Want Vs. Worry

[REWahoo]

It is interesting to see the constant drumbeat from the financial media about the lack of retirement savings:

Caught between wants and worries
By Chuck Jaffe, MarketWatch

http://tinyurl.com/7t2dv

"On one hand, there is the desire to spend what is coming in today, using the money for what you want. On the other, there is the worry that if you do not save, you'll wind up running out of money in retirement.

Every significant spending choice is somewhere in between those two.

And just as an investor is poorly served by being too fearful or too greedy in their actions, so too is a saver whose decisions never achieve a balance between want and worry."

Can you say "stating the obvious"?...

REW

 

[TargaDave]

Yep, from the financial media. That along with the fact that you need 85% of your income to retire. Saw a WSJ article (not that I trust the info) talking about the formula details and it misses alot of what gets factored into wealth. Ever see the exact formula?? Not saying there isn't a problem but I'd like to see what's/not counted.

It's like those low official inflation #'s while health care, real estate, energy, and college tuition keep spiralling. Always easy to create a number to fit the agenda.

Come to think of it, there's a big endorsement of Bersteins 4 Pillars (guy who just happens to despise all brokers/FP's) by Vanguards founder right on the front cover. I love the statement that John Bogle makes on the inside flap "it's a book I wish I'd written myself" (hey John, funny how those wishes come true!)

EVERYONE HAS AN AGENDA, even the good guys.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

   

EVERYONE HAS AN AGENDA, even the good guys.

I agree. I also thinnk some people "want" to "worry" or at least inflict it on others. All this talk about "you need this much" or "you need that much"
or "this per cent or that percent" (to retire) doesn't mean diddly squat in the real world. It's just to fill printed material and broadcast time.

JG

 

[scrood]

amen brother Galt

scrood

 

[LOL!]

Can you say "stating the obvious"?...

As I have aged, I have learned many things. I now take many bits of knowledge for granted because I have forgotten when I learned them. It's as if I always knew all along. I forget that someone 20 or 30 years younger has not had the gift of all those years yet.

So when I see or read about someone doing the obvious or not doing the obvious, I have to check myself and give them the benefit of the doubt. For example, I coach youth basketball. Everyone knows you jump off your left foot for right-handed lay-up -- it's one of the most basic things in basketball, instinctive really.

Anyways, my point is that the financial media have to fill printed material, because new readers are born every minute and they haven't read what you've already read and assimilated. They don't know what you already know ... yet.

 

[REWahoo]

As I have aged, I have learned many things. I now take many bits of knowledge for granted because I have forgotten when I learned them. It's as if I always knew all along. I forget that someone 20 or 30 years younger has not had the gift of all those years yet.

So when I see or read about someone doing the obvious or not doing the obvious, I have to check myself and give them the benefit of the doubt. For example, I coach youth basketball. Everyone knows you jump off your left foot for right-handed lay-up -- it's one of the most basic things in basketball, instinctive really.

Anyways, my point is that the financial media have to fill printed material, because new readers are born every minute and they haven't read what you've already read and assimilated. They don't know what you already know ... yet.

I get your point and agree everyone starts with a blank slate when it comes to financial knowledge. So maybe I should revise my comment to: Can you say "Stating to the oblivious what should be obvious"?...

REW

 

[Mr._johngalt]

As I have aged, I have learned many things.  I now take many bits of knowledge for granted because I have forgotten when I learned them.  It's as if I always knew all along.  I forget that someone 20 or 30 years younger has not had the gift of all those years yet.

So when I see or read about someone doing the obvious or not doing the obvious, I have to check myself and give them the benefit of the doubt.  For example, I coach youth basketball.  Everyone knows you jump off your left foot for right-handed lay-up -- it's one of the most basic things in basketball, instinctive really.

Anyways, my point is that the financial media have to fill printed material, because new readers are born every minute and they haven't read what you've already read and assimilated.  They don't know what you already know ... yet.

Damn fine post.

JG

 

[Nords]

Everyone knows you jump off your left foot for right-handed lay-up -- it's one of the most basic things in basketball, instinctive really.

Yeah, but I can't help wondering WHY?  Is there a physical/kinetic reason for it or is it just "instinct" and "the way we've always done it"?

A lot of tae kwon do has changed in the last decade as people started looking at biomechanics, kinetic/rotational energy, and momentum.  Sparring used to be at arm's length and now is at a separation of 6-8 feet because of the improvements.  Track & field has undergone a complete transformation from the days when no one believed that the Fosbury Flop could work.  Look at the research effort that went into creating Lance Armstrong. 

And then wonder if there's a better way to do a layup...

 

[azanon]

Can you say "Stating to the oblivious what should be obvious"?...

If its so obvious, then why are several regulars of this site hoarding money and living technically impoverished lives so they can retire at 38?

The message of "balance" is highly needed here, if you ask me.

 

[Jarhead*]

Yeah, but I can't help wondering WHY?  Is there a physical/kinetic reason for it or is it just "instinct" and "the way we've always done it"?

A lot of tae kwon do has changed in the last decade as people started looking at biomechanics, kinetic/rotational energy, and momentum.  Sparring used to be at arm's length and now is at a separation of 6-8 feet because of the improvements.  Track & field has undergone a complete transformation from the days when no one believed that the Fosbury Flop could work.  Look at the research effort that went into creating Lance Armstrong. 

And then wonder if there's a better way to do a layup...

Nords: Don't take his word on it. The next time you're around a basketball court, try using your right leg as the push-off.
While you're at it, try throwing a baseball using your left leg as the push-off. (If you're right handed).

Warning, you're going to look like and fell like a "nerd".

 

[Nords]

Warning, you're going to look like and fell like a "nerd".

Ah, so you've seen me surfing!

If I could play basketball then I'd never have joined the Navy. I'm not the right guy to be doing the research, but I do know it's worth questioning the status quo. You should read about all the horrible cycling training practices that the Europeans had to abandon when the ignorant Americans questioned those practices and started sweeping their trophies.

You would think that the basketball industry sport would be looking for anything to change the way the game has "always" been played. But maybe I'm expecting too much from a league whose logo is still a white guy from the 60s...

 

[Sheryl]

If its so obvious, then why are several regulars of this site hoarding money and living technically impoverished lives so they can retire at 38? 

Why? Because they LIKE it!

One man's impoverished is another's Simple Living.

 

[azanon]

One man's impoverished is another's Simple Living.

To each his own.  Hey, i realize i'm actually in the minority.  Form the little town I come from, for every nice house, there's 20 run down ones.   

I know being poor isnt all that bad.  I had some of that welfare cheese once at a friends house, and damn that stuff is good.  They even give you the slicer too.

I spent 25 years of my life getting to a MA degree in Biology. Last thing i'm going to do is waste all that time i spent getting there by retiring so early that i end up forced to live a life just as impoverished as those guys that never finished high school. If you ask me, that'd be pretty moronic.

 

[HFWR]

Basketball HAS changed dramatically since the 60s, but a layup is still a layup...

 

[shiny]

I spent 25 years of my life getting to a MA degree in Biology. Last thing i'm going to do is waste all that time i spent getting there by retiring so early that i end up forced to live a life just as impoverished as those guys that never finished high school. If you ask me, that'd be pretty moronic.

There is a classic book by Duane Elgin called Voluntary Simplicity that does a good job in contrasting Simple Living with poverty. There is a line somewhere and it is mostly defined by choice.

I do not wish to live in poverty, I agree that after spending so much time in school (law school for me) and working that to have to line up for free cheese would be sad (although I would line up for free ice cream at Starbucks, right MJ? ) But I also reject society's expectations about what I am supposed to have and do in favor of what I want and what makes me happy.

Sometimes NOT having something actually makes me happier.

 

[FlowGirl]

But I also reject society's expectations about what I am supposed to have and do in favor of what I want and what makes me happy.

I agree, but then I've found that the simplicity movement (at least as found on some internet boards) seems to have its own set of expectations and anyone who admits that they actually like having a few nice material possesions is labelled as a rampant consumerist.

I agree with azanon to an extent. Time is extremely valuable to me and I'm willing to trade a lot of stuff for the chance to retire early. There are simply a lot of things that the spouse and I want to do that require more than a few weeks vacation a year and we don't want to put off until we are in rocking chairs.

On the other hand, I don't want to eat rice beans most nights. If some people actually prefer that to steak then that's great, but what I see mostly in the simplicity movement is people choosing beans over steak because they are "good enough" not because they actually prefer them - and doing that across all categories of spending, not just a few that you don't care about. I think that is what turned me off from the voluntary simplicity movement, despite the fact the I actually agree with a lot of the basic principles. I enjoy my life, am not much into having a lot of stuff, and am pretty thrifty to boot, but I don't want to tone down spending to the point where everything in my life is at a "merely adequate" level.

 

[azanon]

... and i agree with Flowgirl completely I think we're thinking the same thing, you're just a tad more delicate and clear than I. Oh well.

But I also reject society's expectations about what I am supposed to have and do in favor of what I want and what makes me happy.

Sometimes NOT having something actually makes me happier.

First, what flowgirl said. Also, I'll just have to straight up admit i cannot completely reject what "society" thinks of me, though i do it sufficiently enough. For instance, I might be able to live with "X" size house, with "X" size yard, with "X kind of cars, etc but certainly there might be a point where i'm going to have at least a baseline quality of things as to not have my wife, parents, friends, other loved ones actually began to pity and (excessively) talk about me. So, what i think certainly counts the most, but i do not completely void others opinions. I just cannot do that.

Second, again, my argument was getting back to what i originally said; I truly believe in balance, which is what the original post was about. And if that's so obvious, then i'm left wondering why so many people struggle with it by going to one extreme or the other. For example, as can be literally mathematically shown, you can save so excessively so, that you dont even give the power of compounding a chance to do some of the work for you, so it becomes a case of diminishing returns for ones efforts.

As a successful, hardworking individual that's accomplished a lot in my life so far, i simply cannot and will not accept a mediocre or worse lifestyle. Like most people, I also prefer steak over beans, and you can rest assured i will eat my fair share of steaks. Reflecting on those many all-nighters, i know i damn well deserve it.

I'll retire early enough. I exercise and eat right as best i can to maximize the chance i'll have plenty of years of non-work to enjoy myself.

Azanon

 

[Michael Moore]

I agree, but then I've found that the simplicity movement (at least as found on some internet boards) seems to have its own set of expectations and anyone who admits that they actually like having a few nice material possesions is labelled as a rampant consumerist.

Humans tend to be tribal or pack/herd animals. It is like that line from the Firesign Theater "what are you going to do when you graduate, Mudhead? Oh, I thought I'd find a group of guys and dress alike and follow them around".

Those who fail to sufficiently meet the group norms will face group sanctions.

You just have to hope you find a group with norms that fit your requirements.

cheers,
Michael

 

[shiny]

Yes. Some of the simple living ideas can go over the line, my point is it is all about choice. (those people living in the run down houses mentioned earlier may not actually be making the choice)

Maybe its easier for me because I'm a vegetarian who enjoys all kinds of things from rice and beans (why are they getting such a bad rap?) to gourmet cuisine.

I'm sure people in my family do think I'm strange. Well, I'll just be that eccentric old aunt who takes her dogs everywhere, travels the globe, recycles dryer sheets, lives in a tiny apt so she can walk on all her errands and not have yardwork (plus have a GREAT view of the water and the Seattle skyline).

I think I have what I want and I think you guys do too, aren't we lucky?

 

[azanon]

If it wasnt for the noise, i'd love apartments too. I lived in about 8-9 total in different cities before i finally bought my first house. Invariably, it was a given, someone next to me would have the most powerful stereo known to man, so i hear a *thump, thump thump * usually while i'm trying to sleep.

At another, about 15-20 kids chose to loiter outside my apartment as their favorite hang-out spot, so i'd hear several cackles for what seemed like hrs on end.

Also, the utilities (electricity specifically) was always unusually high too. I went from almost a 1K square foot apartment to a 2K square foot house. The electicity bill + gas was the same; go figure.

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Yes. Some of the simple living ideas can go over the line, my point is it is all about choice.  (those people living in the run down houses mentioned earlier may not actually be making the choice)

Maybe its easier for me because I'm a vegetarian who enjoys all kinds of things from rice and beans (why are they getting such a bad rap?) to gourmet cuisine.

I'm sure people in my family do think I'm strange.  Well, I'll just be that eccentric old aunt who takes her dogs everywhere, travels the globe, recycles dryer sheets, lives in a tiny apt so she can walk on all her errands and not have yardwork (plus have a GREAT view of the water and the Seattle skyline).

I think I have what I want and I think you guys do too, aren't we lucky?

Damn straight!

 

[MJ]

I do not wish to live in poverty, I agree that after spending so much time in school (law school for me) and working that to have to line up for free cheese would be sad (although I would line up for free ice cream at Starbucks, right MJ? )

I recall getting several of those 5lb blocks of yellow cheese about 35 years ago when I was living kinda free and easy sans a career. It tasted way too salty so if the salt content dropped which I doubt (makes a good preservative), I wouldn't mind getting one of them again.
I didn't have to stand on line for that free ice cream since I came early just after my daily 25 mile fast bike ride.

 

[unclemick]

I picked up some of that cheese last week - for a lady/neighbor who lives on 600/mo SS plus Medicare. Friend of ours for 30 yrs. So we get to sample her cooking from time to time - near as I can tell in sauces or mac and cheese - it tastes the same. In box - it looks like generic Velveeta.

 

[azanon]

Since we're on the cheese now, the only time i tasted it, i think i was about 12 years old at the time (21 years ago). My friend had gotten the cheese from a poor aunt (apparently, she just didnt like cheese so they took it from her). I just remember eating so much of it, i got sick. I was jealous that the cheese we had at our house (probably kraft mild cheddar) didnt taste near as good as this welfare stuff. I'm not sure if its still as good tasting as it was then.

Azanon

 

[Andre1969]

I don't ever remember any cheese, but somehow when I was a kid, we got ahold of some government honey!