bark. The Novavax adjuvant apparently contains 2 molecules isolated from the tree bark. One of those molecules is in the Shingrix vaccine. I believe that Novavax patented their adjuvant, "Matrix-M", which contains other molecules as well.

I had a severe reaction from my 1st Shingrix dose (complete deafness in one ear, fortunately reversed thanks to prompt treatment with an oral steroid). My primary care physician, as well as two friends who are physicians, all told me to not get the 2nd Shingrix dose, and I followed their advice. My PCP also put an entry in my electronic medical record stating that I am "allergic" to Shingrix. Because of my experience with Shingrix, I decided that I would not have gotten the Novavax vaccine had it been available to me. That didn't stop me from getting vaccinated with the Pfizer vaccine, which was the first Covid vaccine I was able to get. I had minimal side effects to all 3 Pfizer doses I've now received, and I've never had any strong side effects to any other vaccine, including Zostovax, the earlier, less effective, shingles vaccine.

Here's an interesting article about the adjuvant in the Novavax vaccine, as well as information about the Chilean plant.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...ope-new-vaccines-if-supplies-last-2021-10-06/

So far it has only been given to about 30k trial participants so plenty more data to be collected. Indonesia and the Philippines have approved it so it will be rolled out to millions soon.

 

[Alan]

Novavax has now been approved by the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...ated-novavax-nuvaxovid?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

The approval of a new protein-based Covid-19 vaccine by the European Medicines Agency (EMA) has led to hopes that it could play an important role in persuading millions of Germans who have refused jabs from existing vaccines to get protection against the disease this winter.

The EMA approved the two-dose Novavax vaccine on Monday afternoon. The German government’s vaccination advisory board is expected to follow suit and allow for its use soon, a move that would be welcomed by health experts who are bracing for a huge and imminent wave of infections caused by the new Omicron variant. The first doses of Novavax are expected to be administered in Germany in the new year.

The rollout of the vaccine – called Nuvaxovid – by the US-based drugmaker Novavax has been repeatedly hampered by a series of lengthy delays including production issues.

It is making its appearance in the battle against the virus about a year after the novel mRNA vaccines produced by Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna, and the viral vector vaccines made by Oxford/AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson.

 

[6miths]

I did the trifecta with AZ followed by Pfizer and then Moderna as my booster. Didn't really have any significant side effects with any of them.

 

[Alan]

I did the trifecta with AZ followed by Pfizer and then Moderna as my booster. Didn't really have any significant side effects with any of them.

Excellent.

Our son had a Pfizer booster yesterday following 2 AZ and it “knocked him off his feet”. Didn’t go into work which is something he rarely does. He’s fine today I think.

 

[EastWest Gal]

Excellent.



Our son had a Pfizer booster yesterday following 2 AZ and it “knocked him off his feet”. Didn’t go into work which is something he rarely does. He’s fine today I think.

Good immune response. Getting a reaction like that is reassuring. But having no reaction is just fine too.

 

[Surewhitey]

DW and I got the Moderna booster with very little side effect. I've heard others say that Pfizer has had stronger side effects around here.

I was a J&J guy, DW was Pfizer...

 

[dm]

I got the Pfizer booster yesterday. I had the two doses of maderna originally. Only reason I changed is that is what they had. I had to wait around about a hour behind all the Canadian snowbirds getting their shots.

My arm is sore today, ok otherwise.

 

[Gremlin]

I received the Pfizer two dose series. So had my husband, so I signed him up for the Moderna booster. I wanted the Moderna booster too, just to mix it up a bit. Unfortunately, when I was due my booster a colleague (who had been making village trips to deliver Pfizer booster shots) called during one of my shifts at the hospital desperately searching for someone who needed a booster. He had a Pfizer dose that would expire in 30 minutes. Guilt drove me to raise my hand as I couldn’t stomach the thought of a dose going to waste lol.

 

[Koolau]

I did the trifecta with AZ followed by Pfizer and then Moderna as my booster. Didn't really have any significant side effects with any of them.

It would be really interesting to know what level of antibodies such a trifecta would generate. I have no idea - not even a SWAG. YMMV