Single men of ER...chime in pls

[haha]

Thanks to everyone who posted. This thread overflows with heartfelt comments and in some cases tragedy. ER is definitely about more than finances to us.

Ha

 

[Hermit]

I hear you, had similar thoughts and experience.

For me, the comparison is always there, just a matter of how close it is to the surface. Smile every time I think about her in a tight denim dress

I try to remember that the life I shared with her is different than the one I'll have going forward, or that we would have now - no longer building a career, life or assets, raising young kids (they're teens now) and dealing with the associated social dynamics. Very grateful for what we shared and try to stay hopeful about the life ahead.

I realized after my wife died that I have always loved having women in my life - being around them, working with/for them, socializing with them, sharing a life together. My brothers are the same way, so I've decided to blame my mother for that .

Once I understood that, it was easier to think about what kind of woman and relationship made sense for me. I'm more clear on that now than a few years ago (wife died early 2014), but still not certain enough to make a long term commitment to anyone. One of my brothers waited 8 years from the death of his wife before re-marrying. Said he just wasn't ready to open himself up before then.

Free advice is worth what you paid, so here is some from my experience, deal with it as you see fit:
1. Be thankful for what you shared with her
2. Understand it was a set of circumstances that you'll never see again
3. As best you can, separate what you want in the future from what you had in the past.
4. Don't apologize if you're never willing to make the emotional effort and commitment to share your life with someone. You know the downside like few do.

Best of luck to you!

Your free advice is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[2017ish]

I hear you, had similar thoughts and experience.

For me, the comparison is always there, just a matter of how close it is to the surface. Smile every time I think about her in a tight denim dress

I try to remember that the life I shared with her is different than the one I'll have going forward, or that we would have now - no longer building a career, life or assets, raising young kids (they're teens now) and dealing with the associated social dynamics. Very grateful for what we shared and try to stay hopeful about the life ahead.

....

Just throwing this in. My mom and her husband each came from roughly 50 year marriages that ended by death of my dad and "Bob"s wife. I have no doubts that each of them are incapable of forgetting the life they had with the first spouse (nor should they, even if they didn't both have kids!). But, coming on 10 years in their second marriage, they seem to be quite happy--and it is great to see near-octogenarians smiling at each other in that way.

FWIW, they met via mutual friends--he actually was a friend of one of her younger brothers in high school, but they didn't know each other...

 

[scrabbler1]

Once in my early 30's I did speed dating - the worst! It was at a martini bar. They gave us all drinks to mill around for an hour, then sat down for our 2nd drink (bad idea) at a long table. The women all stayed in place on one side, the men kept moving one chair down for 5 minute chats... so you'd hear the guy using the same banter on the one before you and after. By the time the last guy reached me I was well over this and well into my 2nd martini. He said he was divorced with 5 young kids. I about fell over laughing. He wasn't kidding. The remaining 4 minutes were very awkward.

I tried speed dating a few times back in 2001-2003. It was lousy. For those of you who aren't familiar with what happens after the 5-minute "chats," you give to the event's organizer a list of the women you spoke to and check off "yes" for anyone you would like to have further contact with. If that person did the same for you, the event's organizer would send both people contact info.

Unless the women had some big dealbreaker trait, casting a wide net I often checked the "yes" box for at least 2/3 of the women. However, it was very, very rare I'd hear anything good from the event's organizer about reciprocal matches. I sometimes asked the event's organizer what the deal was and he told me most of the women never checked any of the boxes for the men they met at the event, making matches difficult and rare. And it wasn't like these women were super-spectacular people. They were pretty ordinary, middle-class women with ordinary jobs and ordinary looks. But they seemed to have extraordinary criteria for men, whatever those criteria were.

It wasn't much different from personal ads. Back in the 1980s and 1990s, I replied to many ads but rarely got a call back. I soon learned that these ad systems greatly favored women, especially those under 30 or 35. They would place ads and get piles and piles of replies, often unsure or unable to handle them all. They could also be picky, very picky, as to who to call back. Meanwhile, when I placed an ad, I received very few replies so I couldn't afford to be picky as to who I'd call back, as in every woman got a call back. The women I spoke to told me when they replied to an ad, they almost always got a call back. They were totally stunned when I told them that men rarely, if ever, got calls back when they replied to an ad. It was so one-sided.

In the 1990s, when these ad systems went to phone-based services, they would charge $2 a minute to call and leave a message. But most of the money they made were from women's ads and male replies, not the other way around. They hated placing ads for male advertisers because they generated so little money. They often forced men to wait longer before running their ads and would run them for the minimum amount of time, while women's ads were placed quickly and often allowed to run for additional time. It was so one-sided.

 

[Chuckanut]

It wasn't much different from personal ads.

Several years ago a friend of mine told me this story about her father had found his current wife of well over 20 years.

After his first wife passed away, he waited about a year to get over the loss. He then placed an on-gong ad in the Personal section of the newspaper. Two to four days a week, depending upon the results of the latest ad, he would occupy a table at a local donut shop.

He bought a box of donuts and arranged for multiple coffees. He scheduled women who responded to his ad into one hour sessions. Each woman cost him a cup of coffee and a donut. He used 45 minutes to talk and get to know her. He took the remaining 15 minutes for making notes about each woman after she had left. Then on to the next woman. In six months he found his next wife and they have been happily married.

I'm not sure how he handled the situation where the 'next' woman came to early.

 

[Amethyst]

That was a young person's mating game, where young women need to be picky, since pretty much everyone and his brother wants to have sex with them. Meanwhile, they usually have in mind "would I really want to have this one's kids?"

One wonders how this squares with the many, many tales one hears of old widows swamping old widowers with attention.

I

It wasn't much different from personal ads. Back in the 1980s and 1990s, I replied to many ads but rarely got a call back. I soon learned that these ad systems greatly favored women, especially those under 30 or 35. They would place ads and get piles and piles of replies, often unsure or unable to handle them all. They could also be picky, very picky, as to who to call back. Meanwhile, when I placed an ad, I received very few replies so I couldn't afford to be picky as to who I'd call back, as in every woman got a call back. The women I spoke to told me when they replied to an ad, they almost always got a call back. They were totally stunned when I told them that men rarely, if ever, got calls back when they replied to an ad. It was so one-sided.

.

 

[braumeister]

Each woman cost him a cup of coffee and a donut.

Funny story!

Interesting how often food can be a part of the process.

Meeting someone was the farthest thing from my mind when the future DW and I both reached for the same stale cookie at the hospitality table of a professional event. One thing led to another and we've been married for 28 years now.

 

[Out of Steam]

Thanks to everyone who posted. This thread overflows with heartfelt comments and in some cases tragedy.

One thing I've learned here is that there are quite a few widowers in this forum.

 

[aja8888]

One thing I've learned here is that there are quite a few widowers in this forum.

Yeah, the married folks need to be careful as to what they post in this thread..

 

[athena53]

He bought a box of donuts and arranged for multiple coffees. He scheduled women who responded to his ad into one hour sessions. Each woman cost him a cup of coffee and a donut. <snip>
I'm not sure how he handled the situation where the 'next' woman came to early.

So was it a dealbreaker if she ate 2 donuts?

 

[aja8888]

Several years ago a friend of mine told me this story about her father had found his current wife of well over 20 years.

After his first wife passed away, he waited about a year to get over the loss. He then placed an on-gong ad in the Personal section of the newspaper. Two to four days a week, depending upon the results of the latest ad, he would occupy a table at a local donut shop.

He bought a box of donuts and arranged for multiple coffees. He scheduled women who responded to his ad into one hour sessions. Each woman cost him a cup of coffee and a donut. He used 45 minutes to talk and get to know her. He took the remaining 15 minutes for making notes about each woman after she had left. Then on to the next woman. In six months he found his next wife and they have been happily married.

I'm not sure how he handled the situation where the 'next' woman came to early.

Two to four days a week for 6 months? Wow, he must have gone through a lot of donuts during that time! I suspect the *winning woman* was the one that passed on eating a donut

 

[Fedup]

I would not be winning because I would go just for the donuts. No one but at least a few. Maybe because in real life I don't eat donuts regularly, I have them once a year as a treat.

 

[GravitySucks]

One thing I've learned here is that there are quite a few widowers in this forum.

In my case Health insurance for one is affordable. Two would have Been A stretch.

Also, my motivation to climb the ladder and pile extra money went way down when reminders of my mortality got slammed in my face.

 

[athena53]

That was a young person's mating game, where young women need to be picky, since pretty much everyone and his brother wants to have sex with them. Meanwhile, they usually have in mind "would I really want to have this one's kids?"

One wonders how this squares with the many, many tales one hears of old widows swamping old widowers with attention.

Widows tend to outnumber widowers, especially in the older age groups. I don't know what drives them to go after widowed men other than money and security, maybe? My maternal grandfather remarried less than 2 years after Grandma died. SG (step-grandma) was also widowed- I later found out from my mother that when SG's first husband died she found that his pension was individual only with no survivor benefit (laws have since changed and now the spouse is required to agree to that in writing). SS also went from 150% of his for the two of them to just the Survivor benefit. Her offspring (she would have been in her 70s by then) told her that if she wanted a decent lifestyle she'd have to find a husband. And so she did.

I think they were happy together but Grandpa, who'd been frugal with money all his life, finally realized he couldn't take it with him and SG got a lot more baubles than Grandma did. My mother was not happy. She didn't care about any inheritance, but she DID hate to see that SG got things her mother never had.

So, it may be the old-school widows who weren't left with much money and aren't comfortable with managing money, home repair and all the stuff their late husband handled, and who are finding that they have a lot of competition going for too few available men. Then there are the rest of us, whose attitude is "it's kind of nice not having to answer to anyone and it would take one heck of a man to make me want to give that up".

 

[SecondCor521]

^ There is also an allegedly growing trend of widows banding together in group-living situations. Kind of a "Golden Girls" scenario I guess. Personally I know of a pair of sisters who live together at my Dad's retirement facility - they seem to enjoy the setup. Not sure how much it is motivated by money concerns since they go on cruises occasionally.

 

[Scuba]

I think that behavior occurs in both sexes. I define "flirting" as stuff I never do- touching the guy when you address him, going overboard with the compliments, acting as if every word he says is fascinating- too artificial.

OTOH, I'm a firm believer in give- and-take conversation. One of the worst offenders I ever encountered was the husband of a couple DH and I met on a cruise. Every single thing we said about our travels, he brought the subject back to himself and HIS travels. Q: "DH and I loved Dubrovnik- have you been there?" A: "No, but when Poopsie and I were photographing penguins in Patagonia..." Incapable of an answer such as, "Yes, and we LOVED ___- did you see it?" Or "No, how was the climate?"

I always make sure the other person has an opportunity to talk and the conversation isn't just about me.

+1
So many people these days seem very self-focused. When I am with a particularly self-absorbed person, sometimes I consciously stop talking at all and see how long it is before the other person notices. Sadly, there are some who never do!

There are also quite a few people who ask questions but don't seem really interested in hearing the answer, demonstrated by cutting me off pretty quickly and bringing the conversation back to themselves as quickly as possible. Some people tell long stories one after another without seeming to realize they are dominating the conversation. A good reminder to myself to try to genuinely engage with others. Part of being a good conversationalist is listening.

 

[aja8888]

We have a widow living next door to us that lost her husband about 5 years ago. She is 72, petite, very active and attractive. She is also pretty well off from what I can tell from conversations with me around tax time. She is my dog walking "buddy" since with DW's illness, she is not capable of walking across the street, let alone for a mile or two. I also function as her handyman for little fixes and techno-geek stuff as I had a part time computer repair and network installation business for about 5 years and still can handle the technical stuff.

In the three years we have been in this community (55+ age group), I have never seen my neighbor "date" a guy although there are several available here. Any social things she does is with a few girlfriends (other widows) or her daughter's family who live 30 miles away. Discussions about things in general I have had with her on a casual basis leads me to believe she is quite content living alone and doing things with he female friends. She never has mentioned to me anything about starting a relationship with a man.

Am I right sensing that the majority of older widows that are well off are pretty much content living without a new guy in their life, other than as a friend? Or maybe my sample is pretty small and I don't see things as they really are?

 

[Calico]

Is there a ready term you use for this kind of arrangement that women would generally readily understand? It sounds like possibly the kind of arrangement I want, and if there were a term for it that would be helpful.

Try googling "Living Apart Together." You will find numerous articles about it. I just read one a few days ago (maybe in the NYT?) and was intrigued by the concept.

Good luck!

 

[SecondCor521]

Try googling "Living Apart Together." You will find numerous articles about it. I just read one a few days ago (maybe in the NYT?) and was intrigued by the concept.

Good luck!

Thanks, will do!!

 

[Amethyst]

And then there are those whose questions are intrusive and/or domineering. There is a man at our gym (there is one at every gym I'm sure) who asks loud, demanding, pseudo-"funny" questions of everyone.
He went after me one day..."What time do you get up in the morning?" "Oh, around 4 a.m. on gym days."
"Oh yeah? What time do you go to bed?"
"Uh...it varies..."
"How many hours a night do you sleep?"
I said, with an uneasy laugh, "Wow, those are really funny questions!"
He got all huffy. "Hmph. Well, I was just trying to make conversation! Sometimes I like to have a conversation with people. I guess I won't bother talking with you any more since it bothers you so much!"
And he now Glares at me whenever we happen to meet.

+1
So many people these days seem very self-focused. When I am with a particularly self-absorbed person, sometimes I consciously stop talking at all and see how long it is before the other person notices. Sadly, there are some who never do!

There are also quite a few people who ask questions but don't seem really interested in hearing the answer, demonstrated by cutting me off pretty quickly and bringing the conversation back to themselves as quickly as possible. Some people tell long stories one after another without seeming to realize they are dominating the conversation. A good reminder to myself to try to genuinely engage with others. Part of being a good conversationalist is listening.

 

[jollystomper]

And then there are those whose questions are intrusive and/or domineering. There is a man at our gym (there is one at every gym I'm sure) who asks loud, demanding, pseudo-"funny" questions of everyone.
He went after me one day..."What time do you get up in the morning?" "Oh, around 4 a.m. on gym days."
"Oh yeah? What time do you go to bed?"
"Uh...it varies..."
"How many hours a night do you sleep?"
I said, with an uneasy laugh, "Wow, those are really funny questions!"
He got all huffy. "Hmph. Well, I was just trying to make conversation! Sometimes I like to have a conversation with people. I guess I won't bother talking with you any more since it bothers you so much!"
And he now Glares at me whenever we happen to meet.

Talk about lack of social graces on his part...

 

[Moemg]

Am I right sensing that the majority of older widows that are well off are pretty much content living without a new guy in their life, other than as a friend? Or maybe my sample is pretty small and I don't see things as they really are?

Most of my friends are widows and reasonably well off . Most of them are content living alone but have close friendships with other women . It is nice to have someone to count on as you age and it does not have to be a partner .They do not need a man but they want a companion.

 

[kcowan]

Many of my wife's female buddies were divorced and were of decent means. They seemed to have no need for a partner. A couple did end up with another partner after many years. I think it is just something that happens because they are not searching.

 

[Fedup]

Most of my friends are widows and reasonably well off . Most of them are content living alone but have close friendships with other women . It is nice to have someone to count on as you age and it does not have to be a partner .They do not need a man but they want a companion.

The only reason I can really think of when I get to be 72 is for somebody to pick up dead animals like rats or rabbits. Like the one just died in front of our yard.

 

[Moemg]

The only reason I can really think of when I get to be 72 is for somebody to pick up dead animals like rats or rabbits. Like the one just died in front of our yard.

How about taking you for your surgery and then taking care of you post op ? That is when it is nice to have someone you can count on .