Chart of the Day

Interesting that the headlines keep talking about record unemployment numbers.

I think we all know that lots of people are out of work. It doesn't really seem like "news" to me.

I can only assume it's already baked into most people's assumptions and forecasts. The actual numbers don't seem significant at this point. Or am I missing something?
 
Interesting that the headlines keep talking about record unemployment numbers.

I think we all know that lots of people are out of work. It doesn't really seem like "news" to me.

I can only assume it's already baked into most people's assumptions and forecasts. The actual numbers don't seem significant at this point. Or am I missing something?

Check out the magnitude of the spike vs. the 2008/2009 crash.
This is just getting started as restaurants start giving up on the take-out model and companies realize this isn't opening up again in a couple of weeks like they were originally told.
 
Check out the magnitude of the spike vs. the 2008/2009 crash.
This is just getting started as restaurants start giving up on the take-out model and companies realize this isn't opening up again in a couple of weeks like they were originally told.

Right. in 2008/9 the restaurants didn't all close. Much fewer people were out of work, and not all at once. You know that, I know that. Who hasn't figured this out yet, and would that person even be looking at such a chart, never mind understanding its implications?

I'm not saying it's not a big deal. Just that continually pointing out new record numbers isn't "news."
 
Interesting that the headlines keep talking about record unemployment numbers.

I think we all know that lots of people are out of work. It doesn't really seem like "news" to me.

I can only assume it's already baked into most people's assumptions and forecasts. The actual numbers don't seem significant at this point. Or am I missing something?

In the past when market fundamentals came more into play, on a day when the 6.6m was announced, but 3-5m at most was expected, the market would tank.
The propping up of the market appears to be much more in play these days, at least for now.
 
Check out the magnitude of the spike vs. the 2008/2009 crash.
This is just getting started as restaurants start giving up on the take-out model and companies realize this isn't opening up again in a couple of weeks like they were originally told.

Some restaurants are making a go of it, Chili's near me has by my observation done the following:

  1. Cut staff to the bone, I think there is 1 or 2 cooks and 1 carry person.
  2. They previously had carry out, so just modified it by locking restaurant door, and bring it to your car.
  3. Set up tables outside (if they could reopen,what a great patio idea) to mark pickup spots.
  4. Their takeout has labels to microwave probably from before.
Will it work to keep them alive, I don't know, but it will slow the demise, and keep customers aware of them, who will return quicker when some safe idea is presented.
 
Some restaurants are making a go of it, Chili's near me has by my observation done the following:

  1. Cut staff to the bone, I think there is 1 or 2 cooks and 1 carry person.
  2. They previously had carry out, so just modified it by locking restaurant door, and bring it to your car.
  3. Set up tables outside (if they could reopen,what a great patio idea) to mark pickup spots.
  4. Their takeout has labels to microwave probably from before.
Will it work to keep them alive, I don't know, but it will slow the demise, and keep customers aware of them, who will return quicker when some safe idea is presented.

Yeah I'm more focused on my beloved hole-in-the-wall mom-and-pop places. They are getting desperate. I think they're only open until they burn off some inventory as the menu is shrinking. One place posted on FB they were selling off the un-opened liquor bottles from the bar (restaurants were mysteriously allowed to sell drinks with the carry out orders here)
 
Interesting that the headlines keep talking about record unemployment numbers.

I think we all know that lots of people are out of work. It doesn't really seem like "news" to me.

I can only assume it's already baked into most people's assumptions and forecasts. The actual numbers don't seem significant at this point. Or am I missing something?

Actual number mean something, when you have a new record by a factor of 5X you can be sure what ever models are out there were not built for this level of forecasting. This is why Goldman is weekly adjusting their forecasts to the downside on economic activity, models assume by default nothing worse than has ever happened in the history of the economy cannot happen now. Yet you are seeing 5X moves.

I think the absolute destruction of the economy and the means of production along with supply chain issues going forward will lead to declines of historic magnitutude. Time will tell, it is hard to be patient for a year when markets can move 20% in a week, the inclination is that one should do SOMETHING. But if you missed the moves up and instead are looking for buying opportunities, I think anyone looking for that will have more opportunities than they will funds.
 
I think the numbers being published are meaningless, and pretty much baked into the discussion is the reality that 2020 numbers (at least 2Q and likely 3Q) are toast.

As Running man has posted, the 200 day MA is 3025...the "good" news is we have a long way to run to we run into it as a ceiling. :)

The investment question isn't 2020. It is 2021 and beyond, and how much of a recovery we will see.

Right now, I'm in the mindset that the market will attempt some rallies based on the thesis that a lot of bad is priced in. I'd agree with that thesis - but only in terms of the pandemic itself, not in terms of subsequent downward pressure on the economy due to business failures and decreased discretionary spending. The exception to this thought is that there is likely to be some post pandemic "splurge" spending as people celebrate being able to go out and about. But my thesis is that this will be short lived as the reality of the situation further emerges - that the government support can't go on forever.

Honestly, I hope I am wrong on this. While I have a lot of cash as an attempt to preserve my wealth, I do not want to see the country enter a decade like the 30's, or a decade of hyper-inflation like Germany in the 20's.
 
I was curious, so I googled "economic impact of the 1918 flu epidemic."
I came up with this:
The economic effects of the Spanish Influenza can not be as easily determined as they would be today due to a lack of economic data and record keeping. However, some figures have been reported that the influenza cut the world’s economic output by 4.8 percent and cost more than $3 trillion. The main halt in revenue for most businesses was caused by lowering attendance at work from all the employees affected by the influenza. This reduced productivity. There was then a greater demand for workers, so companies that were already struggling had to increase employees’ wages because of their high demand. Many companies shut down. Even state and local health departments were reported to have shut down for periods of time. Basic services like mail and garbage collection were no longer carried out during the height of the epidemic. There was also not enough farm workers to harvest crops, leading to less food for the public and less money for the farmer. The only companies that benefited from the influenza were those that produced health care products.

So, chart experts, got anything to put this in context? It would be interesting to see if we could extrapolate 1918 to today.
 
https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20200321/ri-rsquoweeks-not-monthsrsquo-from-running-out-of-cash

This is not the same because economy has totally changed in 1918 the average american was on his own, in 1918 governmental spending tripled from 10 percent of GDP to 30 percent of GDP then rapidly declined again by 1920 to 11 percent. With government spending now at 40% it would take 120% of GDP spending in order to achieve the same result. And many states are going to end up like Rhode Island, how do people think states are going to get through this crisis? That is the next wave of shock and awe.

https://www.providencejournal.com/news/20200321/ri-rsquoweeks-not-monthsrsquo-from-running-out-of-cash
 
This was during the biggest bull of all time! Going to Drop like the % employed chart

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What is not realized is that pensions can and will be cut and this is going to have an outsized effect on the economy. States are going to go belly up, does anyone think New Jersey or Illinois are going to be able to fund themselves through this year? How can they even pay unemployment benefits. This is ugly......... Illinois rainy day fund is $60,000 the amount the state spends in 30 seconds. the 2.7 billion the federal government is granting illinois is 5 percent of their total budget. And cities are getting zip..... When the sales tax revenue doesn't come in for March and is followed by zero in April, States will be shutting down nearly all services.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/3/27/21195837/coronavirus-illinois-state-finances-budget-springfield-pritzker-harris
 
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What is not realized is that pensions can and will be cut and this is going to have an outsized effect on the economy. States are going to go belly up, does anyone think New Jersey or Illinois are going to be able to fund themselves through this year? How can they even pay unemployment benefits. This is ugly......... Illinois rainy day fund is $60,000 the amount the state spends in 30 seconds. the 2.7 billion the federal government is granting illinois is 5 percent of their total budget. And cities are getting zip..... When the sales tax revenue doesn't come in for March and is followed by zero in April, States will be shutting down nearly all services.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/2020/3/27/21195837/coronavirus-illinois-state-finances-budget-springfield-pritzker-harris

In NY, state employee and teachers retirement fund pensions are "guaranteed" by the NYS constitution:
§7. (a) After July first, nineteen hundred forty, membership in any pension or retirement system of the state or of a civil division thereof shall be a contractual relationship, the benefits of which shall not be diminished or impaired.

So I guess NYS would either have to a)Go bankrupt or b) via change to constitution. b) seems to be a complicated process, requiring:
By a proposal of an amendment in the Legislature, subject to voter approval, or
Through a Convention, also subject to voter approval, which can be called in one of two ways:
By proposal of the Legislature, subject to voter approval
Through the automatic referendum every twenty years

Disclaimer: If I make it to 65, I am due a small NYS teachers retirement pension.
 
I think the absolute destruction of the economy and the means of production along with supply chain issues going forward will lead to declines of historic magnitude.


I agree. They are now talking about 30% unemployment (minimum.......could be higher) within the next couple months. For perspective, the unemployment rate at the height of the depression in 1933 was 25%. There is no way a 30% unemployment rate is baked into the market at this point. And the stimulus/relief package that was passed recently does not begin to deal with an event of this magnitude. This is pretty much an unprecedented event.
 
I agree. They are now talking about 30% unemployment (minimum.......could be higher) within the next couple months. For perspective, the unemployment rate at the height of the depression in 1933 was 25%. There is no way a 30% unemployment rate is baked into the market at this point. And the stimulus/relief package that was passed recently does not begin to deal with an event of this magnitude. This is pretty much an unprecedented event.

A small point of difference, I do think most people do expect unemployment to go to 30%, there is just a faith that because the Central Banks have controlled the markets for 45 years there is no issue they cannot overcome. So therefore there is very limited selling of stocks presently because that would be “timing” the market and that is known as a bad thing. But time will go by, unless there is a sudden a dramatic turn on in the economy, which to me seems very unlikely the following will happen, OVER TIME
1) 401K investments into the market have to slow, as people lose jobs and even people that have jobs cut off 401K contributions to have more cash today.

2) Companies, since they are in a cash crunch will stop borrowing to purchase company stock, as usual company stock purchases tend to happen at highs and issuance at lows, expect stock issuance to raise funds on an overall basis.

3) States are going to have huge revenue shortfalls and will declare pension funding holidays in order to support the unemployed.

4) Pension funds, with less fundings will have to sell stocks to pay pension participants.

5) The unemployed will have to start withdrawing from 401K especially as time goes forward in order to have funds to live on.

6) The biggest offset to all of this is rebalancing of portfolios of pension and individual investors to their targeted stock allocations. But it is my belief that 1-5 will overwhelm the prices of stocks and lead to continued lows, but this will take time.

7) Spending is collapsing as people are staying at home further reducing the average revenue even for business that is still functioning, unless you are in the food or nutrition or healthcare market.

8) The belief in the Federal offset in blowing up the budget and the Central Bank balance sheet and will lead to inflation raising prices of stocks and making holding them imperative, is a logical scenario, but by default I think that has to happen down the line after selling is well under way as government choice to economic solution to the corporate and burgeoning Central Bank debt issue.

Unemployment is a very damaging incident and the greatest increase and rate of unemployment in the world is being treated as if this is equivalent to a bunch of Nobel Prize winners blowing up a portfolio at LTCM and having to offset those effects, since the FED accomplished that then of course the complete stoppage of half the industry in the world can be fixed as well and owning companies is the great wealth creator for the future. I am skeptical but watching with vigorous interest and care, I just can’t model a portfolio and stick with a model that never envisioned this type of activity. But in a few years there will be a model that includes this and then there will be Nobel winning papers describing how best to take pandemic portfolio protection.
 
8) The belief in the Federal offset in blowing up the budget and the Central Bank balance sheet and will lead to inflation raising prices of stocks and making holding them imperative, is a logical scenario, but by default I think that has to happen down the line after selling is well under way as government choice to economic solution to the corporate and burgeoning Central Bank debt issue.

Unemployment is a very damaging incident and the greatest increase and rate of unemployment in the world is being treated as if this is equivalent to a bunch of Nobel Prize winners blowing up a portfolio at LTCM and having to offset those effects, since the FED accomplished that then of course the complete stoppage of half the industry in the world can be fixed as well and owning companies is the great wealth creator for the future. I am skeptical but watching with vigorous interest and care, I just can’t model a portfolio and stick with a model that never envisioned this type of activity. But in a few years there will be a model that includes this and then there will be Nobel winning papers describing how best to take pandemic portfolio protection.

I call this Ka-BOOM. At first, the downward spiral is deflationary as earnings, wages, and discretionary spending collapses. Eventually, the never ending virtual printing press causes a large uplift in inflation as dollars chase goods (and perhaps as the US loses its position as THE reserve currency).

I've been buying Gold and Silver (really just nibbling), getting frustrated as it moves up (frustrated in that it makes me want to jump in with much larger orders when I think (in terms of logic) that I should hold back).
 
I call this Ka-BOOM. At first, the downward spiral is deflationary as earnings, wages, and discretionary spending collapses. Eventually, the never ending virtual printing press causes a large uplift in inflation as dollars chase goods (and perhaps as the US loses its position as THE reserve currency).



I've been buying Gold and Silver (really just nibbling), getting frustrated as it moves up (frustrated in that it makes me want to jump in with much larger orders when I think (in terms of logic) that I should hold back).



I don’t disagree about a cycle of deflation then inflation, at least for a while until supply and demand can come back into sync. Might take a few years and some interest rate increases. On the other hand, who knows, but that’s one logical projection.

In all of this, however, I keep seeing fears expressed that the dollar will no longer be the world’s reserve currency. That’s one thing I don’t worry about, because what’s the alternative? Swiss Francs? Not enough of them to grease the world. The Yen? Japan isn’t growing fast enough. Renminbi? China is communist. The Euro? The world got a peak at that house of cards in the Greece crisis. Little pieces of silver and gold? To run a multi-trillion economy? Crypto? Too hard to use. The average consumer can’t find NYC and LA on a map.
 
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whatever anyone is saying about oil is out of date by the time they finish typing.
 
Multi Year Commodities breaking out of long term channel.
 

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