Recession's Mark on Millennials

[ugeauxgirl]

Re: minimum wage and college costs- college cost has risen faster than nearly everything else- its not surprising that wages haven't kept up to that.

 

[Nemo2]

The reason an employer pays you to go to work is that its not always fun.

If it was fun you'd have to pay them in order for them to 'let' you work there.

 

[jzajzz]

On the positive side ... Millenials are much better spenders than their parents ...

Goldman Sachs Millennials spending habits - Business Insider

 

[UnrealizedPotential]

I never made any excuses. A can do attitude and hard work goes a long way.

 

[MichaelB]

Millenials vs Boomers is an endless topic of media - probably because it's such low hanging fruit, the media and so many readers seem to be math and statistics challenged.

What makes this a valid comparison? Even of the conclusion is correct, that boomers at the same age had greater financial achievements, why is that relevant? They're still doing better than every other previous generation in the short history of the US. They are being judged based on our boomer achievements.

Even if millennials are lagging, that says nothing about how well they will do in the future.

I think the bigger story is how the boomers did so well but still managed to be woefully unprepared for retirement.

 

[mrfeh]

I find this an interesting subject. I am certainly no expert, but some thoughts on the differences between 1977 America and 2017 America:

• college is much more expensive today -> more difficult to complete without loans
• in 1977, it was easier to obtain a middle class lifestyle without a college degree
• a bifurcation is occurring in wages - those without skills/training (ie college degree) are not seeing wage growth in real dollars, primarily due to automation

I don't see the situation getting better anytime soon.

 

[Milton]

Speaking in terms of generations, boomers' parents (I'm a boomer) made it easy for their children to get educated through low-cost community colleges. We've failed to pass along that favor. I'm more than a little ashamed at my generation.

On the other hand, consider this article: The Bank of Mom and Dad: confessions of a propped-up generation.

Millenials vs Boomers is an endless topic of media.

And in almost all such articles, Generation X doesn't merit even a passing mention ...

 

[Milton]

But the world is bigger than America

I find this an interesting subject. I am certainly no expert, but some thoughts on the differences between 1977 America and 2017 America:

• college is much more expensive today -> more difficult to complete without loans
• in 1977, it was easier to obtain a middle class lifestyle without a college degree
• a bifurcation is occurring in wages - those without skills/training (ie college degree) are not seeing wage growth in real dollars, primarily due to automation

I don't see the situation getting better anytime soon.

But for much, perhaps most, of the developing world, the reverse holds true: the past four decades have seen substantial increases in accessibility to education and economic opportunities (employment, decent wages). Standards of living (consumption) have improved significantly under globalization.

While Americans may be nostalgic for the 'good old days' of 1945-1975, that was an artificial, unsustainable era that saw the USA benefiting at the expense of most other countries. Things are more equitable ("better") now.

 

[mrfeh]

But for much, perhaps most, of the developing world, the reverse holds true: the past four decades have seen substantial increases in accessibility to education and economic opportunities (employment, decent wages). Standards of living (consumption) have improved significantly under globalization.

While Americans may be nostalgic for the 'good old days' of 1945-1975, that was an artificial, unsustainable era that saw the USA benefiting at the expense of most other countries. Things are more equitable ("better") now.

Yes, I agree.

However, I wonder if advances in technology/automation will deprive other nations of the golden age the US saw post WWII.

 

[Danmar]

I think it is tougher for millenials than for us boomers. I can see this with my daughter and her friends. Most have student loans because tuition is so high, and have had difficulty getting that first career type job. Buying a house in many of the hotter markets is very difficult. A mitigating factor is that many millenials are getting or will get financial assistance from their parents.

As well, based on my personal experience, I believe the future is in very good hands with the millenials. I am not as confident with the current cohort of boomers.

 

[LOL!]

I find this an interesting subject. I am certainly no expert, but some thoughts on the differences between 1977 America and 2017 America:

• college is much more expensive today -> more difficult to complete without loans

,
I don't see the situation getting better anytime soon.

I paid most of my own way through college by working in high school, in college, and during the summers. My folks paid only 3 years of room & board, not including weekend meals. I worked in a restaurant in high school, so my folks didn't pay for my dinners for a year of high school, maybe that's why they gave me a break and paid some of my meals in college.

I have a child who graduated from college and a child now in college. I can write that college is relatively inexpensive and a student can pay for it by working summers, and part-time during college with help from Federal tax credits. Of course, if a student doesn't work, then college seems enormously expensive.

The idea that college is expensive seems to come from the NorthEast media where all the journalists want to send their kids to elite private universities. A public university in Texas is about $10,000 a year (not semester!) for tuition, fees, and books. Sure, room & board adds more to the cost, but one can live pretty cheaply either at home or with lots of roommates. Life is not meant to be a cake walk.

 

[mrfeh]

The idea that college is expensive seems to come from the NorthEast media where all the journalists want to send their kids to elite private universities.

No, I believe the idea that college is much more expensive now comes from data.

Run a web search to see graphs of how the cost of college has risen over the last 4 decades compared to inflation. Here are the first 3 hits I get; the table in the first link is quite telling:

https://trends.collegeboard.org/col...oard-over-time-1976-77_2016-17-selected-years
Why college costs are so high and rising
Forbes Welcome

 

[Andre1969]

It's only one data point, but here's my experience with college. I went to the University of Maryland in College Park. I got a bachelor's degree, but was on the "five year plan".

Anyway, in fall of 1988, my first semester, tuition was around $900. I think books were around $100-150. My final semester, spring of 1993, tuition was up to around $1500. I forget what books were. Regardless though, tuition went up roughly 67% in just five short years. I know inflation was worse in those days, but it wasn't *that* bad! FWIW, we were complaining about how fast it was going up, even then.

Nowadays, I think tuition is around $5000 per semester. I have no idea what books cost. And of course, if you stay on campus, there's room and board on top of that. I was a commuter student.

Incidentally, minimum wage was $3.35/hr in 1988, $4.25/hr when I graduated in 1993. It's $7.25/hr today. So it hasn't quite doubled since 1993. Yet tuition has gone up around 3.3x.

 

[Midpack]

In a seminar on generational differences, they discussed the fact that the millenials (in general) are not ideal employees. They tend to be job hoppers, have poor work ethic, need lots of feedback on their job, not deal with conflict or criticism well (the trophy for showing up generation) and think that there is a job out there that they will love every aspect of. I have told more than one millenial that the job they are dreaming of is called a HOBBY. The reason an employer pays you to go to work is that its not always fun.

I'm neither defending nor knocking millenials, but many employers can't be "loyal" to employees in same way they were when Boomers were 20-somethings. Lifetime employment and relatively generous benefits were far more common in the 70's than they are these days. Though necessary, the change in corporate culture led to much more job hopping.

It seems the broader point, missed by the author linked in the OP, has to do with the health of the "American dream." When Boomers started their careers, they and several generations before them had a reasonable expectation their children would do better than they would. It seems that sentiment is no longer as broadly held, many people are convinced their children will have a lower standard of living than Boomers did...

While we're knocking millenials, I can think of plenty of shortcomings our (Boomer) generation bestowed on the country/world.

 

[Amethyst]

Electronic social media help perpetuate ideas about "who had it better."

I remember grousing about not being able to find jobs, and certainly people were unhappy about double-digit inflation and interest rates, but it was mostly water-cooler talk and dinner-table chat. We weren't constantly reinforcing each other's unhappiness via facile memes (e.g."Old Economy Steve") on social media platforms.

 

[CaptTom]

Very interesting viewpoints. Probably all valid, depending on your perspective. These are complex issues.

One thing I wanted to add was the fact that the "greatest" generation lived through one or two world wars and a great depression. It had a pretty strong effect on them for the rest of their lives. If the millennials are graduating into uncertainty, maybe it will make them "greater" too.

Maybe they'll learn to save, learn to live without an $8 latte at Starbucks every morning, learn to suck it up and do a job they might not love, just to survive. Maybe they'll look at the political (and every other) mess we've left them and find a way to do better. You never know.

I have a lot of confidence in them. Granted, you can find a lot of slackers. But among them are still some truly fine human beings. Look at the military. Many branches of which are now pretty selective. Some of those kids are top-notch.

In a seminar on generational differences, they discussed the fact that the millenials (in general) are not ideal employees. They tend to be job hoppers, have poor work ethic, need lots of feedback on their job, not deal with conflict or criticism well (the trophy for showing up generation) and think that there is a job out there that they will love every aspect of. I have told more than one millenial that the job they are dreaming of is called a HOBBY. The reason an employer pays you to go to work is that its not always fun.

I also totally agree with this.

But I must point out that I'd be a job-hopper too, with the total lack of loyalty, respect, benefits, pensions and job security most companies offer their employees today.

Somehow, each generation finds a way to get by in the world. We don't have to approve.

 

[Amethyst]

I agree. My current supervisor is young enough to be my son but he sure has more going on, as a boss, than I did at his age. A fine young man.

I have a lot of confidence in them. Granted, you can find a lot of slackers. But among them are still some truly fine human beings. Look at the military. Many branches of which are now pretty selective. Some of those kids are top-notch.


.

 

[audreyh1]

The idea that college is expensive seems to come from the NorthEast media where all the journalists want to send their kids to elite private universities. A public university in Texas is about $10,000 a year (not semester!) for tuition, fees, and books. Sure, room & board adds more to the cost, but one can live pretty cheaply either at home or with lots of roommates. Life is not meant to be a cake walk.

No it doesn't. It's real. About 10 years ago I looked at the tuition at the state university where I got my degrees in the late 70s and mid 80s and I was absolutely floored at how expensive the tuition was 20 years later. Factor of 10+ as I recall.

 

[audreyh1]

In a seminar on generational differences, they discussed the fact that the millenials (in general) are not ideal employees. They tend to be job hoppers, have poor work ethic, need lots of feedback on their job, not deal with conflict or criticism well (the trophy for showing up generation) and think that there is a job out there that they will love every aspect of. I have told more than one millenial that the job they are dreaming of is called a HOBBY. The reason an employer pays you to go to work is that its not always fun.

Job-hopping, lack of loyalty to a company. That is what companies themselves have created as they stopped being loyal to employees decades ago. I don't blame millennials for looking out for themselves. That is exactly what their employers do.

 

[JoeWras]

Maybe they'll learn to save, learn to live without an $8 latte at Starbucks every morning, learn to suck it up and do a job they might not love, just to survive.

I'm with you on this. I'm back to good old coffee after having a Starbucks habit a few years ago. LBYM and all.

But I do want to stand up for my Millennial friends. We can make fun of their Starbucks habit, but what about Boomers and Greatests? Cigarettes. About the equivalent of that expensive latte per day. The more I thought about it, the less I'm willing to throw that Latte-Stone anymore. Every generation seems to have some crazy weakness of some sort.

And it goes back. Even the American Colonists had their all-day drinking habits.

 

[meierlde]

The idea that college is expensive seems to come from the NorthEast media where all the journalists want to send their kids to elite private universities. A public university in Texas is about $10,000 a year (not semester!) for tuition, fees, and books. Sure, room & board adds more to the cost, but one can live pretty cheaply either at home or with lots of roommates. Life is not meant to be a cake walk.

In particular with things like the texas core curriculum transfer rule (42 semester hours) a community college is still the cheapest route for the first two years. The core curriculum does ensure transfer of credits.

 

[Milton]

Disloyalty is a two-way street

Job-hopping, lack of loyalty to a company. That is what companies themselves have created as they stopped being loyal to employees decades ago. I don't blame millennials for looking out for themselves. That is exactly what their employers do.

Agreed! Let's not harbour any illusions about 'benevolent' employers.

 

[Totoro]

My short view: Younger people, especially in the United States but also West-Europe are having a much tougher time than the previous generations. Globalization indeed: the tailwinds are gone for the unhappy majority.

The big winners are those elsewhere: India, China, even Africa. And the happy workers at the top end.

That trend is starting to reverse since the rest of the globe is catching up. Stuff is relocalizing.

The other trend, technology disruption, however won't let up. That 'lower end' of the labor market is never returning.

 

[John Galt III]

No it doesn't. It's real. About 10 years ago I looked at the tuition at the state university where I got my degrees in the late 70s and mid 80s and I was absolutely floored at how expensive the tuition was 20 years later. Factor of 10+ as I recall.

+1. My state univ tuition (alone) for one year out-of-state was $3,150 when I attended back in the 70's. Now it is $32,xxx. Just over a ten fold increase. For one year, for tuition only. In-state tuition for one year is $17,xxx.

 

[Bestwifeever]

One person in the story thought getting her BA in sociology was the way to get a good job. Sure. A little cherry picking going on here.

They should compare the Millennials to the Gen Xers, not the Boomers.