I don't like all the electronics in a new car. They're more expensive to fix and more complicated to drive with. I like electric windows, radio/stereo. I don't like remote keys or the screen that shows you backing up. Too much is too confusing. Every little electronic thing that breaks costs more money and hassle down the road. Can I get a new car that's totally simple?
Best Place to Buy a Used Car
- Thread starter Rianne
- Start date
38Chevy454
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Unfortunately, many of the kind of items you listed are required by gov't. So your option is find a used car that is around 5 years old or just accept the new car electronics. Even 5 year old cars have a lot of electronics, but will have a real key to start (most likely) and won't have the back-up screen.
OldShooter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I have been in that camp and largely still am. The backup screen, in particular, looked like another idiot government requirement with limited value.
Now, having bought a car that came with the screen, I am sold on it. Quite astonished to be sold, but sold nevertheless. Backing in parking lots it is especially valuable because I can see well before running into a car that might be trying to sneak by behind me. I still don't think it is the government's business to require something that probably has minimal cost-effectiveness but I am also still happy to have that particular gadget.
GPS, fancy self-driving features, internet spying on me, ... not so much.
The electronic safety equipment (esp airbags, but also traction control, etc) adds considerably to the cost of ownership. They seldom break and don't add a lot to the price of new car, but they can add a >lot< to the cost of a routine fender-bender. As a result, they also significantly increase the some types of insurance coverage.
I wouldn't want to do without some of these, but they do add to the cost of operating a vehicle. They surely reduce other costs (medical, lost wages, disabilities, etc)
I wouldn't want to do without some of these, but they do add to the cost of operating a vehicle. They surely reduce other costs (medical, lost wages, disabilities, etc)
athena53
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- May 11, 2014
- Messages
- 7,383
Don't forget the "black box" that's now hidden in cars. I HATE that idea even though I suppose it could be used in my defense in the case of a serious accident. It's not optional and was quietly built into cars whether the buyers wanted it or not.
All those fancy electronic features have become major income streams for the manufacturers- compare the cost of duplicating a simple metal key at your local hardware store to replacing a remote key.
My strategy is to wait until the end of the model year and purchase the previous year vehicle in mid November to mid December. The 3k to 4K that is saved can bring a car price closer to a one year old certified vehicle.
I currently drive a 2008 Honda Accord with $136,000 miles so my vehicle may be around for a while.
I currently drive a 2008 Honda Accord with $136,000 miles so my vehicle may be around for a while.
Winemaker
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Cars used to be machines that you could buy, service, maintain and get 2 decades of use. Newer cars are getting more and more technology, chips, microprocessors, sensors, and the jury is still out on their reliability.
I was bringing home 2 6 gallon carboys of new wine in my extended cab Colorado a few years back, when 1 carboy decided to crack and spill it's contents on the floor. While I was laughing/crying trying to get home while leaving a trail of merlot from the bottom of the door. I barely got home when the computer under the drivers seat got drunk/piflicated/ soaked and quit. It was an insurable loss.
I was bringing home 2 6 gallon carboys of new wine in my extended cab Colorado a few years back, when 1 carboy decided to crack and spill it's contents on the floor. While I was laughing/crying trying to get home while leaving a trail of merlot from the bottom of the door. I barely got home when the computer under the drivers seat got drunk/piflicated/ soaked and quit. It was an insurable loss.
Probably not, unless you go the antique (i.e., over 25 years old) route. My retirement present was a brand new 2003 GMC 4WD pickup truck and when I got it I also bought the service manuals. The service manuals I remembered from the 1950's-60's were one very thick volume. The manual for the then-new pickup truck was FIVE volumes! One entire volume was just on the electronics for the engine, this for a truck that is now 15 years old. Somehow, I rather doubt they are any simpler now.
Don't sell that short. While much publicity has been given to those cases in which the "black box" served to convict someone, if you're the one using crutches or a wheelchair because of that person's negligence then you'll be glad the evidence was there. Conversely, if the box independently corroborates your story that you were in fact going the speed limit or less, then you'll be happy it was there in that case too.
BTW, the "black boxes" were first installed as a research aide to the automakers when airbags were first installed in cars. The data from real-world crashes enabled them to make those airbags much better than the early versions. They were never intended or designed to "spy" on drivers, but accident investigators were quick (and rightfully so) to grab on to an "independent witness" source of information to resolve the "he said, she said" issues in traffic accident investigations.
jazz4cash
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Backup cameras not mandatory before 2018 model year. I see so many drivers that don't look while backing (some don't use the mirrors at all). Older drivers seem to be the worst. Everybody is on their phone. I'm glad cameras are being installed.
brucethebroker
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
I suggest not stopping at a "couple of hundred miles from home". I have flown 500 miles and 1200 (two different times) to get a good deal. Airfares are very cheap. Sure, driving home takes gas money and some time, but long fly in/drive backs saved me about $3000 each. Take DW and do a little sight seeing on the trip home!
Find the car on cars.com, contact the dealership (their online sales dept.) and buy your ticket. Make sure the dealer has more than one car that you are interested in.
I find the backup camera to be fantastic when parallel parking. Also, there is a place I visit occasionally where you have to back into a 45 degree angle space, and the camera makes it trivial to do. This is one government mandate I can get solidly behind.
Dawg52
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I can't imagine keeping a car for 20 years. Perhaps in a 2 car family and only driving it around town. But in my case being a single guy, I travel out of town at least once a month and want something I have confidence in. Six to seven years is about as far out as I go with one. I have a 2013 model now and it runs well. Just bought new tires on Friday so good to go for a couple of more years. May buy a year end model next year or wait for a 2020 model. I have purchased used and had good luck with them, but only new from here on. Not many purchases left in me anyway so might as well have what I want.
I’m also a believer in used cars. I think I just got a great deal a few days ago. Got a 2015 bimmer that is certified unlimited mileage warranty for 2 years. The car only had 20.3 K miles. Original sticker price was around $46K which the dealer still had in hand, and I got it for $25K. The initial CPO price was $31K, which they brought down to $25.9k a day before I came in and I further negotiated to $25k. The car has 4 brand new tires. Options worth $10k .. navigation, M sports trim and suspension, heated steering wheels and seats, lighting package w Xenon, harmon speakers, saddle brown leather, etc. I saw there were paint imperfections on the hood, and they could not remove it, so the General manger offered to repaint the entire hood. Took 3 days, and now it literally looks brand new.
Last edited:
This purchase through a dealer, right? That is awesome. Wonder why only 20.3K miles. It makes me think they turned the miles back, I'm suspicious of deals that are too good. But the 2 year warranty works. Buying used takes time. Buying new is so simple once you decide on the car you want. Our neighbor is obsessed about car engines. Maybe he'll help.
ShokWaveRider
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
No it was probably a X lease car. I probably do only 20k on a 3 year lease MAX. My last was 17k. At the end of this year I will be looking to buy a 2016 Mercedes diesel E Class. I will be looking for 20k or below cars. There are a few 2015s available now. But 2016 was the last year and I want as new as possible. Remember ALWAYS check the Carfax on used cars. You want a completely clean vehicle history or resale price decreases exponentially.
Last edited:
Yes, BMW dealer. I saw the car fax and all - no accidents and all mileage accounted for ... the mileage was real and it was leased with a yearly mileage limit. I saw the original sticker and it was delivered from Liepzig Germany to this dealer. It was leased by one of their employees there. The manager told me the employee even took advantage of the free weekly free car wash in their BMW dealer. The car can go 4.9 seconds 0-60 mph .. fast .. and does 36 MPG on the highway.
Carfax guarantees a clean history on a car? I've always wondered about leasing. My brother has a cute VW, stick shift that he leases for $125/month in Ft. Lauderdale. He says he does not have to worry about major expense, just oil changes. He is responsible for dents and such. He has a dent that he's not fixed, but when he turns it in, he has to fix it or pay high cost. And he has the option to get a new car after 2 or 3 years. On the other hand, I've heard leasing is a rip off and more expensive than owning.
ShokWaveRider
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Lots of lease vs buy threads here...... search and take a look. Some of us prefer leasing for many reasons, the more frugal among us do not. For me leasing has been very good for the last 30 years. However, I never did a lot of miles, <10k a year, that is why I am thinking of buying one for these long vacation drives we are planning. We will still keep a lease car for every day. My lease cars include EVERYTHING services, roadside assistance the lot for 3 years. Any dent or scratch over the size of a credit card is waived.
Last edited:
Mr._Graybeard
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2011
- Messages
- 2,981
I've had pretty good luck with former fleet cars (Hertz, Avis). They sell for less than KBB book value. ... selection can be limited, but if you're looking for an "appliance" rather than a "statement," the Hertz lot is a good option.
OldShooter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Several times in this thread people have mentioned perceived risk in driving an older car on a long trip. Which got me thinking ...
In the early 1970s I had a Volvo burn out an alternator bearing while we were on a road trip. It cost only a couple of hours to get it fixed.
Sometime in the 80s I had a Chev suburban and was pulling a heavy trailer when the transmission packed up in a cloud of white smoke. That was a manufacturing defect and eventually GM paid most of my cost.
Those are the only two incidents I remember in over 50 years of driving. Both were definitely "used cars" but the cars were not of the mechanical quality that we have today.
So ... I never even think about reliability issues when starting on a long trip even with a high-miles (150K) car. I keep them maintained with particular attention to belts, but other than that it is a complete non-issue for me.
Comments? Are people's fears based on experience or ... ?
In the early 1970s I had a Volvo burn out an alternator bearing while we were on a road trip. It cost only a couple of hours to get it fixed.
Sometime in the 80s I had a Chev suburban and was pulling a heavy trailer when the transmission packed up in a cloud of white smoke. That was a manufacturing defect and eventually GM paid most of my cost.
Those are the only two incidents I remember in over 50 years of driving. Both were definitely "used cars" but the cars were not of the mechanical quality that we have today.
So ... I never even think about reliability issues when starting on a long trip even with a high-miles (150K) car. I keep them maintained with particular attention to belts, but other than that it is a complete non-issue for me.
Comments? Are people's fears based on experience or ... ?
FI_RElater
Recycles dryer sheets
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2016
- Messages
- 413
you sure it was a merlot?
In my poorer days, had to buy used; rebuilt a few engines, had to rewire one car, ... it was a pain working under vehicle in the snow even with a tarp under you.
Nowadays, the costs of used isn’t really that much of a discount; I suspect that the dealers and resellers figure that the majority of folks can’t buy new so they really don’t reduce the price commensurate with the prior use. So we mostly buy new (we can afford new, figuring that we need to hold for eight years to break even and want to hold for ten years. After that it really depends on reliability and costs to repair.
Edit:
OldShooter
having had a throwout bealing go out in OH / WV border and have to limp home (at that time) in CO or have other problems in middle of nowhere TX (between San Angelo and Big Spring... if you know the area you know I mean true middle of nowhere).... THEN YOU WILL APPRECIATE RELIABILITY.
( in those days, I couldn’t afford the prices that they would hit you with when they knew you had no choice)
Last edited:
Dash man
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
I’m a firm believer in buying a new car because I know it’ll be taken well cared of from the beginning and likely will last a long time. Two family members who disagreed with me always bought used cars to save the depreciation. They both came to me when their transmissions failed and their warranties had expired. Never saw a dime come back.
I'd like to see the stats on true on-the-road breakdown likelihood by model and age.
When I was a kid, breakdowns on our family vacations were quite common, and our cars weren't old. The experience of my friends was the same. Now, cars are so much more reliable that you just see fewer cars by the road with hoods up. I'd guess that a typical 15 year old Toyota is less likely to leave you stranded than was a 2 year old 1972 Plymouyh station wagon.
But now we expect near perfection from our cars, and people (myself included) perceive a breakdown on the interstate as a terrific calamaty.
A few years ago I drove my 1986 Camry on a 2500 mile road trip through some very rural territory. It ran like a top, like it always did, and got terrific mileage, like it always did
Last edited:
OldShooter
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Yeah. The other thing to remember is that we drive them around town all the time without having breakdown issues and, arguably, that type of driving is harder on the car than simple highway cruising. More engine starts and stops, more load on the alternator, much more work for the brakes, ... etc.
I'm not arguing that a breakdown away from home isn't more of a hassle, but I am saying that risk of a breakdown either home or away is so low that I completely ignore it.
golfnut
Full time employment: Posting here.
Just for grins, I was looking at certified bimmers vs. certified mazda and cerified acuras.
At the end of the day, there is not much difference in the prices which tells me the deprec. on the acuras and bimmers is alot larger than the mazdas. Interesting.
At the end of the day, there is not much difference in the prices which tells me the deprec. on the acuras and bimmers is alot larger than the mazdas. Interesting.
