Space encroachment on flights

[Amethyst]

She's probably related to the man who accused me of taking up "a lot of room" in the overhead bin with a leather briefcase, which happened to have flopped over on its side so he couldn't get his enormous barely-legal wheelie in. He could have just asked me to set the briefcase vertical.

She gets around--she's flown with at least four of us!

 

[athena53]

DH has a bad back and bad knees. We decided that in retirement, we would take less trips and fly First or Business class. We have pleasant flights and arrive at destinations feeling ready to go rather than cranky. It is far better for him to be comfortable and pain free.

Yeah, we gave up Coach in long-hauls a few years ago; DH was 15 years older, over 6' tall and had a creaky back. It cut down our travel to Europe but the trips were a lot more pleasant. Now that he's gone, I still book Business on long-hauls although I had to book Coach on the London-to-home segment of a round trip I booked to India for next year using miles. (I could have bought miles but they're crazy expensive.) I just got back from Canada and United's premium Coach seats were pretty nice- I upgraded on one 2-hour segment for $26 and would do that again. It's nice to have an option in between standard Coach and Business Class. The second leg of my trip home was in regular Coach and I really couldn't hold my head at a comfortable angle to see the seatback screen because i was too close to it!

The Flyer Talk forum has an huge thread devoted to people labeled as DYKWIA - Do You Know Who I Am? people. These are the ones who insist they should be upgraded to 1st class, push ahead of others when boarding, and generally act like the rest of us are 'gate lice'.

I believe "gate lice" is the term for people who cluster near the front of the line in the boarding area before their group is called, making it hard for people who CAN board to figure out where the line is.

 

[rodi]

Ok - here are my 3 horror stories.

The first is 20 years ago... and it was when the airlines were first starting to redo the pitch on the airplane to give less knee room. My flight over was fine - but my return flight was horrific. London to Philadelphia. I settle into my window seat in economy... even with seats fully upright my knees are pressing the seat in front of me. I'm 5'9". I remove the airline magazines and safety stuff and put it in the overhead - that gains me 1/2". The passenger in front of me does the max recline as soon as we take off... The seat is literally pressing hard into my knees. About an hour into the flight he turns around (not putting the seat up)... to admonish me because my knees are pressed into his back. Fortunately, the passenger in the middle seat looks at him and says - "would you like me to amputate her legs above the knees - she's scooted all the way back." That shut him up for a few moments. Then the meal arrives... he leaves his seat reclined... I cannot put my tray table down because he's so reclined. Again, the passenger next to me taps him and requests he sit up so I can eat my meal.... more glares. Ugh.

2nd story. A few years later.. I'm flying from San Jose to Philadelphia for business. Unfortunately, I was assigned a middle seat, as was my coworker. We're both stuck between LARGE men... Not so much fat (though far from thin).... older guys who were probably professional football players in a previous life. In my case - the mens shoulders fully encroached on my seat (from both sides) and they had FULL control of the arm rests. I spent the entire flight (6 hours) leaning forward with my elbows in my lap. Miserable.

3rd horror story. I was pregnant with my oldest (16 years ago). I was flying from Philadelphia to San Diego... I had the window seat. Two young women (20-somethings) sit next to me. Great - no seat encroachment, right? Nope - they proceeded to down several beers and pass out - sprawled. And I couldn't get past them or wake them in order to get out to use the rest room. (Did I mention I was pregnant - that's a big deal!!!).

Now I only sit in an aisle seat. Wish I could justify business/first class more but the cheap gene kicks in.

 

[Blue Collar Guy]

I'm about 5'2" tall with a medium frame. On several flights over the last year, I've been seated next to guys with huge shoulders and big torsos, such that I'm losing 25%+ of my space to them. I'm wondering if plane seats have gotten much narrower, or what is driving this. On a shorter flight it's not a big issue, but it's really uncomfortable on long flights.

Is the only way to avoid this to upgrade to business class? We almost always fly economy but upgrade to premium seats in the main cabin so we get earlier boarding and more leg room.

my last flight had a woman changing a dirty diaper and the other side eating a tuna sandwich. i swore off flying. the days of wearing a sport coat on a fight are dead. ill go business class if the need arrives, i dont care if its a 2 hour flight to florida, no more coach/economy/cheap seats for us.

 

[akck]

Horror Story Averted

We were in an exit row, window and middle seats, and aisle seat empty, no one else boarding. I think they were waiting for passengers from another flight and they board with a person taking about a third of my seat. Turned out he needed a seatbelt extension and was told it wasn't allowed in the exit rows. He ended up moving to an empty row in back. Dodged a big one on that flight.

 

[Scuba]

Yes the guy next to me on the flight I took last week needed a seatbelt extension. Perhaps since the seats have shrunk so much, people large enough to require seatbelt extensions should be required to purchase 2 seats? The large people I've sat next to have not been rude about taking my space. They've simply been too large to fit in the alloyed space so their shoulders, arms, and hips ended up crowding me into a much smaller space.

 

[Koolau]

Last few times I've faced the 9 to 10 hour flight from Paradise to the Mainland I swear I'm going to upgrade to first class. When the time comes, I just can't pull the trigger and spend 3 times as much for the comfort. I could afford it, but just can not justify it at the time. I just resign myself to one miserable day of being treated like a side of beef. I do pick aisle seats if at all possible. That helps but then I really have to watch for the FA shoving a cart into the elbow.

What helps the most is thinking of what travel was like 100+ years ago. Mark Twain loved the Islands. To get there he had to take a several day train trip to the west coast and then many days on a steam ship. True, he most likely went first class, but Instead of a day, it most likely took close to two weeks each way. For the difference in travel time, I guess I can be miserable for a day. Perhaps what makes it less bearable is remembering when it wasn't like it is now. Seats even in coach had adequate, if not excess room. Security was minimal or non existent. Speed was virtually the same as today. Alas, to have cheap seats and security, one has to be willing to be miserable, I suppose. YMMV

 

[Scrapr]

A few years ago I accidentally booked Mrs Scrapr & myself on a cross country flight in First Class. It was wonderful. I had to stop the FA from refilling my whiskey glass. I don't think I was legal to drive when we got home. To be fair it was my favorite whiskey

Ever since on long flights it's up in front for us. We just got back from Sweden picking up a Volvo. SAS was beyond great. Lay flat beds. They had 3 & 4 course meals. And a buffet bar for in between meal food. And pleasant, friendly FAs. The last leg was United. That was a rude awakening

I think we are too spoiled now to fly Economy on long hauls.

 

[athena53]

A few years ago I accidentally booked Mrs Scrapr & myself on a cross country flight in First Class. It was wonderful. I had to stop the FA from refilling my whiskey glass. I don't think I was legal to drive when we got home. To be fair it was my favorite whiskey

<snip>

I think we are too spoiled now to fly Economy on long hauls.

Yeah, what spoiled DH was the Bombay Sapphire gin and the made-to-order ice cream sundaes!

 

[sengsational]

When booking, and you look at the seating chart nowadays, and they want to charge you $35 to upgrade to an otherwise "ordinary" seat that just happens to be a few rows ahead of the free seat, you gotta wonder if the one you're paying for is going be next to a linebacker!

Would you pay extra to be in an "under 180 pound" row? For me, it would certainly be worth more than the same seat, 10 rows forward, with the same chance of having to give up shoulder room to an overly large neighbor.

Of course, that wouldn't work, would it, since it would concentrate the large people in rows together. What a disaster that would be!

Will there ever be a day when airlines will force larger customers to purchase larger seats?

I wonder if they could make a "kiddie row", where there would be one seat for a standard sized person, one seat for a narrow person (a kid), and one seat for a larger sized person. The kid could fly cheaper, and the larger person could pay a bit more. Seems only fair to me.

 

[Bestwifeever]

We took an international flight last month that had all four classes of service: first, business, premium economy, and economy. The ticket prices must be based on real estate, or how many square inches each type of seat takes up plus the amenities each offers. We were in economy as we had a package, and as someone noted above, the little video screen was so close to my face that I could hardly focus, my short legs hit the seat in front of me, and no way could the meal stay on the tray table without holding it in place. At some point claustrophobia will be an issue--people who don't fly very often are not going to realize how closed in that experience has become until they have fly somewhere. Like an MRI in the sky, but MRIs offer more room. Add in the larger person sitting on the aisle who has now trapped you into the middle seat.... We have one more international flight this year that I will try to upgrade if at all possible.

 

[Big_Hitter]

Will there ever be a day when airlines will force larger customers to purchase larger seats?

I'm a big dude but I can still get that seat belt (easily) buckled. Now those that need a seat belt extension, maybe...

 

[akck]

A few years ago I accidentally booked Mrs Scrapr & myself on a cross country flight in First Class. It was wonderful. I had to stop the FA from refilling my whiskey glass. I don't think I was legal to drive when we got home. To be fair it was my favorite whiskey

Ever since on long flights it's up in front for us. We just got back from Sweden picking up a Volvo. SAS was beyond great. Lay flat beds. They had 3 & 4 course meals. And a buffet bar for in between meal food. And pleasant, friendly FAs. The last leg was United. That was a rude awakening

I think we are too spoiled now to fly Economy on long hauls.

For any flights over 3 hours, my wife almost demands first class. This started after I reached elite status and we received a free upgrade. Since then, I purchase an elite upgrade outright if available or scan our dates to see if it's offered later. We only wait to see if we get a free upgrade on flights less than 3 hours. It certainly beats the roulette you play in the main cabin.

We've also come to the conclusion that it's worth the extra comfort versus us leaving a bigger inheritance. I don't think we'll do that much international travel outside North America, so upgrading won't be that big of an expense.

 

[Cobra9777]

I guess I'm an outlier, or maybe I have low expectations, or maybe I'm numb to it after 25 years of business travel, much of which was on domestic Asian airlines with REALLY cramped seating areas. I'm 6-4, 195, and rarely have an issue flying in Coach. I always book an aisle seat which helps with leg room and broad shoulders, at least until the drink cart hits me. Yes, it would be nice if we could just "beam" ourselves to Spain, but until that day comes, I just try to keep things in perspective... it sure is a lot faster and more comfortable than a wooden sailing vessel, not so long ago.

 

[Sunset]

We took an international flight last month that had all four classes of service: first, business, premium economy, and economy. The ticket prices must be based on real estate, or how many square inches each type of seat takes up plus the amenities each offers. We were in economy as we had a package, and as someone noted above, the little video screen was so close to my face that I could hardly focus, my short legs hit the seat in front of me, and no way could the meal stay on the tray table without holding it in place. At some point claustrophobia will be an issue--people who don't fly very often are not going to realize how closed in that experience has become until they have fly somewhere. Like an MRI in the sky, but MRIs offer more room. Add in the larger person sitting on the aisle who has now trapped you into the middle seat.... We have one more international flight this year that I will try to upgrade if at all possible.

So we are soon going to fly on KLM , and as I have not flown international before, I have no idea of what to expect.
What plane/airline were you recently on, that had such tight seating ?

 

[audreyh1]

Sometimes when I buy tickets, upgrades to first class are offered on some domestic legs for ~$100 per person and I often buy it for the longer legs as that is way cheaper than paying for first class. We've even gotten a chance to buy a mainland to Hawaii leg for ~$129 pp which was a great deal for a 5 hour flight, especially considering the views to be enjoyed upon landing in Hawaii.

But on international flights, upgrade offers are thousands of dollars. For example, this last set of tickets IAH to AMS round trip, we were offered upgrade to first class but only on the return leg for an additional ~$3,000 per person on top of a $1277 ticket. Now why would I want to do that when first class for the entire flight was ~$4,000 per person? Or I could get down to ~$3058 per person by switching airlines?

 

[kimcdougc]

I am one of those fluffy persons. Short at 5'4'. I always buy an asle first class ticket because I am a fluffy person and I don't want to encroach on someone else's space. It is worth the extra $ to me for both myself and the person next to me to be comfortable.

 

[txtig]

So we are soon going to fly on KLM , and as I have not flown international before, I have no idea of what to expect.
What plane/airline were you recently on, that had such tight seating ?

One of my best flights ever was on KLM. I can't recall my final destination, but the first leg was Houston to Amsterdam. I had booked a business class seat and was expecting that the equipment would be a KLM 747. It turned out that the flight was on a modified 737, business class only, with 44 Business class seats. The configuration was two seats on each side of the aisle. This particular flight was only about half full, so only about 22 total passengers on board. With so few passengers, it felt almost like a private plane. There were quite a few flight attendants, and the service was the best I had ever experienced. Never had an opportunity to ride on this type of plane since, but I sure enjoyed that flight.

 

[Bestwifeever]

So we are soon going to fly on KLM , and as I have not flown international before, I have no idea of what to expect.
What plane/airline were you recently on, that had such tight seating ?

I'm sure your flight will be fine. We were on a Boeing 747-400, British Airways. The flight attendants were very nice and professional, the food was fine, it was just that it was such a tight space. The seats were 3-4-3 across with very narrow aisles (but plenty of overhead bin space!) I think this gives some info about the ticket class: https://www.britishairways.com/en-us/information/travel-classes/economy/world-traveller --there is one photo of a row of seats with the row in front of it that shows how close they are together.

 

[Moemg]

We just flew Lufthansa from Frankfurt in premium economy . It was 2 -4-2 . Our seats were wide and comfortable with lots of leg room . Service was fabulous . If you do not want to pay business prices this is a good alternative . We booked early and got the front seats which had leg rests .It was like being in a comfortable recliner .

 

[Bestwifeever]

We just flew Lufthansa from Frankfurt in premium economy . It was 2 -4-2 . Our seats were wide and comfortable with lots of leg room . Service was fabulous . If you do not want to pay business prices this is a good alternative . We booked early and got the front seats which had leg rests .It was like being in a comfortable recliner .

+1--we were upgraded to this last summer coming home from Germany. I had thought the seats were just in a "better" location than regular economy so we were thrilled to find it was a completely different level of food and drink service, type of seats, entertainment, etc.

 

[Souschef]

For the past few years we have flown BA Business Class on our European flights using miles. On one flight we were in the upper deck in a 747 (never again-trying to get your carry on up and down that spiral staircase) My DW had 4 windows all to herself.
One of the best perks of Business Class is the lounges at both ends of our flights.

 

[Meadbh]

For the past few years we have flown BA Business Class on our European flights using miles. On one flight we were in the upper deck in a 747 (never again-trying to get your carry on up and down that spiral staircase) My DW had 4 windows all to herself.
One of the best perks of Business Class is the lounges at both ends of our flights.

The spiral staircase was featured on the 747-100 and 747-200. Starting with the 747-300, the staircase is straight. I think they realized that escape would have been difficult with the spiral staircase.

I was recently in the top deck of a Lufthansa 747-400 and the staircase was definitely straight. Two escape hatches. 24 business class seats. It was quite warm up there!

 

[Fedup]

For the past few years we have flown BA Business Class on our European flights using miles. On one flight we were in the upper deck in a 747 (never again-trying to get your carry on up and down that spiral staircase) My DW had 4 windows all to herself.
One of the best perks of Business Class is the lounges at both ends of our flights.

I read you can spot celebrities there at the lounge in LAX.

 

[jollystomper]

I am normal size but with broad shoulders, so I try not to be the one to crowd others. I prefer an aisle seat and keep away from the inner armrest as much as possible, while trying to avoid getting knocked in the shoulders from folks walking down the aisle and the food/beverage carts.

I have experienced many of the bad encroachment stories mentioned, but I did have one encroachment situation that was rather fun and makes up for the bad experiences . Back in the mid-90s I was flying to Las Vegas for a business meeting, in the aisle seat. A very beautiful woman sat in the window seat. The middle seat was empty. I just said hello and left it at that. I'm not one for conversing on flights. After takeoff she said something about being nervous on planes, I made some reply that she found funny, and she started conversing with me. Halfway through the flight she decides she doesn't want to lean over to chat, so she moves into the middle seat to talk with me. I'm trying to give her space, but she was a very animated, touchy-feely talker. To top it off... she was an "exotic dancer" (she made the air quotes when saying that) heading in to do some shows. We had one of the more interesting conversations I have had in my life.

After we landed there was further adventure of her and her manager/bodyguard trying to convince me to attend one of her shows, offering free admission and drinks ... but that part strays too much from the thread topic, so I'll stop here.