Not So Fast-Here We Go Again

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Rianne

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States that opened early are experiencing increased hospital admissions. This data is real. Not a predication, not assumed, not based on testing, but based on hospital admissions. If you scroll towards the end of the article, the data is presented state by state. This just an example of what may be coming our way. The market is reacting.


"Arizona: 'We weren't ready to reopen'


Arizona has seen a 49% increase in hospitalizations in the state since May 26, according to ABC News’ analysis of state data collected by the COVID Tracking Project. Matthew G. Heinz, an internist at Tucson Medical Center, attributed the increase directly to a premature reopening."


https://abcnews.go.com/Health/state...e-experts-point-lack-social/story?id=71181103
 
Strangely enough, my state was one of the first to widely reopen and hasn't seen this *yet*.
 
"It's not a second wave, they never really got rid of the first wave," says
Scott Gottlieb MD on COVID19 outbreaks in Arizona, Texas, South Carolina and North Carolina. "The more concerning part is they haven't been able to isolate what the source of the infection is."
 
Strangely enough, my state was one of the first to widely reopen and hasn't seen this *yet*.

My state hasn't seen this either, so far. We started Phase I on May 15th, and Phase II on June 5th I think.

New Orleans got this virus first, and other parts of the state got it later on. So, our peak (of daily new cases) here in New Orleans was on April 2nd and went down after that, but the peak was later on for other parts of the state.
 
Strangely enough, my state was one of the first to widely reopen and hasn't seen this *yet*.

Agreed that GA results have been amazing. I assume people are being cautious. GA is holding steady rather than cases going down.

Meanwhile, Gottlieb points out that several states such as TX, etc. are still experiencing their first wave.
 
Strangely enough, my state was one of the first to widely reopen and hasn't seen this *yet*.

Though our governor made headlines with the decision to lockdown late and reopen early, generally speaking, society in the ATL metro didn't follow those guidelines. My county and the other urban areas locked down before Kemp did it statewide. When he said restaurants, salons, gyms etc could reopen, not many did. They waited quite a while, even the big gyms. In my area, I felt like people were angry with his decisions and didn't care what he said, they didn't feel safe to go out, so they didn't. I saw online shaming of businesses that did want to open. The opening here was very slow, regardless of his decision. When I go out now, I see most people wear masks, and haven't heard about rebellious folks refusing to wear masks. Of course, the protesting will most likely create a spike, we'll see.

Just a few observations from my area just outside of Atlanta ...
 
Agreed that GA results have been amazing. I assume people are being cautious. GA is holding steady rather than cases going down.

Meanwhile, Gottlieb points out that several states such as TX, etc. are still experiencing their first wave.

Yes, this ...
 

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The mayor of New Orleans attributes our remarkable improvement here in New Orleans to people being so cautious. I don't see it! To me it seems like many New Orleanians have thrown caution to the winds.

But then again, it's quite possible that my definition of "cautious" is a whole lot more stringent than hers.
 
My state isn't seeing an increase in hospitalizations, despite the fact that reopening across many industries started here in early May. We're below our 21 day trend in all measures: cases, deaths, hospitalizations, and ICU admissions.

For some context, the linked article in the OP discusses 8 states.
 
Strangely enough, my state was one of the first to widely reopen and hasn't seen this *yet*.

True... but I believe "yet" is definitely the operative word here. IMHO, it strains credibility to think that Georgia will completely avoid an increase or surge in cases this summer, given what's happening in the Carolinas and Tennessee.*

From what I've seen over the past few weeks, lots of people around these parts seem to believe that the threat is solidly behind us and life should return to normal pretty quickly, but clearly it's this sort of foolhardiness that will fuel the "second wave" (or wave 1.5). We really do seem to live in a society where, IMHO, a large plurality of our fellow citizens have a visceral, defiant disdain for prudent, science-based public health measures that restrict our "freedoms".

*According to https://www.covidexitstrategy.org/, Georgia is trending "poorly", although better than the Carolinas, Florida, and Tennessee.
 
At this stage it’s probably more informative to look at individual cities or metropolitan areas, but there doesn’t seems to be much data. It would also help to look at hospitalization rates.

For a view of states, this chart from rt.live shows the current reproduction rate. https://rt.live/?fbclid=IwAR0hQymjJc9DFqZIK7d0VQUJmKvQ090mHIgyuI3gbIu9O42CzT5l4KE_Li8
And it's hospitalization rates that are going up in some states that are still in their first wave.
 
True... but I believe "yet" is definitely the operative word here. IMHO, it strains credibility to think that Georgia will completely avoid an increase or surge in cases this summer, given what's happening in the Carolinas and Tennessee.*
I think because there were so many cases in the Atlanta metro area early on, people there continue to be cautious. And same in the southeast part of the state that got hit so hard.

The Carolinas didn't see that hard initial hit that GA did. I think states that didn't have initial severe outbreaks have folks being less cautious.
 
And it's hospitalization rates that are going up in some states that are still in their first wave.

Definitely the case here in Florida. The three southern counties and the state overall are seeing in increase in cases, hospitalizations and fatalities. The reproduction rate never went below 1.
 
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Definitely the case here in Florida. The three southern counties and the state overall are seeing in increase in cases, hospitalizations and fatalities.

TX has had recent new highs in daily hospitalizations.
https://www.texastribune.org/2020/0...-reopening-surge-infections-hospitalizations/
Data released Wednesday by the Texas Department of State Health Services shows 2,153 people were hospitalized with COVID-19, up from 2,056 the day before, and 1,935 Monday. Before the last few days, the previous high was May 5, when 1,888 people were hospitalized.
 
Ugh, I need to stock up on dog food before this gets out of hand once again.
 
Definitely the case here in Florida. The three southern counties and the state overall are seeing in increase in cases, hospitalizations and fatalities. The reproduction rate never went below 1.

And what I don't get is, re-opening hasn't meant very much. I went by our big mall, Boca Town Center, yesterday, to scope it out as my parents are hoping to start doing morning walks there again soon. It doesn't open early for that yet, but a half hour after it did it was still dead. 75% of the stores either shut, or only doing appointment-shopping. Apple Store of course had a line.

Restaurants same thing. A handful of outdoor people wherever we've gone and that's it. And these are the warm states (Fl, Tx, Az) so the whole summer theory isn't holding water imo.

Personally I think maybe these situations (commerce, outdoor dining, etc.) aren't/weren't the major causes of spread. It's friends and family, social, groups, hanging out together, not you passed too close to someone at Pottery Barn.
 
From early in the article:

"ABC News' analysis of state data compiled by the COVID Tracking Project, a volunteer project launched by The Atlantic, further showed that five states had mostly flat hospitalization rates, while the majority of states, 37, saw a downward trend."

So doing some quick math, there are about 8 states where things are getting worse, presumably the 8 states featured in the article.

I think there is an attempt by news organizations to develop a narrative here. If most states are opening up, and most states are seeing a downward trend, then logic would say that opening up is generally OK. Unless the states that are opening up faster or more are correlated to the states that are having more problems, which the article didn't seem to attempt to try to do from the portions of it that I read.

Further, there are counterexamples, such as my own state, where states are opening up and not seeing second waves (yet). Since most states are reopening, and in 37 states the trend is downward, it seems like there would easily be 8 states or even more where things are getting better and they are opening up. But they didn't interview health experts in any of those states.

The other thing I wonder about and would like to ask here: When should we expect to see the second wave? In my state, we've been opening up for approximately six weeks, and yet the curve has clearly been flattening (https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/idaho). One could even, based on the data, make the nonsensical assertion that reopening has resulted in a slowdown in cases. After all, the reopening has been occurring and after that point in time the slowdown occurred.

I can understand the idea that there would be some lag between infections and cases, but I think we should have seen it by now. Idaho's recommendations - and I think these are common across many portions of the rest of the world - are for quarantines to last 14 days. I know that's a somewhat arbitrary number, but it seems like a good proxy for the lag period.

The article talks about people's practices as distinct from the reopening guidelines as a possible explanation. I think this could be part of the explanation. My state has seen an uptick in activity, and a drop off in mask-wearing and social distancing compared to the lockdown period. But we've also, like everywhere else, started installing plexiglass all over the place, and there still is distancing and mask wearing among maybe half of the population. I think most people have been mostly compliant with the state's orders.

I know I'm being a tad contrary, but I'd really like to understand how the second wave theory applies to my state, to see what I may be missing in my understanding of the situation. So thanks in advance to anyone who answers, I really do appreciate it.
 
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Most people here are wearing masks and the restaurants are following the rules for half capacity.
 
From early in the article:

"ABC News' analysis of state data compiled by the COVID Tracking Project, a volunteer project launched by The Atlantic, further showed that five states had mostly flat hospitalization rates, while the majority of states, 37, saw a downward trend."

So doing some quick math, there are about 8 states where things are getting worse, presumably the 8 states featured in the article.

I think there is an attempt by news organizations to develop a narrative here. If most states are opening up, and most states are seeing a downward trend, then logic would say that opening up is generally OK. Unless the states that are opening up faster or more are correlated to the states that are having more problems, which the article didn't seem to attempt to try to do from the portions of it that I read.

Further, there are counterexamples, such as my own state, where states are opening up and not seeing second waves (yet). Since most states are reopening, and in 37 states the trend is downward, it seems like there would easily be 8 states or even more where things are getting better and they are opening up. But they didn't interview health experts in any of those states.

The other thing I wonder about and would like to ask here: When should we expect to see the second wave? In my state, we've been opening up for approximately six weeks, and yet the curve has clearly been flattening (https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america/idaho). One could even, based on the data, make the nonsensical assertion that reopening has resulted in a slowdown in cases. After all, the reopening has been occurring and after that point in time the slowdown occurred.

I can understand the idea that there would be some lag between infections and cases, but I think we should have seen it by now. Idaho's recommendations - and I think these are common across many portions of the rest of the world - are for quarantines to last 14 days. I know that's a somewhat arbitrary number, but it seems like a good proxy for the lag period.

The article talks about people's practices as distinct from the reopening guidelines as a possible explanation. I think this could be part of the explanation. My state has seen an uptick in activity, and a drop off in mask-wearing and social distancing compared to the lockdown period. But we've also, like everywhere else, started installing plexiglass all over the place, and there still is distancing and mask wearing among maybe half of the population. I think most people have been mostly compliant with the state's orders.

I know I'm being a tad contrary, but I'd really like to understand how the second wave theory applies to my state, to see what I may be missing in my understanding of the situation. So thanks in advance to anyone who answers, I really do appreciate it.

I think you are simply being analytical. And of course, there is no logic that said increased contact through re-opening states would lead to further declines in cases, though articles such as this appear to pre-suppose it would.

The lockdown was supposed to "bend the curve", not end the virus.
 
Regional waves were expected upon first contact and then upon reopening, IIRC? The politicians just didn't advertise it. So in November one area could still be on their first wave and another are might be on their third wave? It never made sense to me that everyone in a big country would have their first wave at the same time. Heck, some remote places might just be starting their first wave at this moment.
 
Sheez, at this rate, I'd better stock up on toilet paper again.
 
From early in the article:

"ABC News' analysis of state data compiled by the COVID Tracking Project, a volunteer project launched by The Atlantic, further showed that five states had mostly flat hospitalization rates, while the majority of states, 37, saw a downward trend."

So doing some quick math, there are about 8 states where things are getting worse, presumably the 8 states featured in the article.

I think there is an attempt by news organizations to develop a narrative here. If most states are opening up, and most states are seeing a downward trend, then logic would say that opening up is generally OK. Unless the states that are opening up faster or more are correlated to the states that are having more problems, which the article didn't seem to attempt to try to do from the portions of it that I read.
Looking at the NY Times data, I see 20 states with increasing new cases, and 14 of these are at new highs. Several of these quite dramatically so.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...how&region=TOP_BANNER&context=storylines_menu
 
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