Long Term Care Insurance - my experience

[Stormy Kromer]

This topic has probably been addressed at length, I would like to share my personal experience with Long Term Care Insurance.

Both of my parents had long term care policies that they took out about 30 years ago. Both offered $60 a day of coverage with a $100,000 maximum. Each had a 90 day waiting period before payment would begin.

In 2015 DF turned 90, we took care of him at home as long as we could and he ended up walking himself into a nursing home, he passed 29 days later. Cost was just over $8,000 per month.

In 2023 DM turned 92, I took care of her at home as long as I could and ended up moving her to an Assisted Living Facility, she passed within the month. Cost was $4,800 per month.

Neither of them came close to meeting the waiting period, and even if they had $60 a day wouldn't have come close to meeting their costs.

In fairness, LTC should not be expected to cover 100% of care expenses. Care expenses include a lot of expenses the person no longer has such as homeownership, food, utilities and other expenses they no longer have. Most have at least one other source of income such as pension, social security and investment income.

I don't see that I will ever purchase LTC insurance.

The biggest LTC expense exposure that I see is that if one spouse becomes invalid and the other still lives at home. In the case where it is down to one spouse living in an Assisted Living Facility is possible until extreme care is needed. At a cost of $4,500 a month that would be cheaper than living at home with a house and car.

I applaud my parents for being responsible and planning for their long term care. In their situation they would have been far ahead investing on their own, even if they had taken out whole life policies and paid for long term care out of the proceeds after they were gone.

A person never knows what the future brings and I think all of us here want to be responsible.

 

[cyber888]

I'm in the same Camp as you - I will not purchase LTC insurance.
We have other contingencies.

 

[ncbill]

OTOH, my mom was bedridden, completely unresponsive, total care, for nearly a decade before she died in her early 60s.

I am absolutely buying LTCi so whomever between my spouse & I ends up caregiver first has at least some help for home care until assisted living is needed.

I personally would also rather drop dead today than be forced to reside in any of the (non-CCRC) skilled nursing care facilities I saw during mom's illness.

So I have written my HCPOA so if I am diagnosed with any terminal illness, including dementia, curative care is prohibited...palliative care only.

I have seen plenty of people with terminal illnesses who got to suffer with that illness much longer than they should have suffered.

Simply because of the strong bias to cure in the medical care system here in the USA.

 

[Rianne]

This topic has probably been addressed at length, I would like to share my personal experience with Long Term Care Insurance.

Both of my parents had long term care policies that they took out about 30 years ago. Both offered $60 a day of coverage with a $100,000 maximum. Each had a 90 day waiting period before payment would begin.

In 2015 DF turned 90, we took care of him at home as long as we could and he ended up walking himself into a nursing home, he passed 29 days later. Cost was just over $8,000 per month.

In 2023 DM turned 92, I took care of her at home as long as I could and ended up moving her to an Assisted Living Facility, she passed within the month. Cost was $4,800 per month.

Neither of them came close to meeting the waiting period, and even if they had $60 a day wouldn't have come close to meeting their costs.

In fairness, LTC should not be expected to cover 100% of care expenses. Care expenses include a lot of expenses the person no longer has such as homeownership, food, utilities and other expenses they no longer have. Most have at least one other source of income such as pension, social security and investment income.

I don't see that I will ever purchase LTC insurance.

The biggest LTC expense exposure that I see is that if one spouse becomes invalid and the other still lives at home. In the case where it is down to one spouse living in an Assisted Living Facility is possible until extreme care is needed. At a cost of $4,500 a month that would be cheaper than living at home with a house and car.

I applaud my parents for being responsible and planning for their long term care. In their situation they would have been far ahead investing on their own, even if they had taken out whole life policies and paid for long term care out of the proceeds after they were gone.

A person never knows what the future brings and I think all of us here want to be responsible.

Agree! We did not buy LTCI for the reasons you stated. Do you know what they spent on the policy?

 

[Stormy Kromer]

Agree! We did not buy LTCI for the reasons you stated. Do you know what they spent on the policy?

About $60 per month each. Transamerica.

 

[Scuba]

OTOH, my mom was bedridden, completely unresponsive, total care, for nearly a decade before she died in her early 60s.

I am absolutely buying LTCi so whomever between my spouse & I ends up caregiver first has at least some help for home care until assisted living is needed.

I personally would also rather drop dead today than be forced to reside in any of the (non-CCRC) skilled nursing care facilities I saw during mom's illness.

So I have written my HCPOA so if I am diagnosed with any terminal illness, including dementia, curative care is prohibited...palliative care only.

I have seen plenty of people with terminal illnesses who got to suffer with that illness much longer than they should have suffered.

Simply because of the strong bias to cure in the medical care system here in the USA.

Curious about palliative care only for dementia - what does that mean in practical terms? My MIL was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s 7.5 years ago and until 1-2 years ago, still had a decent quality of life living by herself at home. We did have to move her into a nice Memory Care facility this year. She still recognizes people and can carry on limited conversations, but she asked me if her life could just be ended when she no longer recognizes people or cannot communicate any longer.

Unfortunately, I don’t know how that can legally be done anywhere in the US despite her wishes. Perhaps there are ways and I’m just not aware?

 

[big-papa]

My mother in law was in memory care for 8 years, then into regular nursing home for 2 more years. They did in-home care for a couple of years before this, but it was obvious that this wasn't working. Her twin sister and her brother also both had Alzheimers as did her aunt. So, yeah, we bought LTCi.

Cheers.

 

[cyber888]

My insurance to not developing Alzheimer, which is also Diabetes Type III or insulin resistance in the brain which kills brain cells, is to drastically reduce sugar and carbs in all my food. Staying health, exercising, staying active mentally and physically is the best insurance to avoid Alzheimer's. Just my 2 cents, but that's my insurance.

 

[LateToFIRE]

After the experience I had with in-laws who responsibly bought LTC insurance, I have not and will not ever buy LTC insurance. It's basically like betting against the house in a casino where the dealer can decide which cards to give you.

 

[ivinsfan]

My insurance to not developing Alzheimer, which is also Diabetes Type III or insulin resistance in the brain which kills brain cells, is to drastically reduce sugar and carbs in all my food. Staying health, exercising, staying active mentally and physically is the best insurance to avoid Alzheimer's. Just my 2 cents, but that's my insurance.

I wish you the best.. My MIL who milked cows for over 65 years, raised a huge garden. played softball and hunted ducks in her spare time developed this horrible disease. Just sayin.....she spent 7 years in a memory care unit probably because she was healthy as a horse.

 

[street]

My parents had small policy's with a life time policy. It was a blessing they had them they both stayed for 5 year apiece.

My wife and I have them which pays out about ~6K a month, lifetime, and no wait period to start.. If we pay on the policy for 25 years the payback is 7 month stay in nursing home.

A bad accident can put you into a nursing at any age. For us and the cost of our policy it was well worth it. We pay a litle over 1600$ a year for great policy's.

 

[Montecfo]

We self insure. Our experience is similar to the OP for my wife's parents.

Mine both passed at young ages without requiring care. Same with my stepdad.

Now, that of course does not mean insurance is not desired. I just think life insurance is a better way to address the LTC problem. It always pays off.

 

[Teacher Terry]

My oldest son just turned 50 and I am 69. He didn’t want to discuss it but I told him if I have any kind of dementia I don’t want anything treated even a simple infection. I told him to dope me up and let me die. From my experience with family and friends there’s worse things than dying. My condo would need to be sold and assets liquidated for long term care.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

In my 30's, I had a wife and kids. A risk was some accident where I would be in a long-term care kind of facility. At that time, DW and I could buy LTCi through a professional association. Cost per year was about $200 each. Coverage was 5 years at some reasonable daily cost. Of course there was the 90 day exclusion period.

We have been renewing annually for 30 plus years. Cost of the original coverage does not change. Where they get you is you must elect the 5% inflation additional coverage, at least every other year. So now that premium is about $1,500 a year, each. Coverage is $314 per day for 5 years. Of course, we still have the 90 day exclusion period. Plus there is 60% home health care.

$3,000 a year premium for that much coverage is a good deal. How do I know? Prudential stopped marketing to new businesses in 2011 and stopped all sales of this product a few years after that.

Would you continue the policy under the terms I quoted?

 

[38Chevy454]

DW and me are also on the no LTCI plan. Have other contingencies basically use up savings and then if that's all gone, have house and other assets that can be sold at the extreme. Call it self-insure for long term care. My basic issue with most LTCI is that many do not cover in-home care assistance. You either are in nursing home and they pay a portion of that after a waiting period, or you get nothing from the LTCI. Seems to be a bad deal when you look at all of the restrictions.

LTCI is not unlike any extended warranty program, lot of restrictions and controls to limit payout. I never buy extended warranty, and don't buy LTCI either. Sure you hear about stories where the LTCI did work out and had a favorable result, but those are far less than those that did not work out.

 

[Rianne]

About $60 per month each. Transamerica.

I calculate $43,200 over 30 years. Does that sound in the ballpark? We have Transamerica life insurance. I don't know, I guess it depends on what makes you feel comfortable.

 

[cyber888]

I wish you the best.. My MIL who milked cows for over 65 years, raised a huge garden. played softball and hunted ducks in her spare time developed this horrible disease. Just sayin.....she spent 7 years in a memory care unit probably because she was healthy as a horse.

Does not matter at all if she ate sugar,
that's still going to affect her. It's mainly sugar that will get you in the end.
The only effective formula is NO SUGAR & Low Carb + being active. Being super active will not negate Azheimers.

My Mom was very active and has Alzheimers in her 70s. Strong as a horse in her 70s but dementia got her.
But my grandparents in the late 90s were very sharp, no Alzheimers, and not that active.
The Huge difference is my Mom loves tons of SUGAR. That's it.

 

[REWahoo]

Would you continue the policy under the terms I quoted?

Yes, I would - provided that $3,000/yr premium cost fit comfortably into my budget.

Don't know your age and circumstances but if premiums increase in the future you might consider another option.

DW and I had similar policies and after 20 years opted to drop the 5% inflation rider. That reduced our premiums by 70% (yes, a huge decrease) and froze the benefit amount to the level it had reached when we dropped the inflation coverage. We wouldn't have considered this until we were older and had sufficient assets to support semi-self insuring ourselves.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

Yes, I would - provided that $3,000/yr premium cost fit comfortably into my budget.

Don't know your age and circumstances but if premiums increase in the future you might consider another option.

DW and I had similar policies and after 20 years opted to drop the 5% inflation rider. That reduced our premiums by 70% (yes, a huge decrease) and froze the benefit amount to the level it had reached when we dropped the inflation coverage. We wouldn't have considered this until we were older and had sufficient assets to support semi-self insuring ourselves.

Don't know if I can drop the inflation requirement. Will look into it. Thanks for the idea.

We are in mid-60's. We are able to manage the payments.

 

[Z3Dreamer]

Yes, I would - provided that $3,000/yr premium cost fit comfortably into my budget.

Don't know your age and circumstances but if premiums increase in the future you might consider another option.

DW and I had similar policies and after 20 years opted to drop the 5% inflation rider. That reduced our premiums by 70% (yes, a huge decrease) and froze the benefit amount to the level it had reached when we dropped the inflation coverage. We wouldn't have considered this until we were older and had sufficient assets to support semi-self insuring ourselves.

Yes, I can stop inflation and they won't cancel the policy. Thanks. A good option.

 

[big-papa]

Yes, I can stop inflation and they won't cancel the policy. Thanks. A good option.

We're with NY Life and we had a couple of pretty large rate increases after we purchased our policies. They didn't have a CPI based inflation option but they have several fixed COLA options. After one of the increases, I reduced the COLA option on my policy (didn't eliminate it though). Did this and a couple of other things to get the rate back to approximately what it was when we first purchased the policy. Wife is at higher risk than I am due to a significant amount of Alzheimer's in her family.

Cheers.

 

[Sarah S]

My sister had a ltc insurance that paid home care after a waiting period. It also covered home modifications up to a certain amount immediately. She had over three years of home care covered. This started about five years after getting her policy. I realize her situation was rare but it was a good thing for her.

My parents chose not to get it and both had years of home care for which they paid out of pocket. I have a policy I haven’t used yet mine has no wait for home care and three month for care in a facility. I did a ten year pay plan and avoided all but one rate increase time will tell whether it was a good choice for me

 

[REWahoo]

I have a policy I haven’t used yet mine has no wait for home care and three month for care in a facility. I did a ten year pay plan and avoided all but one rate increase time will tell whether it was a good choice for me

Like many types of insurance (home, flood, umbrella, disability, etc), NOT having to file a claim and "wasting all those premium payments" is my goal.

 

[big-papa]

Like many types of insurance (home, flood, umbrella, disability, etc), NOT having to file a claim and "wasting all those premium payments" is my goal.

Agree with this! That's sort of the point of insurance. Not everybody who purchases it will "get their money back" since that's not the purpose, which is to pool risk....

 

[Sarah S]

I too would prefer not to use it but I have a progressive neurodegenerative disease so unless something else takes me fairly soon I will use it.