Travel during Covid OmicronB

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Hmmmm - too bad they haven’t figured this out.


They do but it comes down to human nature. It's difficult to convince people to wash their hands when they should. If you throw up or have diarrhea (even just a "little diarrhea" as some like to say) within 48 hours of your raft trip, you should cancel. But we all know most won't. This of course will many times result in you sickening your fellow travelers. Just as some with covid convince themselves "they are not that sick" or "it's just my allegies" some with noro convince themselves that "it's just a little upset stomach" and I've planned this trip for years so I am going to go.


Edit: And unlike covid, where fomite transmission is not a significant concern, norovirus can most definitely be transmitted on surfaces. And it is a lot more resistant to disinfectants than covid is.
 
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To recap some of my experiences:

Have taken road trips regularly, staying in hotels, observing all masking rules and, until recently, wearing masks in closed public places even when not required. Just got back from the Berkshire-Hathaway meeting where vaccination was required, period. Attended a family funeral in early February in "I-don't-need-no-stinkin'-mask" territory in N. Iowa where no one masked. Was careful and tested negative when I got home.

Alaskan cruise last August- they did everything right. Under 100 passengers, vaccination and negative test 3 days before required, masking in public areas. One couple went out bar-hopping the night before. He got it and so did another passenger who sat across from them at dinner.:mad: Everyone else tested negative. Yeah, that was a downer but I was SO glad I got out and they refunded half the cost of the trip since we lost a couple of days. I wore an N95 on the flights and, more importantly, on the overcrowded trams at SEA. Tested negative when I got home.

I'm headed for Germany next week. More hoops to jump through but I wanna get out. I did buy a policy that covers quarantine just in case.
 
For the most part, predicting who is susceptible to severe Covid is known. The vast majority have been older in poor health or younger with one or more co-morbidities. Yes I know there are exceptions, but that’s not a basis for decisions, you could die from the flu too. [I am not equating Covid and flu]
Severe COVID isn't the only concern with getting COVID. There's long covid.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/05/02/health/long-covid-asympomatic-cases/index.html

One review paper analyzed 11 studies published between December 2019 and September 2021 on people with asymptomatic or mild forms of Covid-19. The analysis suggests that long Covid develops on average in about 30% to 60% of patients, with fatigue, shortness of breath, cough, or loss of taste and smell as the most common symptoms.
almost a third of people who had mild symptoms when they were originally diagnosed may still have symptoms months later, according to some estimates.
Some scary stuff. I just got my second booster a couple days ago as cases are on the rise.

Previous infection isn't necessarily going to protect you better from COVID than a vaccination:

“That means even the millions of people who had omicron BA.1 infections earlier this year are still vulnerable to infection with BA.2.12.1, especially if they’re unvaccinated,”
BA.12.2.1 appears to spread even more easily than the earlier highly contagious omicron strains, but vaccines seem to hold up well, preventing severe illness
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/omicron-subvariant-ba2121-covid_n_62738f1fe4b0b7c8f0800231
 
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They do but it comes down to human nature. It's difficult to convince people to wash their hands when they should. If you throw up or have diarrhea (even just a "little diarrhea" as some like to say) within 48 hours of your raft trip, you should cancel. But we all know most won't. This of course will many times result in you sickening your fellow travelers. Just as some with covid convince themselves "they are not that sick" or "it's just my allegies" some with noro convince themselves that "it's just a little upset stomach" and I've planned this trip for years so I am going to go.


Edit: And unlike covid, where fomite transmission is not a significant concern, norovirus can most definitely be transmitted on surfaces. And it is a lot more resistant to disinfectants than covid is.
They keep trying to develop a vaccine. Still working on it.
 
Will not be testing before travel unless we are sick with covid symptoms. We traveled often in the US during the last 2 years with no problems
 
People are tired of Covid.



My cousin, who has been a staunch mask supporter, had a trip to Hilton Head planned. A week before his wife tested positive. A few days later, he tested positive. They went, but he assured me they didn’t have severe symptoms and wore their masks on the plane.



I felt like screaming at him, ITS NOT ABOUT YOU, it’s about all the people around you. Sigh.



Pretty sure there are lots of people doing this, just like pre-COVID, many people traveled when they had communicable colds and other things. Not saying it’s right to do so, but it’s up to each of us to protect ourselves.
 
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Laurie and I just got off of a 16 day cruise, ship repositioning from Miami to Seattle. It was an experience...

We’re home. We’re recovering.

What was supposed to be the ‘vacation of a lifetime’ was turned into the ‘vacation from heck’ courtesy of corporate corner-cutting in every direction. The ship’s crew and hotel staff worked hard to try and get us all through the actual cruise, but they were consistently kneecapped at every turn by corporate inattention, penny-pinching, poor communications and conflicting policies.

Before boarding we have to complete the on-line checkin process, and had to make sure we met various other requirements around vaccination and screening. *These requirements seemed to be moving targets for us.

The FDA authorized a second COVID-19 vaccine booster for folks over 50 (us) about 2 1/2 weeks before departure. *A day later, before our state had authorized the booster and before our medical provider was ready to provide it to us, we got an e-mail from Carnival that indicated we had to be fully vaccinated including all booster shots we were eligible for by 14 days before sailing. That gave us a window of two days to track down booster shots. *My wife and I found appointments at two different pharmacies on Saturday, 15 days before sailing, and drove some 25-30 miles each to get the shots. *Phew! *(We received another mail about 12 days before departure with language clarifying that the 14 days before sailing requirement only applied to the initial vaccine series, not boosters. *Thanks, guys! )

We did a COVID-19 antigen test 2 days before departure and sent in documentation as required. At the port, there was another test, required by one of the countries we would be visiting from what I understand. The actual boarding experience was a bit of a mess simply due to the need to get 2,000 people through the Miami terminal, the antigen test immediately before boarding required for everyone, and the wait for results. *It took a few hours.

Once onboard, we were in a crowd, but everyone was fully vaccinated, mostly boosted, and had passed 2 antigen tests recently. Masks were recommended but not required in indoor venues, but most folks dropped masking by Day 10. We got sloppy. That would prove to be problematic.

It turns out the antigen tests require a certain amount of viral proteins to be present in the nasal sample to show positive. In the early stages of an infection there may simply not be enough there to show a visible indication in the antigen test. Several days later, however, that person who passed a test could have a rip-roaring case of COVID-19 and be coughing and sneezing up a viral storm.

Around Day 10 we noticed folks coughing and sneezing through dinner and shows. That had me worried, and we started masking up in indoor spaces. On the evening of Day 11 I had a scratchy throat, not uncommon for me in heavily air-conditioned spaces.

The morning of Day 12, I awoke with a massive headache, chills, sore throat runny nose and aches. Damn. We did what we were supposed to do, called the Medical Center onboard, and a couple hours later a medic tested us in our room. I was positive and Laurie was negative. We were not the only ones. The medic told us that they were not moving people to the quarantine deck at that time. We later found that they were full! We would be isolating in our cabin.

We called Room Service to see if we could get something to eat. After an hour of listening to the Happy Fun recording, the phone system disconnected the call. Try again. Dropped again. The system was overloaded. Uh oh.

We did have two of those paper strip order things for breakfasts, so we filled one out and successfully got breakfast on Day 13, ordering enough to hold us for a day. We repeated this for Day 14. That evening, Room Service called US to get a dinner order. They had figured a way around the overloaded phone system, calling quarantined rooms from a back office phone.

I was feeling much better when we got to Seattle, with over 5 days since onset of symptoms having passed. Disembarking and leaving the port was it's own disorganized comedy of errors, but we made it home and I am recovering well. We are still monitoring Laurie, and I hope she somehow escapes COVID-19.

The ship’s crew and hotel staff worked hard to try and get us all through the actual cruise, but they were consistently kneecapped at every turn by corporate inattention, penny-pinching, poor communications and conflicting policies.
 
Still negative, had lunch with a friend who was also on the cruise with her family. Everyone still negative. Now DS & DGS (8yo) are also negative but its day 8 for them anyway. DGD (16yo) feels fine but she's only quarantined for 4 days. Will test tomorrow and hopefully back to school Monday
 
We're heading for London in 2 weeks, and will be there 4 days before flying to Athens to get on a 7 day cruise ending outside of Venice.

We'll have to have a COVID test right before getting on the ship. Our vaccinated 10 year old granddaughter will get a test onboard. We will take a self test halfway through the cruise so if we get it we'll go ahead and start the quarantine early. Note: We've all had COVID back in October--if that helps.

We'll have a couple of days in Venice prior to flying home, and we'll have to get another test in Heathrow Airport prior to leaving for the U.S. That is how the rules are for now.

When we went to Germany in October, the only vaccine documentation anyone asked for was going into a sit down restaurant. No one at the airline or even Customs inspected any of our test documents coming or going.
 
Laurie and I just got off of a 16 day cruise, ship repositioning from Miami to Seattle. It was an experience...

We’re home. We’re recovering.

What was supposed to be the ‘vacation of a lifetime’ was turned into the ‘vacation from heck’ courtesy of corporate corner-cutting in every direction. The ship’s crew and hotel staff worked hard to try and get us all through the actual cruise, but they were consistently kneecapped at every turn by corporate inattention, penny-pinching, poor communications and conflicting policies.

............

Around Day 10 we noticed folks coughing and sneezing through dinner and shows. That had me worried, and we started masking up in indoor spaces. On the evening of Day 11 I had a scratchy throat, not uncommon for me in heavily air-conditioned spaces.

The morning of Day 12, I awoke with a massive headache, chills, sore throat runny nose and aches. Damn. We did what we were supposed to do, called the Medical Center onboard, and a couple hours later a medic tested us in our room. I was positive and Laurie was negative. We were not the only ones. The medic told us that they were not moving people to the quarantine deck at that time. We later found that they were full! We would be isolating in our cabin.

We called Room Service to see if we could get something to eat. After an hour of listening to the Happy Fun recording, the phone system disconnected the call. Try again. Dropped again. The system was overloaded. Uh oh.

We did have two of those paper strip order things for breakfasts, so we filled one out and successfully got breakfast on Day 13, ordering enough to hold us for a day. We repeated this for Day 14. That evening, Room Service called US to get a dinner order. They had figured a way around the overloaded phone system, calling quarantined rooms from a back office phone.

I was feeling much better when we got to Seattle, with over 5 days since onset of symptoms having passed. Disembarking and leaving the port was it's own disorganized comedy of errors, but we made it home and I am recovering well. We are still monitoring Laurie, and I hope she somehow escapes COVID-19.

The ship’s crew and hotel staff worked hard to try and get us all through the actual cruise, but they were consistently kneecapped at every turn by corporate inattention, penny-pinching, poor communications and conflicting policies.

We looked it up, and Wow they certainly were overwhelmed with 100->200 cases on the ship.
Other people report the same as you about not getting food, and the phone system not working.

How did they stop your Wife from going out to the buffet to get food ?
 
We have continued to travel since the onset of covid, but have prioritized safety in our destinations, activities, and timing of travel.

We went to British Columbia in October right after Canada reopened. We spent February in Florida and Texas, went to NYC in March (NIT basketball and Broadway) and we are heading to the Caribbean later this month. During COVID we have made multiple trips to north and centralTexas, the Texas gulf coast, Key West, Hollywood Beach, Daytona, St Augustine, Carolina Beach, Charleston, Columbia, Savannah, Greenville, Wilmington (SC), the Jersey Shore, Panama City Beach and I'm sure a few other places We have college basketball season tickets and attended quite few men's and women's basketball games inultiple cities as well as college football games. Most of.our tracel.has been by car.

Going forward we plan to mask getting into and out of airplane but probably not while aboard (per the Dr. Scott Gottlieb strategy mentioned above).

We avoid tight indoor crowded spaces and eat outdoors a lot. We use masks where required or where it seems advisable but prefer to rely on maintaining distance between others as much as possible as the main tactic in order to stay healthy. It's a good practice in any event. If an indoor place seem too crowded, we don't go in. Lots of indoor events are sparsely attended, which helps.

These approaches seemed to have worked to allow us to continue living while recognizing risks and keeping them manageable.
 
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Laurie and I just got off of a 16 day cruise, ship repositioning from Miami to Seattle. It was an experience...

We’re home. We’re recovering.

What was supposed to be the ‘vacation of a lifetime’ was turned into the ‘vacation from heck’ courtesy of corporate corner-cutting in every direction. The ship’s crew and hotel staff worked hard to try and get us all through the actual cruise, but they were consistently kneecapped at every turn by corporate inattention, penny-pinching, poor communications and conflicting policies.

Before boarding we have to complete the on-line checkin process, and had to make sure we met various other requirements around vaccination and screening. *These requirements seemed to be moving targets for us.

The FDA authorized a second COVID-19 vaccine booster for folks over 50 (us) about 2 1/2 weeks before departure. *A day later, before our state had authorized the booster and before our medical provider was ready to provide it to us, we got an e-mail from Carnival that indicated we had to be fully vaccinated including all booster shots we were eligible for by 14 days before sailing. That gave us a window of two days to track down booster shots. *My wife and I found appointments at two different pharmacies on Saturday, 15 days before sailing, and drove some 25-30 miles each to get the shots. *Phew! *(We received another mail about 12 days before departure with language clarifying that the 14 days before sailing requirement only applied to the initial vaccine series, not boosters. *Thanks, guys! )

We did a COVID-19 antigen test 2 days before departure and sent in documentation as required. At the port, there was another test, required by one of the countries we would be visiting from what I understand. The actual boarding experience was a bit of a mess simply due to the need to get 2,000 people through the Miami terminal, the antigen test immediately before boarding required for everyone, and the wait for results. *It took a few hours.

Once onboard, we were in a crowd, but everyone was fully vaccinated, mostly boosted, and had passed 2 antigen tests recently. Masks were recommended but not required in indoor venues, but most folks dropped masking by Day 10. We got sloppy. That would prove to be problematic.

It turns out the antigen tests require a certain amount of viral proteins to be present in the nasal sample to show positive. In the early stages of an infection there may simply not be enough there to show a visible indication in the antigen test. Several days later, however, that person who passed a test could have a rip-roaring case of COVID-19 and be coughing and sneezing up a viral storm.

Around Day 10 we noticed folks coughing and sneezing through dinner and shows. That had me worried, and we started masking up in indoor spaces. On the evening of Day 11 I had a scratchy throat, not uncommon for me in heavily air-conditioned spaces.

The morning of Day 12, I awoke with a massive headache, chills, sore throat runny nose and aches. Damn. We did what we were supposed to do, called the Medical Center onboard, and a couple hours later a medic tested us in our room. I was positive and Laurie was negative. We were not the only ones. The medic told us that they were not moving people to the quarantine deck at that time. We later found that they were full! We would be isolating in our cabin.

We called Room Service to see if we could get something to eat. After an hour of listening to the Happy Fun recording, the phone system disconnected the call. Try again. Dropped again. The system was overloaded. Uh oh.

We did have two of those paper strip order things for breakfasts, so we filled one out and successfully got breakfast on Day 13, ordering enough to hold us for a day. We repeated this for Day 14. That evening, Room Service called US to get a dinner order. They had figured a way around the overloaded phone system, calling quarantined rooms from a back office phone.

I was feeling much better when we got to Seattle, with over 5 days since onset of symptoms having passed. Disembarking and leaving the port was it's own disorganized comedy of errors, but we made it home and I am recovering well. We are still monitoring Laurie, and I hope she somehow escapes COVID-19.

The ship’s crew and hotel staff worked hard to try and get us all through the actual cruise, but they were consistently kneecapped at every turn by corporate inattention, penny-pinching, poor communications and conflicting policies.


That sounds horrible but realistically what were your expectations when/if a huge Covid surge ran through your ship taking out both passengers and crew. Corporate inattention, penny pinching....what was actually supposed to happen? You do say you were seen by medical staff within a couple of hours. in fact your exact story is why more then a few people will not go on cruises until Covid is gone. You took the risk when you boarded the ship. In fact no quarantine deck will be big enough when things go to pot.



IMO the cruise traveler needs to realize things could go totally wrong on any cruise. It's common knowledge the new variants are much more contagious and break through current vaccines.



Wish both you and your spouse good health!
 
That sounds horrible .... IMO the cruise traveler needs to realize things could go totally wrong on any cruise.
Exactly! That's why my August 2021 & April 2022 were in an expanded balcony (7 days) and December 2021 in a mini-suite (10 days + 2 days in Fort Lauderdale before the cruise = 12 days). I'm back in an expanded balcony + packing home tests on my next one, it's 18 days. I will sequester but mask up and take tray from them in hall / put used tray back in hall if asymptomatic. Will go to quarantine deck if symptomatic
Wish both you and your spouse good health!
Ditto
 
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Exactly! That's why my August 2021 & April 2022 were in an expanded balcony (7 days) and December 2021 in a mini-suite (10 days + 2 days in Fort Lauderdale before the cruise = 12 days). I'm back in an expanded balcony + taking a home test on my next one, it's 18 days Ditto


After reading that story are you planning on having extra water and extra snack type foods in your room..
 
WOW! Lots of sad, unfortunate stories.

We did a two week trip to a warm state. No Covid contracted by any of us. We tried to eat outside as much as possible, avoided any place that looked very crowded, etc. etc. etc. We had masks but only wore them when they were required. We also timed our booster shot for about two weeks before leaving, on the theory that we would have a fresh supply of new anti-bodies about then. Maybe it all helped. Or maybe we just were lucky. I don't know for certain. Luckily we can choose to travel when things are less crowded and the infection rate is lower. :)

I do know that I cringed when I read about the Correspondence Dinner with 2600 politicians, celebrities and various other members of the glitterati attending. There seems to be a lot of the 'Do as I say, not as I do' philosophy among them. They certainly set a bad example, IMHO.

I plan on being more careful over the next few months both at home and traveling. I feel like putting a Protected by N95 bumper sticker on my car, right next the the Protected by Smith and Wesson sticker. :D While I feel like I am no longer helpless in regard to this virus, I also I feel as though we are being sucked into another trap by this virus. Once bitten....
 
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I plan on being more careful over the next few months both at home and traveling. I feel like putting a Protected by N95 bumper sticker on my car, right next the the Protected by Smith and Wesson sticker. :D While I feel like I am no longer helpless in regard to this virus, I also I feel as though we are being sucked into another trap by this virus. Once bitten....

+1

I keep hearing hints of a new Covid variant or two that are expected to hit the country like a ton of bricks later this coming summer. Fauci said something very vague in passing that alerted me, and then I noticed other officials saying other non-specific things that make me wonder. It's like maybe they know something but don't want us to panic? Who knows but I'm being careful too, not traveling or even leaving the house very much. We don't eat lunch at restaurants every day any more; only about once a week. The other days we get "to go" meals from these restaurants, which seems to give us less exposure to so many people.

And yet, Frank didn't even get Covid from ME last year when I was so sick. Covid doesn't seem to behave like most viruses and I expect there are some major surprises ahead in a few years when there has been sufficient time to do more research and learn more. But whatever, I still don't want to catch it again.
 
I caught covid on a 6 day cruise in January (my wife eventually caught it from me after the cruise.)

We were scheduled to take the Carnival Spirit Panama canal cruise that just finished. But after being quarantined for just 2 days on the shorter cruise, we decided not to risk the 16 day cruise and cancelled it.

Sort of glad we did given how that cruise turned out.

Do not get upset with carnival about people getting infected. But you can be upset by their response if you like.

I think covid spread in public places is pretty much just a matter of the amount of time in indoor places. Bringing a group of people together for an extended period of time is going to cause spread. The question is how long before it gets noticed. The longer the cruise, the more cases I assume. It is why there is so little blamed on the airlines. I assume it spreads there, but symptoms do not show up till days later and by then the passengers are spread out. So the airlines do not get blamed.
 
Currently the BA.4 and BA.5 variants appear to infect folks who think they are protected, more by just prior infection, but also vaccinated folks. Again it is not killing people but feels pretty bad. It's in S. Africa and of course you can bet it's being flown over the world as people travel.

I'll probably keep my mask on in public for longer as infections are going up here.
When we cruised last Summer to Alaska, we stayed masked, but lots of others on the ship didn't.
We had a balcony, so if we got sick at least we would have an outside sitting area. I can't imagine being stuck inside an interior room for days on end.
 
After reading that story are you planning on having extra water and extra snack type foods in your room..
Yes on whole fruit (apples, oranges, bananas, bowl berries), pastry, and ordering 4-5 yogurts for breakfast 1st sea day. Stocking up the fridge. No on water as I drink ships water. This ship will have a kettle so I will have my favorite tea.

I religiously mask onboard but if I test positive will not leave room until I'm negative and want to do more than sleep. DS, GS3, & GD1 stayed asymptomatic but spent 2 days sleeping

If forced to the quarantine deck will retest after 5 days anyway but I've read how food delivery is abysmal there .... hope for best / plan for worst
 
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Currently the BA.4 and BA.5 variants appear to infect folks who think they are protected, more by just prior infection, but also vaccinated folks. Again it is not killing people but feels pretty bad. It's in S. Africa and of course you can bet it's being flown over the world as people travel.
It has already been detected here in the U.S. The the same is true with BA.2 infecting those who were infected with BA.1, and that's the one that is spreading in the U.S. more quickly now.
 
Friends of ours took a 2 week trans-atlantic cruise that stopped in various ports along the Mediterranean. They were to fly back from Italy, this weekend, but the last day on the ship the wife began having cold symptoms. The next day, the day before their flight back to the U.S., they both tested positive. Now they are in quarantine in Italy for a week. Both are vaxxed + boostered. He is asymptomatic, she has some immuno issues but has mild symptoms (slight fever + cough). Their kids and grandkids had a big Mothers Day planned for their arrival, unfortunately it had to be Zoom event. They understand being quarantine but hoped the quarantine conditions would be better than they are experiencing. This might add between $2000-$3000 USD to their trip expense (I do not know if they bought trip insurance, and if so, what would be covered).

DW and I had been thinking once again about looking at our first ever cruise... But it seems every time we do, something happens to friends who ventured out on one.
 
We are considering a trip soon to Las Vegas to scout out the area (thinking of moving there). It is a 2 day drive each way or we could just fly. Normally, we prefer driving trips. I went on several 5 hour away trips for surgery/medical stuff over the last 9 months. We drove for all of those. But, the LV trip is longer and we have a lot to do.

So, I was thinking of flying (I hate flying). We quit masking (except as required usually at medical facilities) once we had our second booster shot at the start of April. If we fly, I think we will make for the pre-boarding, on the phone and until out of the airport. Yes, yes, I know the filtration system will be fine. But, my understanding is that won't help you from the droplets of other people around you. Like GCGang's cousin....

People are tired of Covid.

My cousin, who has been a staunch mask supporter, had a trip to Hilton Head planned. A week before his wife tested positive. A few days later, he tested positive. They went, but he assured me they didn’t have severe symptoms and wore their masks on the plane.

I felt like screaming at him, ITS NOT ABOUT YOU, it’s about all the people around you. Sigh.

Oh, my. I really am naive. It is just unfathomable that someone would know they had a contagious disease that could kill people and would still go on the trip....


Anyway, still haven't decided what we would do. We have a lot going on getting ready to sell our house and don't need either of us to come down with Covid. We would probably be OK. We are both vaxxed and twice boosted. Other than age, we don't have any conditions that greatly increase our risks. Still with all we are doing I wouldn't want to delay that Covid could cause. But, then the drive would add time to our trip.
 
Yes on whole fruit (apples, oranges, bananas, bowl berries), pastry, and ordering 4-5 yogurts for breakfast 1st sea day. Stocking up the fridge. No on water as I drink ships water. This ship will have a kettle so I will have my favorite tea.

I religiously mask onboard but if I test positive will not leave room until I'm negative and want to do more than sleep. DS, GS3, & GD1 stayed asymptomatic but spent 2 days sleeping

If forced to the quarantine deck will retest after 5 days anyway but I've read how food delivery is abysmal there .... hope for best / plan for worst

What is the quarantine deck like ? Do they have balconies or are they inside rooms ?
 
What is the quarantine deck like ? Do they have balconies or are they inside rooms ?
All balcony rooms. They make sure no one can leave by taking away their medallion (needed to reenter room) and surveillance the hallway. Also close hallway off with heavy doors. But you can (supposedly) go on your own balcony

Seriously thinking of booking a 7 day to Alaska on June 26th. Hope current wave is over by then
 
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All balcony rooms. They make sure no one can leave by taking away their medallion (needed to reenter room) and surveillance the hallway. Also close hallway off with heavy doors. But you can (supposedly) go on your own balcony

Seriously thinking of booking a 7 day to Alaska on June 26th. Hope current wave is over by then
Booked. Will stock fridge day 1. Really like scenic cruising on my balcony with a glass of wine, fruit / cheese / nuts plate
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