Long Term Health Care

[travelover]

Talk to the elder care/medicaid planning attorney, but consider giving son his inheritance sooner rather than later.

Right. If parents need LTC I'm sure son will gladly pay.

 

[NW-Bound]

Yep , I have a plan , we are headed to Amsterdam to spend our life when the time comes . They have Euthenasia . Hell with over paying for a longer life with high price care . It is probably over rated . Ride a little scooter visit the Red light district several times a week , hang out at the coffee shops . As the senator said party like a Rock Star .

Hey, if I can still ride a scooter to the red light district, I do not want to hear about euthanasia.

 

[travelover]

Hey, if I can still ride a scooter to the red light district, I do not want to hear about euthanasia.

My thinking, exactly, though this might be a good way to die.

 

[Walt34]

It just doesn't seem fair they go back 5 years .

I disagree, and think it is very fair. The purpose of the 5 year lookback is to prevent someone from giving away all their assets when they foresee needing LTC and then crying poverty when they need LTC and then wanting the taxpayers (via Medicaid) to pick up the tab.

Before doing anything talk with an elder law attorney. They are well versed in estate planning and can give you good advice on steps to take before the crisis. In the long run this is the much cheaper route.

 

[youbet]

It is fraud to state that you are impoverished (in order to get medicaid to cover LTC) when you have a safe full of cash.

+1

It's amazing what you learn about people reading threads like this.

 

[Teacher Terry]

Nursing homes can't afford to care for a bunch of people with no $. The 5 year look back is fair. If you have the $ you should pay for your care. I would start with a home that takes Medicaid if you have paid for awhile so you don't get thrown out when you run out of $. With all of us baby boomers getting old this may get to be a real financial crisis if too many people end up in homes.

 

[bclover]

Question?
What is this fear folks have of actually paying for their own care when you get older??
LOL seriously, we want the best health care for most of our lives an then when we get oler all of a sudden we get cheap an don't want to pay for our healthcare.

Op, in the interest of full disclosure, my husband and I are not big fans of leaving huge inheritance. this is from personal experiences. we've simply had too many experiences where the inheritance did a world of hurt. anyhoo our stance with our kids has been this, you went to school tuition free on our dime, gifted you with travel throughout your lives and financially helped you with your home purchase. If you can't survive after that, leaving you money is not going to be the answer.

Instead of gifting your son with the cash why not just purchase LTCI??

 

[youbet]

Nursing homes can't afford to care for a bunch of people with no $. The 5 year look back is fair.

I tend to agree with ya TT. It's more than fair.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I know someone in another state that used a lawyer and so was able to shelter some of the assets and then they inherited when the parent died. I never thought that was right but it was legal. My Grandmother died right before her $ ran out in a home. No one in our family thought they should have inherited instead of the home getting the $.

 

[Senator]

Agree on the partying or rock star life style..disagree on the cash...give it away or spend it, but hiding it and claiming poverty is fraud.you might not get caught but it's still fraud when you fill out an asset sheet and don't say that you have cash hidden away.

It's hard to party like a rock star on home equity. You need a HELOC or a cash out refinance or similar. With real estate equity, you cannot even buy a cup of coffee.

You need to get the cash, and spend it.

 

[marko]

I'm the next the next town over some guy ended up in a NH at age 83. Somehow he had snuck in a gun . Problem solved on his second day

 

[Walt34]

I know someone in another state that used a lawyer and so was able to shelter some of the assets and then they inherited when the parent died. I never thought that was right but it was legal.

FIL passed away before it was needed but the elder law attorney we worked with also had a plan to preserve half of his assets. Like you, at first we were uncomfortable with this but then we concluded it was no different than structuring one's assets to pay the lowest legal amount of taxes. No one here has any reservations about doing that so why not the other?

The state writes the rules so I see no reason not to use those rules to one's (legal) advantage.

 

[gerntz]

I have a question we want to preserve our money and will it to our son . Now a friend of ours has explained if we need to go to a long term health care institution we would have to give up tons of money . Is there an insurance or a way to set up a trust to protect a home and a little money from this type of situation . It just doesn't seem fair they go back 5 years .

Till around 2000, they used to go back just three years. Regardless, why not have the person make themselves poor starting 5 years before they think they MIGHT need nursing home care? I mean, what's wrong with planning your life?

 

[travelover]

Till around 2000, they used to go back just three years. Regardless, why not have the person make themselves poor starting 5 years before they think they MIGHT need nursing home care? I mean, what's wrong with planning your life?

You can do that. Personally I don't want to be in a Medicaid nursing home so my kid can party on my money.

 

[gerntz]

The technique we used in the late-90's for MIL was to have her give us her assets and pay the nursing home ourselves. We were able to deduct her care as medical expenses since she became our dependent. Also got the dependent deduction. Between Fed & state taxes, saved about a third of the cost. She was in the home longer than the look back period till she passed, but we kept paying anyway.

Of course if the personal exemptions are raised way up as I read is going to happen, this would no long help much.

 

[gerntz]

You can do that. Personally I don't want to be in a Medicaid nursing home so my kid can party on my money.

Since you know your kid is that way, I can see your point. My kid is responsible & helping my grand kids have a good chance to succeed is at the top of my cares list. But would still be a tough call to go into any LTC home.

 

[travelover]

Since you know your kid is that way, I can see your point. My kid is responsible & helping my grand kids have a good chance to succeed is at the top of my cares list. But would still be a tough call to go into any LTC home.

You won't know until it really happens. Money does strange things to people and divorces happen that were unexpected.

 

[Teacher Terry]

A good friend of my Mom's gave her house/$ to her kids with the provision she would continue to live there as always. Her son and DIL moved in and made her live in the basement which was cold and damp. She was sick all the time. They kept her $ so she was too poor to do anything. She never thought her own kid would treat her like this. 2 of my 3 kids are very responsible, etc as is one of my 2 stepsons. However, I think there is a lesson to be learned from this situation and it is not that unusual. I would not take the chance.

 

[nun]

Because I'm single and all my relatives live in another country I bought LTC insurance when I was 38. The premium is $25/month and the benefit is $250/day in a LTC facility with a lifetime max benefit of $365k. That seemed like a lot back in 2000, but if I need it in say another 20 or 30 years I only expect it to cover a fraction of the costs and my pension and SS checks will make up the difference so that the house and my investments will be untouched and can pass to my heirs. I consider the LTC insurance relatively inexpensive peace of mind.

 

[bclover]

A good friend of my Mom's gave her house/$ to her kids with the provision she would continue to live there as always. Her son and DIL moved in and made her live in the basement which was cold and damp. She was sick all the time. They kept her $ so she was too poor to do anything. She never thought her own kid would treat her like this. 2 of my 3 kids are very responsible, etc as is one of my 2 stepsons. However, I think there is a lesson to be learned from this situation and it is not that unusual. I would not take the chance.

One of the reasons my husband and I decided not to leave large inheritances to our kids is because of some ugly, ugly family behavior. I mean serious in fighting. One cousin suing his dad because he felt dad was giving away too much money, my two aunts (sisters) not speaking to each other over money. Just real, real ugly stuff.

I also know one family member who was supposed to take care of his aging mother and remarried to a new wife who was not even pretending that she was going to be bothered stuck mom in a nursing home quicker than you can blink

 

[bmcgonig]

A good friend of my Mom's gave her house/$ to her kids with the provision she would continue to live there as always. Her son and DIL moved in and made her live in the basement which was cold and damp. She was sick all the time. They kept her $ so she was too poor to do anything. She never thought her own kid would treat her like this. 2 of my 3 kids are very responsible, etc as is one of my 2 stepsons. However, I think there is a lesson to be learned from this situation and it is not that unusual. I would not take the chance.

Lesson indeed. Shakespeare wrote King Lear way back then about this very thing

 

[marko]

You can do that. Personally I don't want to be in a Medicaid nursing home so my kid can party on my money.

Around here there are no 'Medicaid NHs'; you can be paying full freight and the person next to you could be on Medicaid. Same care.

In fact, (I'm running into this with my recently disabled brother) Medicaid recipients are given a wider set of benefits than a self-paying person is legally allowed to pay for. In my state, I've learned that my brother was a chump to have worked every day, saved his money and build assets; HE should've partied his money away and he'd be better off.

Too long a story to go into here.

 

[MichaelB]

Around here there are no 'Medicaid NHs'; you can be paying full freight and the person next to you could be on Medicaid. Same care.

In fact, (I'm running into this with my recently disabled brother) Medicaid recipients are given a wider set of benefits than a self-paying person is legally allowed to pay for. In my state, I've learned that my brother was a chump to have worked every day, saved his money and build assets; HE should've partied his money away and he'd be better off.

Too long a story to go into here.

Please do. No need for personal details. Understanding the circumstances where being dependent on Medicaid is an advantage compared with paying one's own way for LTC could be a benefit for members here.

 

[REWahoo]

Medicaid recipients are given a wider set of benefits than a self-paying person is legally allowed to pay for.

Like MichaelB, I would like you to provide more information. Since the prevailing thought is that Medicaid LTC is bare bones, your comment really got my attention.

 

[marko]

Please do. No need for personal details. Understanding the circumstances where being dependent on Medicaid is an advantage compared with paying one's own way for LTC could be a benefit for members here.

Ok.
Short version:
My brother has had a stroke and insurance has been paying for his NH therapy (PT, OT and SLP) but plans to drop paying for his therapy at the end of this week. His progress is good but not as fast as they'd like so after 3 months of PT, they're done paying.

He's done so well and made so much progress with his therapy I want to pay for it out of pocket to continue his sessions.

In some twisted logic, the great state of Massachusetts says it's illegal for one to self-pay for therapy after insurance drops you. So starting next week the NH can only provide very limited therapy for him within the limits of the law. No matter what amount of money I want to pay, they cannot do it.

Going through all of this with the NH I was told that had he come in the door on Medicaid, his therapy would have been virtually unlimited and that some people there have been doing therapy for almost a year.

A therapist took me aside and told me that the Medicaid side of things "gives you tons of stuff that you can't get paying...try to get him on it asap"

YMMV but that's the game in Mass.