Children

[jollystomper]

I grew up seeing more a few folks raising their grandchildren not by choice but by necessity, and can name a dozen friends/acquaintances who currently are raising their grandchildren and have additional stress with little or no hope of retiring or even slowing things down. Personally this is a not a situation I would choose to be in, particularly just for the sake of having grandchildren.

I leave it totally up to my kids as to if they choose to have kids - the only caveat we give them is "Other than via a tragedy, Mom and Dad are not here to raise any of your kids, that will be your job".

 

[meierlde]

Of course if you listen to the doom and gloom news it is easy to decide that the world is coming to an end, and why bring children into a major vale of pain that the news would have you believe the future is going to be. I have always been single, and have no kids. Of course during the early 1980s the doom and gloom news convinced me that nuclear war was just around the corner as well. (and this was before cable news).
As my father said when my mother brought the subject of children up " Its none of your Damned business" and shut her up about the subject forever.

 

[ivorybird]

Well it looks there are two camps on my DW's position about "no grandkids => no inheritance"...the "two words" on the way out the door camp, and the "damn straight" camp. Well, there's more to the story...

1) DW has always expressed to both of the kids how much she wants grandchildren.
2) the way that DS told her they weren't planning to have children was something like "kids are a pain in the butt".
3) every penny that he and DIL save ends up being used to go to Disney world every year to 18 months. So not only do they think kids are a pain in the @$$, they are still children themselves.
4) they take no initiative for a career or for saving for a rainy day, let alone retirement.
5) it took DS 7 years equivalent to graduate from college...he's lazy and indecisive.
6) they have no interest in owning their own home...mowing the lawn is a pain in the butt. He'd rather be drawing cartoons (but not good enough to earn money doing it)

And the big kicker, we don't mind sharing our wealth with the kids...and we are happy to help them better their lives with our wealth. But if all they want to do is toss their money (all of it) into the wind, we feel that subsidizing the tossing of money into the wind is irresponsible parenting. We don't tell them what to do with their money, but I see no reason not to control how ours is spent. I'm pretty sure DW and I would feel somewhat differently about the situation if these adult children were doing something noble with their lives instead of just throwing their time in mortality away.

I agree that having grandchildren would be wonderful. However, just as I wouldn't insist on my kids being doctors or lawyers just because I wanted that, I couldn't imagine insisting they be parents unless they wanted to be. It really is a vocation that someone should choose for themselves. Raising children is hard enough when you want them - it must be terrible if you're doing it to please someone else.

It also seems a bit strange that you would want them to have children when you think they aren't responsible now - so you'd be willing to give them cash to be irresponsible with children, but not if they're just plain irresponsible? Rather than making the inheritance contingent on procreation, perhaps making it contingent on responsibility would make some sense? I don't know how old your kids are, but it's possible that with some more time and maturity things will change. I took 6 years to get through college (indecisive) but wound up going on to get a graduate degree and make in the 6 figures now. I was a late bloomer

None of this is to say that I think you SHOULD feel obligated to give money to your kids. We tell ours we're giving all our money to "the guru" when we die so they aren't expecting it. I fully expect, however, that they will wind up with some/all of it assuming they are responsible (which remains to be seen, as they are still in their teens.)

 

[travelover]

I can't imagine having been born because my grandparents coerced my parents into it. It is tough enough raising kids that you want.

My in-laws asked when we were having kids and I told them it was none of their business. That was the end of the discussion.

 

[Amethyst]

You don't know much about this situation, or you wouldn't express such a definite, negative, opinion.

You can have no idea what sort of opinion I am likely to express at any time, under any set of informational constraints.

That said, I read the additional background, which is very sad but not as unusual as one might think, and I still don't get why you wish to punish your kids by disinheritance because they don't want to reproduce. It sounds like they don't need your money anyway, so if your aim is to hurt them, it will go wide of the mark.

Finally, I'm curious. What if they change their minds some day and do want children, but for some reason cannot have them? Don't laugh; it happens. Will you relent because they are now complying with the spirit of your desire, or will only compliance with the letter of it do?

 

[Amethyst]

Ha ha! We went to Disney World this year and loved every minute. Yes, we are still kids. With wrinkles.

3) every penny that he and DIL save ends up being used to go to Disney world every year to 18 months. So not only do they think kids are a pain in the @$$, they are still children themselves.

 

[Rambler]

Ha ha! We went to Disney World this year and loved every minute. Yes, we are still kids. With wrinkles.

Hahaha...that may be true, but you didnt spend your life savings...if you did, I doubt you'd be here.

 

[Chuckanut]

Well it looks there are two camps on my DW's position about "no grandkids => no inheritance"...the "two words" on the way out the door camp, and the "damn straight" camp. Well, there's more to the story...

1) DW has always expressed to both of the kids how much she wants grandchildren.
2) the way that DS told her they weren't planning to have children was something like "kids are a pain in the butt".
3) every penny that he and DIL save ends up being used to go to Disney world every year to 18 months. So not only do they think kids are a pain in the @$$, they are still children themselves.
4) they take no initiative for a career or for saving for a rainy day, let alone retirement.
5) it took DS 7 years equivalent to graduate from college...he's lazy and indecisive.
6) they have no interest in owning their own home...mowing the lawn is a pain in the butt. He'd rather be drawing cartoons (but not good enough to earn money doing it)

And the big kicker, we don't mind sharing our wealth with the kids...and we are happy to help them better their lives with our wealth. But if all they want to do is toss their money (all of it) into the wind, we feel that subsidizing the tossing of money into the wind is irresponsible parenting. We don't tell them what to do with their money, but I see no reason not to control how ours is spent. I'm pretty sure DW and I would feel somewhat differently about the situation if these adult children were doing something noble with their lives instead of just throwing their time in mortality away.

You have a point.

But, the original message came across as No-Grandchildren = No-Money. Nothing else was mentioned. Next time may I suggest adding something like "due to unusual negative circumstances in the family we have decided that the only way we will let our kids inherit is if we get grandchildren."

I think all of us can relate at some level with ungrateful children who have spurned many of life's normal responsibilities. We may know others in this situation, but all to often our own children end up that way despite our best efforts.

Leave us guessing as to the circumstance. It's really none of our business.

 

[Moemg]

Kids & grand kids are priceless, If I had to choose I would rather give up retirement
and go back to work than not have them in my life.

+1

 

[scrabbler1]

Kids & grand kids are priceless, If I had to choose I would rather give up retirement
and go back to work than not have them in my life.

I had to choose between keeping my retirement but include kids versus giving up my retirement but remaining childfree, I would give up my retirement. Two awful choices, though.

 

[Senator]

No kids, I was on the early retirement program. Never wanted them, they are also the leading cause of virtually all negative environmental issues.

I picked up my sisters kid once. It spit up, and she laughed, "it's just milk". It wasn't, it was puke. And that is the good stuff that comes out of them.

 

[MRG]

No kids, I was on the early retirement program. Never wanted them, they are also the leading cause of virtually all negative environmental issues.

I picked up my sisters kid once. It spit up, and she laughed, "it's just milk". It wasn't, it was puke. And that is the good stuff that comes out of them.

You made me laugh.
We never wanted to do the kid thing and didn't.

Twenty years ago a co-w*rker brought in her 3 month old for a visit. Somebody hands the little guy to me and he immediately gets very ill all over me. Better yet there were pictures.

 

[1-31-18]

I think all of us can relate at some level with ungrateful children who have spurned many of life's normal responsibilities. We may know others in this situation, but all to often our own children end up that way despite our best efforts. .

Obviously I'm in the "damn straight" category. And I won't ask the OP intrusive questions about why his DW feels that way, nor will I make fatuous claims about how wonderful the little darlings are all the time in my perfect life (which is perfect precisely because I am besotted by my special snowflake children, of course).

The ungrateful child ... sigh. "How sharper than a serpant's tooth it is."

Bottom line is that it's the parent's money, not the child's. She could spend it all on a bequest to the Society to Suppress Disrespectful Children and Helicopter Parents and the child would have no recourse.

In fact (which is not to say "in fairy tales"), there are plenty of children who deserve to be disinherited. Refusing to continue the family line due to a lack of maturity, responsibility and filial respect is the last straw for some of us and requires no further justification.

 

[CyclingInvestor]

Never liked or connected with kids, even when I was one. Was able to get clipped at 26 before I got married. Never regretted it. Much better with dogs, which I have always had several.

 

[Meadbh]

In fact (which is not to say "in fairy tales"), there are plenty of children who deserve to be disinherited. Refusing to continue the family line due to a lack of maturity, responsibility and filial respect is the last straw for some of us and requires no further justification.

Wow. I happen to find this comment highly offensive (what's so special about your family line?). I am putting you on my Ignore list. Goodbye.

 

[mamadogmamacat]

Actually i was trying to get the thread back to the OP's original question/reflection, which i thought most of my last post actually did. The negativity I was referring to was the back and forth about disinheriting kids who wont have kids, which is not something we are ever likely to get agreement on. looks like the useless negativity is back.

 

[Sunset]

......

In fact.... there are plenty of children who deserve to be disinherited. Refusing to continue the family line due to a lack of maturity, responsibility and filial respect is the last straw for some of us and requires no further justification.

My cousin is one of those, living off his fathers trust fund, since he never had a "real" job. And my cousin told me how he is just waiting for dear dad to die, so he can hire a lawyer to break the trust as "it's my money" he said.

His dear dad is 96, so I hope he lives to 126.

 

[Amethyst]

Maybe some were being negative, but I found humor in the discussion. So much harrumphing!

The negativity I was referring to was the back and forth about disinheriting kids who wont have kids, which is not something we are ever likely to get agreement on. looks like the useless negativity is back.

 

[ivinsfan]

Obviously I'm in the "damn straight" category. And I won't ask the OP intrusive questions about why his DW feels that way, nor will I make fatuous claims about how wonderful the little darlings are all the time in my perfect life (which is perfect precisely because I am besotted by my special snowflake children, of course).

The ungrateful child ... sigh. "How sharper than a serpant's tooth it is."

Bottom line is that it's the parent's money, not the child's. She could spend it all on a bequest to the Society to Suppress Disrespectful Children and Helicopter Parents and the child would have no recourse.

In fact (which is not to say "in fairy tales"), there are plenty of children who deserve to be disinherited. Refusing to continue the family line due to a lack of maturity, responsibility and filial respect is the last straw for some of us and requires no further justification.

"filial respect" you don't seem to respect your children, which is your right of course, but why should they respect someone who has such distain for them?

 

[Aerides]

Refusing to continue the family line due to a lack of maturity, responsibility and filial respect is the last straw for some of us and requires no further justification.

One might think that people who lack maturity and responsibility are ill suited to raise children.
I shudder to think how many kids were brought into this world purely for the sake of saving financial inheritance.

Can you imagine being that child? "We didn't want you but Grandpa would have cut us off" ... yikes.

I'm sure, however, there are far more complexities involved. The "last straw" should not, however, be anchored to creating unwanted children, IMO.

 

[Ian S]

As a gay man, I'll add my perspective. When I was young, adoption - the only option for gay male couples wanting children - was generally impossible. Even today, many jurisdictions do everything they can to prevent gay couples from adopting - guess they'd rather the kids grow up without parents than be in a family with two moms or two dads. Even with marriage equality the law of the land, states try to put roadblocks into cementing the relationship between legally married same-sex couples. An example is a law in Arkansas that required the legal wife of the birth mother to adopt the baby to have her name appear on the birth certificate whereas a husband's name on the b.c. would have been automatic. The SCOTUS wisely struck down that law just last month.

I often wonder what life would have been like with children. I think my partner and I would have made good parents but who could know for sure. I certainly would not have had the luxury to leave a secure job to become an entrepreneur but as others have shown there are pluses and minuses to having children. Regarding those commenters who would disinherit their children for opting to remain childless, I have to wonder how encouraging those same commenters would have been had their children been in same-sex relationships and wanting to adopt.

 

[candrew]

I grew up seeing more a few folks raising their grandchildren not by choice but by necessity, and can name a dozen friends/acquaintances who currently are raising their grandchildren and have additional stress with little or no hope of retiring or even slowing things down. Personally this is a not a situation I would choose to be in, particularly just for the sake of having grandchildren.

I leave it totally up to my kids as to if they choose to have kids - the only caveat we give them is "Other than via a tragedy, Mom and Dad are not here to raise any of your kids, that will be your job".

+1

DW is a retired public school teacher. Over the years she began to witness an increasing prevalence of what you describe - grandparents placed in the role of having to raise their grandchildren. Many of these cases involved parents with substance abuse issues. In some instances, the kids were removed by the courts. In others, the grandparents stepped in and took the kids themselves.

DW related a story to me from a first grade classroom she had several years ago. Some of the students were sharing with one another about their parent(s) or another relative being incarcerated. DW asked by a show of hands how many of the kids had a family member in jail. More than half put their hands up.

Ugh.

 

[Which Roger]

Everybody's different, and we need to respect differences. Regarding children, my experience is that people more-or-less fall into 4 different buckets:

1. Wired to want children and can't picture not having them.
2. Take it or leave it - if the kids come along, fine. If not, also fine (I do not have children, and I have always felt this way).
3. Absolutely no desire to have children.
4. Want children but are unable to reproduce.

Ex-MIL made it clear that she was in category 1, and drove ex-wife and I, who both were in category 2, crazy by making her desire for grandchildren very clear at every opportunity.

When a co-worker learned that I was getting married to current DW, he congratulated me, then immediately asked if we would have kids. I said something like "probably not". His response was "You should. It's your duty". I should have smacked him, but instead let it go, but never felt the same about him after that. He was making assumptions about my situation, and also not-so-subtly telling me that his values were correct and mine weren't.

 

[ivinsfan]

I get the list, but have a problem understanding number 2.....that's pretty passive for a life long huge impact decision. Now I know a few married couples that already had a kid or two and had a unplanned pregnancy ..and that was like well, what's one more. But I couldn't see being that ambivalent about the first baby.

 

[aja8888]

My cousin is one of those, living off his fathers trust fund, since he never had a "real" job. And my cousin told me how he is just waiting for dear dad to die, so he can hire a lawyer to break the trust as "it's my money" he said.

His dear dad is 96, so I hope he lives to 126.

DW's (my second wife) daughter is married to this cousin's long lost twin.