10 best countries to retire - any been there?

[Nemo2]

The food is fabulous

Food, food, food.....juxtaposed with the 'Why can't I lose weight' threads.

 

[Freedom56]

Food, food, food.....juxtaposed with the 'Why can't I lose weight' threads.

Eating at fine dining restaurants will not make you fat. London has a lot of them. Even the gourmet burgers from MeatLiquor won't make you fat and they are so good. The beer is great also. Our exercise regimen will burn off any excess calories we consume.

 

[explanade]

In my opinion, London is one of the greatest cities in the world. The food is fabulous and there are lots of things to do. The music scene is fantastic. We are headed back again in a couple of days.

Though I imagine people who left there decades ago would be in for sticker shocks if they returned to live there.

 

[Go-NoGo]

Being an expat in a LCOL country is great until it is not.

From today's WSJ:

"Pack Up and Get Out’: Nicaraguan Unrest Shakes U.S. Expat Community"
After decades teaching social studies at a California high school, Noel Correa moved to Nicaragua, buying a home on the outskirts of this colonial city. Then, the country he chose as his retirement paradise began to unravel.

“We were just getting settled when the fighting broke out,” said Mr. Correa, 67, who arrived here with his wife in December. “Now we are in limbo.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pack-u...-expat-community-1532084519?mod=hp_listb_pos1

 

[explanade]

Being an expat in a LCOL country is great until it is not.

From today's WSJ:

"Pack Up and Get Out’: Nicaraguan Unrest Shakes U.S. Expat Community"
After decades teaching social studies at a California high school, Noel Correa moved to Nicaragua, buying a home on the outskirts of this colonial city. Then, the country he chose as his retirement paradise began to unravel.

“We were just getting settled when the fighting broke out,” said Mr. Correa, 67, who arrived here with his wife in December. “Now we are in limbo.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/pack-u...-expat-community-1532084519?mod=hp_listb_pos1

The article doesn't go into detail about the cause of the unrest. Only says this:

The unrest began in April, with Nicaraguans protesting social security tax hikes. But as police and paramilitaries attacked them with deadly force, the street marches swelled with outraged Nicaraguans. They are now demanding that the Ortega government call early elections.

Kind of surprising they even have something like social security in a small, developing nation.

But it only started in April and tourism has pretty much ended?

Some more details on the "reforms" of the social security system which sparked rebellion and violent suppression:

The violence follows the decision of the Sandinista National Liberation Front (FSLN) government to push through reforms to the national social security system in response to the financial crisis affecting the National Social Security Institute (INSS).

The reforms, which went into effect on Wednesday, apply a 5% tax to old-age and disability pensions and increase the contributions paid by both employees and employers.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...i-government-protests-spread-across-nicaragua

However, the system had been raided by govt. over the years, causing it to need more influx of money.

Consecutive governments have been accused of using the INSS as a source of “petty cash”, leaving many people feeling that pensioners and workers
are now being forced to pay the price for the system’s mismanagement.

But it sounds more like a hay that broke the camel's back situation than something that in itself caused people to say "enough."

The protests against the social security reforms came on top of demonstrations the previous week against government inaction and even alleged collusion in relation to fires in the Indio Maíz biological reserve in Nicaragua’s Caribbean coast region.

Alleged fraud in the country’s electoral processes in recent years have allowed Ortega to control the country’s national assembly and make important constitutional changes, including his own right to serve more than two terms as president. He now controls all branches of government, while reforms to the laws regulating the army and national police have also brought those institutions into line behind him.

At the same time, the government has responded with a heavy hand against any form of opposition. In June 2013, during another protest related to the social security system, police stood idly by as a group of pro-government supporters violently broke up a demonstration in support of pension rights for the elderly.

But this time the protests appear to have escaped the government’s control, spreading from Managua to the traditional FSLN strongholds of León and Estelí, as well as other cities, including Masaya, Matagalpa and Bluefields on the Caribbean side of the country.

It sounds like Nicaragua had become a popular retirement destination for Americans and Canadians as Panama and Costa Rica became more expensive and other Central American countries like Guatemala are suffering from gang and drug cartel violence.

I guess political and civil stability are important criteria now.

 

[Freedom56]

Though I imagine people who left there decades ago would be in for sticker shocks if they returned to live there.

London decades ago is not the same as London today. The food culture has improved tremendously thanks to some notable chefs who have established their restaurants in London. As for sticker shock, in terms of US dollars, it's less expensive than many major European cities. We have no plans to move there, but for visiting it's great and we like going back.

I can't say the same for Portugal. I spent 3 weeks driving around Portugal with friends when I was in my 20's (Lisbon, Cascais, the Algarve). It was okay but I found the food to be pretty bland to the point where I can call it terrible. That was in the 80's and I never went back. Lisbon is nothing to write home about. There were a lot of British expats living in the Algarve at that time. I suppose they moved there for the sun.

 

[explanade]

London decades ago is not the same as London today. The food culture has improved tremendously thanks to some notable chefs who have established their restaurants in London. As for sticker shock, in terms of US dollars, it's less expensive than many major European cities. We have no plans to move there, but for visiting it's great and we like going back.

I can't say the same for Portugal. I spent 3 weeks driving around Portugal with friends when I was in my 20's (Lisbon, Cascais, the Algarve). It was okay but I found the food to be pretty bland to the point where I can call it terrible. That was in the 80's and I never went back. Lisbon is nothing to write home about. There were a lot of British expats living in the Algarve at that time. I suppose they moved there for the sun.

Strange, I am thinking of visiting Portugal next April. Other choice might be London and Scotland. There's a business class fare sale right now.

I don't know anything about Portuguese food other than peri peri chicken, though I'm sure that's some bastardized, anglicized version of Portuguese food.

I did watch the Anthony Bourdain episode on Portugal. I wouldn't eat half the things he did, which included broiling eels or hogs in their blood.

 

[Freedom56]

Strange, I am thinking of visiting Portugal next April. Other choice might be London and Scotland. There's a business class fare sale right now.

I don't know anything about Portuguese food other than peri peri chicken, though I'm sure that's some bastardized, anglicized version of Portuguese food.

I did watch the Anthony Bourdain episode on Portugal. I wouldn't eat half the things he did, which included broiling eels or hogs in their blood.

A British food critic cause some controversy by calling Portuguese food the "worst on earth"a few years ago.

Controversial British critic says Portuguese cuisine is “the worst on earth” | Portugal Resident

I don't know if it's the worst on earth but I suppose compared to other places in Western Europe, it's pretty bad.

We have a home in Switzerland and my wife has her family there. So we spend every summer there now. We stop at other cities on the way there depending on the business class fares we can get from LAX. TAP Air Portugal and Lisbon isn't even on the Radar.

 

[MichaelB]

Portuguese food is delicious. Stuffed squid, sardines, cod casserole. Best cod preparations in the world, and rivals Spain for tasty squid dishes.

 

[kevink]

We can afford to live almost anywhere in the world. But we chose Mexico for a variety of reasons. Most expats here in Ajijic are not here for economic reasons; most own another nice home, often in Canada or the US. In San Miguel Allende, most expats we know there own two homes outside of MX, usually another in North America and one in Europe. Again, these expats are not in MX because they can't afford to live elsewhere.

Are there economic-driven expats in Ajijic or SMA? Yes, but not as many as there were 20 or 30 years ago, or so I've been told by more seasoned expats in these parts.

This is a stretch.

While there's no solid data, "most expats in Ajijic are not here for economic reasons, most own another home" is almost certainly untrue, based on five years of full-time living at Lake Chapala and many extended visits starting in 2004.

Lake Chapala specifically and Jalisco generally are hardly hot beds of Mexican culture. The best food, art and culture in the country are much further afield in Oaxaca, Chiapas and Puebla. In no way, shape or form does life at Lake Chapala remotely compete qualitatively with that to be had in Spain, France or Italy or for that matter the nicer parts of coastal California. There is simply no comparison in the food, infrastructure, cultural depth, safety, arts, shopping or a dozen other metrics.

Without a doubt there are expats in Mexico who could afford to live anywhere but I've yet to meet any in San Miguel or Lake Chapala for whom a quasi-Malibu lifestyle at bargain basement prices wasn't a primary motivator. Those who can live anywhere just visit Mexico - or skip in entirely and live in places with the same or better climate, far better food and wine, richer culture and the rule of law that Mexico simply doesn't have.

 

[mexexpat]

I will grant you there remain expats at Lakeside for economic reasons, but not-so-much in Ajijic itself. The economically-challenged are finding themselves having to venture farther and farther afield from Ajijic.

Having a home in US or Canada and one in Ajijic really is quite common these days. While most are snowbirds from Canada or northern US states, just this summer we have met sunbirds who have now purchased homes here rather than renting as they did in the past. They rent out their Mexican homes at high winter short term rates when they are at their homes in FL, TX, AZ, etc. Some of our snowbird friends do the same, but most leave their Mexican home vacant in summer.

Another phenomenon we hear more about these days are US/Canadian expats owning homes in more than one part of Mexico (sometimes in addition to a US/Canadian home, sometimes not). Usually involves owning a home in Ajijic and one (often a condo) at a beach area, sometimes renting out the otherwise vacant home for short term vacation rentals, sometimes not.

We also know several singles and couples who own more than one home here at Lakeside, using them for profitable rental income.

There are more and more expats in Ajijic and SMA who are both retirees and real estate investors. Maybe they were influenced by this guy back in 2010. And of course there are property taxes in MX, however they are usually inconsequential compare to US.
https://www.cnbc.com/id/38309278

The Mad Money host himself just acquired three new properties in San Miguel de Allende, a popular destination for American snowbirds in central Mexico. There is “no property tax,” Cramer said, the properties are “incredibly easy to maintain,” and there are “property managers everywhere.”

“I think that out-of-favor real estate in Mexico, that’s easily accessible to Americans, represents a great buy,” Cramer said.

 

[kcowan]

Many of our well-off friends who live full-time in Mexico, use the summer to travel to cooler places. Often they will go home to visit friends and family and then go to Europe or elsewhere to escape the steamy heat of the coast. Others go into the interior of Mexico where it is dry and sometimes cooler.

 

[Seagirt]

Interesting discussion. I thought a lot about moving to other countries when I was younger but now I'll likely be content to visit. It's mainly because there's such a risk of losing what I do have, if I wanted to come back: primarily equity in our seemingly ever-rising real estate market.

Certainly the ideal for Canadians has become having multiple international homes. That's always been the definition of success: having a summer cottage to escape from the city, then it was the Florida condo or the ski chalet to escape winter in the city. Now it includes a home in Mexico or a villa in Tuscany, etc. But these people are in no sense moving to another country.

Fewer people are taking the leap and selling their Canadian home to move permanently elsewhere, and then it's mostly 1. desperation to escape the winters, and 2. because their lives are too boring back home.

But stepping back from the particular, I think human migration has always been primarly driven by a desire to improve on unsatisfactory economic circumstances: North America wasn't settled by the upper class of Europe, it was the people who had fewer choices and less to lose.

Edited to add: then there are the people who invest in cheap real estate in the hope of making money by selling at a higher price when the place becomes popular. I also don't see this as really 'moving to another country', any more than a house flipper is my 'neighbour'

 

[brett]

When we FIRED we thought of buying a second home. We were very familiar with Florida. We then spent several months travelling through Arizona, Texas. Florida, and the Carolinas. Bottom line was the we decided against a second home in the US. Our strong currency (at the time) and the depressed US housing market were not enough reason for us to buy. Looking back, it was a good decision. Funds that would otherwise have been invested in a second home did very well in the market over six years.

We also considered Costa Rica and Panama. Spent several months there over two years. Had a telling conversation with our insurance broker who owned a condo in Costa Rica. No appreciation over 10years, lots of shady builders, etc. so we panned on that. It was the short season that clinched it. The condo that we rented in Costa Rica was a big money looser for our host.

Only other place left we would consider is Mexico. But I suspect that we will simply rent for a month in two or three different locations.

The driver for us is not financial. It is more about lifestyle. Not certain that we either want to own more real estate and we definitely do not want to be committed to one location for the entire winter. Even when we are ready to stay put for several winter months the thought of owning a second home has no appeal to us. Too many other attractive options for us. We rented a condo for four years after selling our home. We had always owned. Renting cured us of that generational notion that we grew up with regarding home ownership. It can be an investment, but it can also be a millstone and an asset that can be challenging to liquidate. We did subsequently buy a principal residence but no until the stars were aligned from a financial and lifestyle perspective.

 

[mexexpat]

@brett....yes, for us, not a financial decision but a lifestyle choice. I will say this: be it Mexico or any other foreign country, don't buy unless you can afford to walk (or run!) away from what you paid for that house. People will ask, well why in the @$#&*% would you buy a house that you may lose? Because we really LIKE it here. And we are nesters. We did try some long term rentals post-retirement....and we hated it.

Losing this house (and/or our US home) won't affect our future. Worked hard, saved hard....we are nearing the end of our active years and this is what works for us. Down the road we will pick one venue. Right now, I'd guess it will be MX, but quien sabe?

 

[kcowan]

Yes we consider all cost for accommodation to be lifestyle expenses. In Mexico, it is not a big deal, but in Vancouver, it is a big reason for renting. The opportunity cost for a $3 million plus house is just too high to be considered a lifestyle expense.

 

[Cut-Throat]

Queensland has floods , cyclones and bad government
very little in life is perfect .

We just spent the past winter (3 months) in Hervey Bay Queensland. About 3 hours north of Brisbane.... It was a nice Tidy, Scenic place. Right on the Ocean. Amazing Colorful Bird Life. Parrots, Lorikeets Cockatoos. Had perfect weather for us. Very inexpensive cost of Living for being right on the Ocean. I'd consider moving there, but it's a long, long way from our Roots.

 

[ShokWaveRider]

Yes we consider all cost for accommodation to be lifestyle expenses. In Mexico, it is not a big deal, but in Vancouver, it is a big reason for renting. The opportunity cost for a $3 million plus house is just too high to be considered a lifestyle expense.

But are not rents in Vancouver, BC high and somewhat prohibitive?

 

[Alan]

We just spent the past winter (3 months) in Hervey Bay Queensland. About 3 hours north of Brisbane.... It was a nice Tidy, Scenic place. Right on the Ocean. Amazing Colorful Bird Life. Parrots, Lorikeets Cockatoos. Had perfect weather for us. Very inexpensive cost of Living for being right on the Ocean. I'd consider moving there, but it's a long, long way from our Roots.

My brother and his family have lived in Queensland, on the coast at Mackay about 11 hours drive north of Brisbane, since 1994. They love it out there and we love visiting them, great climate and great lifestyle. Longest visit was in 2014 when we spent 4 months living in different cities in Australia, 4 weeks in MacKay, 2 weeks just outside of Brisbane, 2 weeks in St Kilda, south of Melbourne, 4 weeks in Hobart, and the rest of the time touring. (We also always visit Sydney where I have an aunt and cousins to visit).

Australia is definitely a country we could live in.

 

[explanade]

Serious drought there right now.

Livestock and wild animals perishing.

 

[explanade]

Serious drought there right now.

Livestock and wild animals perishing.

 

[Alan]

Serious drought there right now.

Livestock and wild animals perishing.

That’s in NSW. We were talking about Queensland.

 

[kcowan]

But are not rents in Vancouver, BC high and somewhat prohibitive?

Not really. The rental market does not track sales values. Plus we have been in it for 21 years and are rent controlled. Our place has gone by 5x in market value but only 1.55 X in rent.

 

[Teacher Terry]

We are thinking about spending 4 months in Poland but would just rent. I don’t want 2 places to worry about. We like Poland and my DIL’s parents live their. We may do it every year. We would go in the best months such as May-September.

 

[explanade]

That’s in NSW. We were talking about Queensland.

Heard other states are also seeing less than usual rain as well.